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Old 05-01-2017, 05:29 PM   #18601
pocketzeroes
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

What tracking apps are you guys using (iOS)? I currently have PokerMate, which is nice but doesn't do graphs and has no export function, so i'd like to switch to something else ASAP - gonna be a pain to move my data over.
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Old 05-01-2017, 05:35 PM   #18602
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I just use Excel. It's easy to use and versatile enough to do graphs or any statistics you want.
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Old 05-01-2017, 05:37 PM   #18603
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Yup.

Excel (well, sheets, but whatevs.)
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Old 05-01-2017, 05:38 PM   #18604
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I use Excel and PokerJournal (although not sure if that app is being updated anymore?).

ETA: Looks like PokerJournal isn't compatible with iOS8, good thing I'm not planning on updating my iPhone, yikes.

GcluelessstatsnoobG

Last edited by gobbledygeek; 05-01-2017 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 05-01-2017, 05:38 PM   #18605
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I ve tried a lot and I am currently using both Poker Income and Rungood. I find that Poker Income is the best and most intuitive app.

If you want to play with your stats in Excel, you can still export & email your results.
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Old 05-01-2017, 05:53 PM   #18606
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Poker Analytics is prob best if you are into tracking enough to subscribe (can't buy the app)
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Old 05-01-2017, 06:22 PM   #18607
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketzeroes View Post
What tracking apps are you guys using (iOS)? I currently have PokerMate, which is nice but doesn't do graphs and has no export function, so i'd like to switch to something else ASAP - gonna be a pain to move my data over.
I was using poker income for a couple years..simple but functional...most everything you need they however $5.99 you to death to unlock different functions...this business model is somewhat predatory imo and god forbid you will ever need support..its virtually non existent.

I have since switched to Poker Agent..i happened to need support right away to help get my data base flipped over...very responsive and was apparent customer service actually cared...i would gladly pay more and it's actually cheaper

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
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Old 05-01-2017, 06:31 PM   #18608
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by pocketzeroes View Post
What tracking apps are you guys using (iOS)? I currently have PokerMate, which is nice but doesn't do graphs and has no export function, so i'd like to switch to something else ASAP - gonna be a pain to move my data over.


RunGood and excel

RunGood lets you import/export. Just throw in a couple dummy entries, export it so you have their format, then enter everything in excel and import it back in
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Old 05-01-2017, 07:16 PM   #18609
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Since I've been running good over the past 50 hours, now seemed like the logical time to post here.

The graph below begins on March 17. I've been playing lots of hours while also working full-time.

On that date, I began a bankroll building challenge for myself. I bought in at a 1/2 game for $300, and after 3 sessions of 1/2 (and $1770 in profit), I very quickly started playing 2/5. (I played full-time for a year and a half starting 5.5 years ago, ending 4 years ago, so I was comfortable doing this). Details in this post:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...dance-1659594/

I didn't exactly follow my own rules and never dropped down in stakes after my two horrible losing sessions around the hour 150 mark (I had a $1700 losing session when I lost a huge all-in $3400-pot preflop coinflip, followed by a very very ugly $3800 losing session).

I also sat in a 5/10 game, a bit too under-rolled, around hour 230 and quickly lost my 2k BI (5bet AK pre, felt committed to call it off but he had AA), then proceeded to lose another $1700 with some run-bad at 2/5.

My stats so far:
Code:
          profit        time         rate
stakes                                   
1/2       1772.0   21.500000    82.418605
2/2 PLO   2595.0    7.816667   331.982942
2/5      14761.0  255.733333    57.720282
5/0 PLO   1180.0    2.016667   585.123967
5/10     -2000.0    1.016667 -1967.213115
5/5 PLO   -275.0    9.466667   -29.049296
My std dev at 2/5 is $600 (120BB)/hour.


Here's my graph
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Old 05-01-2017, 07:26 PM   #18610
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Your methods seem questionable.

But i'm very happy for you and your results.
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Old 05-01-2017, 07:43 PM   #18611
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Your methods seem questionable.

But i'm very happy for you and your results.
If you're talking about bankroll mgmt... I have some very specific goals for the $$$ and want to get there as fast as possible, but if I happen to bust this bankroll it's not a *huge* issue, though it would really really suck at this point. I'm going to take another one buyin shot at 5/10 soon, and if I can get into the black in that game, it will become my preferred game. I do tend towards a slightly laggy high-variance playing style, which I do believe is the most profitable way for me to play, but if I need to I am very able to tone it down and reduce my variance so that the run-bad gods don't rain too much hell on me. I am very familiar with risk-of-ruin calculations, Kelly criterion, et al.
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Old 05-01-2017, 10:17 PM   #18612
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Poker Analytics may be cool, but they are asking $30 a year for their app. I think that's exorbitant.

I searched for Poker Agent on my iphone I could find it. I downloaded Poker Mate, I ll check it out.

I don't remember how much I paid for poker income, but I don't think it was more than $10. I mailed customer support once because I accidentally posted my session results on twitter and no one responded. Then I found out how to turn it off. Beyond that, it seemed straightforward enough.
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Old 05-01-2017, 11:14 PM   #18613
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Poker Analytics may be cool, but they are asking $30 a year for their app. I think that's exorbitant.

I searched for Poker Agent on my iphone I could find it. I downloaded Poker Mate, I ll check it out.

I don't remember how much I paid for poker income, but I don't think it was more than $10. I mailed customer support once because I accidentally posted my session results on twitter and no one responded. Then I found out how to turn it off. Beyond that, it seemed straightforward enough.


thing is, the developer actually has a reason to care and improve/update/fix the app when it's on a subscription model.

Poker Income hasn't been updated in over a year

RunGood even longer, doesn't even support the iPhone 6/7 screen resolution

PA sounds like it has a lot of features the others don't, like easily writing HHs. Dunno about others but i find it pretty hard to properly document a hand while playing more hands, even if not involved it sucks missing a showdown or something

might give the one free session a shot next time i play and see what it's like. And while $30/yr is expensive for an app in the abstract, seems pretty reasonable for a pro poker app
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Old 05-02-2017, 12:45 PM   #18614
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

People complain about $30/yr for an app but gladly tip $30+ every session, pay $50-$100 in rake every session, etc.

If the app is good and it is regularly updated, that is skilled labor. I can't imagine there is a huge market for this, so the developer needs to set it at a price where he can make decent money on it still. Otherwise he will just spend his time elsewhere.
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Old 05-02-2017, 12:54 PM   #18615
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Using Poker Tracker Bankroll on my Samsung phone (Android), but i am not sure if that app is available on Iphone. The software/quality seems very nice compared to some other apps i have seen.
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Old 05-02-2017, 12:56 PM   #18616
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Poker players can become complete nits with some things.

$10 for an app to track progress? Hell no.

$30 for a strategy book for a game they've never played before? **** that I'll punt a couple BI instead.

I use an online tracking site that I've had for about a decade now. Not a lot of features, but it's free and easy to access from anywhere if needed. Then I DL the session data and use a combination of Excel and Matlab (engineer with access to licenses) to do my analysis.

But you could probably do *everything* you'd ever need or want with Google Sheets.
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Old 05-02-2017, 01:09 PM   #18617
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First of all, I do not like the subscription model. I want to own something and be over and done with it. Also, I prefer if a price is transparent and not opaque. When you buy something for a lifetime, you know how much it costs. When you subscribe to something, it obscures the fact that it will cost 2-5 times more than the price you re seeing. So in this case, $30 a year might as well be $90 or $120 over the product's life cycle.

If you want to price maintenance for the product, that's fine, why can't you come up with an all inclusive price? I first noticed this **** with MS office and I suspect that software guys are turning into this model in order to transform their products into services so that they can milk people for more money.

Last but not least, I may be paying a ton for tips, but I pay more or less the prevailing rate for the service. But $30 a year which is really $100+ for the life cycle of the product is 10 times more the prevailing rate for similar apps.

Let me put it like this. Knock on wood, poker income serves all my needs just fine right now. Their support is nonexistent, but rungood's support was pretty good when I needed it . Maybe either app could have a couple of additional features that I would have liked, that's why I keep my eye open for other apps. But effectively, poker analytics is telling me that functional support costs an additional $80 over 3 years whereas building the app from the ground up cost $10 to begin with. It doesn't make sense to me.

And btw, I am looking at the app and I see some gimmicky stuff about health. The hand recording gui might be a worthy innovation, but it's not worth the price IMO.
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Old 05-02-2017, 01:11 PM   #18618
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by OvertlySexual View Post
First of all, I do not like the subscription model. I want to own something and be over and done with it. Also, I prefer if a price is transparent and not opaque. When you buy something for a lifetime, you know how much it costs. When you subscribe to something, it obscures the fact that it will cost 2-5 times more than the price you re seeing. So in this case, $30 a year might as well be $90 or $120 over the product's life cycle.

If you want to price maintenance for the product, that's fine, why can't you come up with an all inclusive price?

Last but not least, I may be paying a ton for tips, but I pay more or less the prevailing rate for the service. But $30 a year which is really $100+ for the life cycle of the product is 10 times more the prevailing rate for similar apps.

Let me put it like this. Knock on wood, poker income serves all my needs just fine right now. Their support is nonexistent, but rungood's support was pretty good when I needed it . Maybe either app could have a couple of additional features that I would have liked, that's why I keep my eye open for other apps. But effectively, poker analytics is telling me that functional support costs an additional $80 over 3 years whereas building the app from the ground up cost $10 to begin with. It doesn't make sense to me.

And btw, I am looking at the app and I see some gimmicky stuff about health. The hand recording gui might be a worthy innovation, but it's not worth the price IMO.
Clearly $10 isn't a high enough price, otherwise their would be ongoing support and the app wouldn't be essentially abandoned.
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Old 05-02-2017, 01:25 PM   #18619
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Life nits itt.
Go spend an extra hour (a year!) at the table and make the annual cost back if it's a good app.

It might even save you 2 hours of whining itt, or looking for a new app, putting data into excel/analyzing It.

Boom. ROI. (assuming you're making more than $15/hour)
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Old 05-02-2017, 01:41 PM   #18620
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This isn't bloody rocket science. You have two apps which basically offer a gui, some filters and the ability to make charts for number crunching. One costs $10. The other costs $30 a year for the same thing plus the theoretical ability to get support and some extra updates.

You are not a nit if you observe that this doesn't make sense. But hey, if you find value in it, knock yourself out.
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Old 05-02-2017, 02:02 PM   #18621
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I, in general, don't like subscription based services simply because they're hard to keep track of. As a software engineer myself, I have no issue paying more for a superior product, but don't want to have something that I'm being charged for every month or year or whatever that I've completely forgotten about.

I emailed Poker Mate, and was told (1) the data is included in iCloud backup, and (2) developer is planning on a SW rewrite and update will include export data feature. In the meantime, I'm going to see if it's easy to look at the raw data in iCloud backup. I also bought RunGood. I personally prefer PokerMate's interface to enter session information. It's not having export that bothered me. RunGood's graphs and what-not are cool, but I'd be perfectly happy doing any data analytics myself outside of these apps.
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Old 05-03-2017, 04:12 AM   #18622
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Sick brag mr. software engineer who enters his own data.
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Old 05-03-2017, 11:55 AM   #18623
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Last night I passed the 5k threshold. I can totally play like a donk now cuz I'm rich.
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Old 05-03-2017, 08:26 PM   #18624
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Last night I passed the 5k threshold. I can totally play like a donk now cuz I'm rich.


Very nice job building back up.

We never doubted you.
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Old 05-03-2017, 10:24 PM   #18625
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

<~~~~~ n00b.

Anyone have long term success, and feel like nothing's missing by just keeping a plain vanilla spreadsheet with W/L, hours, and date information ? Getting back into the swing and this is all I used when I was playing full time.

I get that I can...work out pie charts and standard deviations and other whirligigs, but I like to KIS. Trying to figure out if I'm just lazy and if there's some real value to the more granular approach that I'm missing, or if it's really just personal preference.
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