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Old 02-17-2017, 10:14 PM   #18151
KatoKrazy
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I would bet my entire life on the fact that no one has ever made 100k a year playing 2/5 live. Period. Regardless of hours, game selection, deeper games, it's never been done.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:14 PM   #18152
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You guys could easily crush IT for 6 figures, especially in today's economy. Technology changes so rapidly, and it's a rare thing among general society to find people with the temperament to not only adapt to the changing landscape, but to thrive in it.
It's not about money. It's about financial freedom. And they are so very different. I'd take 70k a year as a pro poker player over 100k a year in IT, and that's coming from someone who did 3 years of IT at university. I don't look at poker as a means to "earn a living" but more as a way to escape the rat race and refusing to subscribe to the traditional 9-5 as a lifestyle choice.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:19 PM   #18153
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Originally Posted by JonnyMay View Post
I would bet my entire life on the fact that no one has ever made 100k a year playing 2/5 live. Period. Regardless of hours, game selection, deeper games, it's never been done.

You lose this bet so bad it's not even close man .

A good number of people do it that I know personally in Vegas including myself .

I've made 10k in a week before playing 2/5. (1k to 1500 max)
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:10 PM   #18154
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I agree with you that people clearing 80k are <1% absolutely.

But if you put a guy like Alec Torelli or Bart Hanson, Doug Polk, or any low stakes+ NLH player who has successfully transitioned to the live game, i.e. someone who understands NLH on a very deep level, put them in a deep 2/5, tell them to play 50 hours a week, and even with neutral variance, they can clear 100k. I don't think you understand how big standard deviation in terms of $ is for a 2500 hour year for a 2/5 player. Someone who plays 2500 hours a year with a 6bb/hr win rate who simply runs well for 2500 hours can clear 100k v easily.

Note I'm not saying making 100k at 2/5 is v easy. I'm saying it could be for the right person, not gen pop.
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:22 PM   #18155
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In a week sure. Any 365 day sample, any calendar year, just not possible. The good number of people you know are full of it as are you. 80k a year is maybe <1% of all 2/5 players across the country. But please, humor me on how many hrs a week you play and how deep your game is. The variance and pace of play make this impossible. You prObably do crush it, but there's no way a live 2/5 grinder playing only 2/5 clears 6figs. Uncapped game or not, it's just silly. Just stop

I have no interest in a dick swinging contest .

But this guy is definitely wrong about it being impossible . Tough sure but definitely attainable.

Again think what you want makes no difference to me . Fact is there are dozens of people that do it ever year if not more
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:23 PM   #18156
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In a week sure. Any 365 day sample, any calendar year, just not possible. The good number of people you know are full of it as are you. 80k a year is maybe <1% of all 2/5 players across the country. But please, humor me on how many hrs a week you play and how deep your game is. The variance and pace of play make this impossible. You prObably do crush it, but there's no way a live 2/5 grinder playing only 2/5 clears 6figs. Uncapped game or not, it's just silly. Just stop
The variance makes it more likely for people to have a 100k year, not less.
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:25 PM   #18157
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there has never once been anyone who's ran either sunrun or neutral to do this. Nobody, in any year ever.
Your ignorance and hyperbole is unreal this has to be a troll lol
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:50 PM   #18158
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I realize that, but they still aren't making 100k a year. 80 I could maybe imagine. There's one player in my local room who is regarded by many including myself as the best 2/5 player at Foxwoods (now plays at twin river). Plays only 2/5 everyday year in and year out. He crushes, is tremendous hand reader and very aggressive. He said his best year was 75k. He's played for maybe 15 years professionally.
A northeast grinder can make 75k but LA or Vegas grinders can't clear 100?? Please gtfo man you're starting to make yourself look dumb .

It's not common it's not average bUT it is 100 percent done every year
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Old 02-18-2017, 12:38 AM   #18159
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Jonny, stop posting. Re-read the posting rules intro to this thread.

Others, stop responding when you think someone is trolling. Just hit the report button.
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Old 02-18-2017, 12:45 AM   #18160
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It's not about money. It's about financial freedom. And they are so very different. I'd take 70k a year as a pro poker player over 100k a year in IT, and that's coming from someone who did 3 years of IT at university. I don't look at poker as a means to "earn a living" but more as a way to escape the rat race and refusing to subscribe to the traditional 9-5 as a lifestyle choice.
Saying you have 3 years uni is like saying you read Super System.

Speaking from personal experience, the rat race is what you make it. You can focus on turning the crank or innovating. But thinking that grinding out 70k in poker is somehow not a rat race is naive.
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Old 02-18-2017, 12:46 AM   #18161
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Jonny, stop posting. Re-read the posting rules intro to this thread.

Others, stop responding when you think someone is trolling. Just hit the report button.
He's not trolling, that's the thing.
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Old 02-18-2017, 12:50 AM   #18162
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Saying you have 3 years uni is like saying you read Super System.

Speaking from personal experience, the rat race is what you make it. You can focus on turning the crank or innovating. But thinking that grinding out 70k in poker is somehow not a rat race is naive.
How do you innovate in a 9-5 working for someone else? I'm not saying playing poker 50 hours a week to earn 70k is fun or is easy or breezy. Obv it's a grind. But it's a grind you opt into on your own terms and get out what you put in. In the corporate world, it's always someone else calling the shots. Ofc there's a difference between earning a 100k salary at an IT firm and then being an entrepreneur or freelancer or even a contractor to a degree. Each of these things has varying degrees of financial freedom attached to it.
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Old 02-18-2017, 12:53 AM   #18163
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Not at 2/5 nl they can't. 2/5 NL is super soft on the northeast also FYI
I can guarantee you there are some guys playing 2/5 right now that "could" make $100K in one year. It may be 1% of players but it can be done. Is it being done? Probably not by more than a handful of guys but its because they dont play enough hours, not because it cant be done.

At 40 hours/wk with no vacations you can hit $100,000 by making $48/hr. You seriously think that's impossible? I know for a fact its not.

Someone could hit $100,000 by making $40/hr if they were willing to play 48 hrs/week.
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Old 02-18-2017, 01:05 AM   #18164
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NOW he's trolling.
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Old 02-18-2017, 01:13 AM   #18165
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How do you innovate in a 9-5 working for someone else? I'm not saying playing poker 50 hours a week to earn 70k is fun or is easy or breezy. Obv it's a grind. But it's a grind you opt into on your own terms and get out what you put in. In the corporate world, it's always someone else calling the shots. Ofc there's a difference between earning a 100k salary at an IT firm and then being an entrepreneur or freelancer or even a contractor to a degree. Each of these things has varying degrees of financial freedom attached to it.
Because you choose who you work for, and you chose your own path. Doesnt matter if you work for yourself or someone else...if you aren't innovating, you aren't thriving in my field.

I'm not saying everyone in my field isn't in the rat race. Most certainly are. But they lack the qualities to which I alluded earlier. Your mindset seems to be the same as theirs, which makes me question if you are truly capable of seeing poker for what it really is, and have honestly weighed the opportunity costs. Weighing opportunity as a 9-5 grind is extremely short sighted.
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Old 02-18-2017, 01:14 AM   #18166
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Not at 2/5 nl they can't. 2/5 NL is super soft on the northeast also FYI
There are people out there with 10bb/he won rates.. that's already 102k 40 hours a week, in Canada I also think winnings are tax free?
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Old 02-18-2017, 01:22 AM   #18167
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NOW he's trolling.
He's still not trolling, that's the thing.
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Old 02-18-2017, 01:51 AM   #18168
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Editing for the mods, don't want to respond to the turd.
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Old 02-18-2017, 05:32 AM   #18169
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well i came in here for some advice on moving up but i guess my current winrate is probably related to the whole "cant beat 7 bb/hr" thing. Im currently sitting on $12k BR. Around 80-90% of my profit just goes back into my BR, i dont really need the money for anything (wife disagrees lol). Started really tryharding live and playing semi regularly (about 5 hours per week) beginning of 2016. Played mostly 1/2 or 1/3, 288 hours, $28.37/hr I also min cashed in 2/2 tourneys for $390 in profit lolz.

Accounting for just 1/2 and 1/3 im at $30.13/hr in 230 hours. At 2/5 im at $31.96/hr in 34 hours. remaining hours are $5.95/hr 23 hours at 4/8 and 8/16 limit. Its extremely likely the winrate is unsustainable, but i can at least be pretty confident i can beat the game at $15/hr.

So i had planned to move up to 2/5, and in fact I did play about 30 hours of 2/5 in vegas with success, but the local casino that opened is running $1/3 $500, which seems like it plays like a 2/5 game. The next level up is 2/5 $1k. Im sort of thinking with my BR and winrate, i should feel confident moving up (although ive been told 20 buyins which would be $20k BR)

The other thing that has deterred me from moving up is I have been demolishing the 1/3 game at the new casino. Only 52 hours, but im at $63.91/hr, and thats despite the game having an effective $7 rake (5+2 with no promos since it just opened). My one session at 2/5 the game seemed a good amount tougher, and im thinking maybe it makes sense, lots of players who havent ever really had a local casino and they are playing the lowest stakes of course, so maybe I should stay at 1/3 and vacuum up all the new player money until the 1/3 game isnt so soft.

Downside of that strategy is it delays my move up in stakes, and I feel like im at a point where im not learning much at 1/3.

So basically the question is...move up to 2/5/$1k?

Pros: theoretically higher achievable winrate. I semi have the BR for it. Learning(?). Long term maybe preps me for 5/10 if i do well at 2/5. Maybe the massive winrate at 1/3 new casino is either also available at 2/5, or just me reading too much into variance

Cons: At least in the 30 hours i played in vegas, i noticed i have a much worse feel for bet sizes that tend to get called vs folded, so id expect at least some loss of winrate from asjustments such as these in short term. Possibly missing out on epically free money at 1/3. Semi dont have the BR for it. Havent really played a whole lot at the $500 buyin level, so maybe moving to $1k after only about 90 hours at $500 buyin is a fast jump.
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Old 02-18-2017, 06:18 AM   #18170
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well i came in here for some advice on moving up but i guess my current winrate is probably related to the whole "cant beat 7 bb/hr" thing. Im currently sitting on $12k BR. Around 80-90% of my profit just goes back into my BR, i dont really need the money for anything (wife disagrees lol). Started really tryharding live and playing semi regularly (about 5 hours per week) beginning of 2016. Played mostly 1/2 or 1/3, 288 hours, $28.37/hr I also min cashed in 2/2 tourneys for $390 in profit lolz.

Accounting for just 1/2 and 1/3 im at $30.13/hr in 230 hours. At 2/5 im at $31.96/hr in 34 hours. remaining hours are $5.95/hr 23 hours at 4/8 and 8/16 limit. Its extremely likely the winrate is unsustainable, but i can at least be pretty confident i can beat the game at $15/hr.

So i had planned to move up to 2/5, and in fact I did play about 30 hours of 2/5 in vegas with success, but the local casino that opened is running $1/3 $500, which seems like it plays like a 2/5 game. The next level up is 2/5 $1k. Im sort of thinking with my BR and winrate, i should feel confident moving up (although ive been told 20 buyins which would be $20k BR)

The other thing that has deterred me from moving up is I have been demolishing the 1/3 game at the new casino. Only 52 hours, but im at $63.91/hr, and thats despite the game having an effective $7 rake (5+2 with no promos since it just opened). My one session at 2/5 the game seemed a good amount tougher, and im thinking maybe it makes sense, lots of players who havent ever really had a local casino and they are playing the lowest stakes of course, so maybe I should stay at 1/3 and vacuum up all the new player money until the 1/3 game isnt so soft.

Downside of that strategy is it delays my move up in stakes, and I feel like im at a point where im not learning much at 1/3.

So basically the question is...move up to 2/5/$1k?

Pros: theoretically higher achievable winrate. I semi have the BR for it. Learning(?). Long term maybe preps me for 5/10 if i do well at 2/5. Maybe the massive winrate at 1/3 new casino is either also available at 2/5, or just me reading too much into variance

Cons: At least in the 30 hours i played in vegas, i noticed i have a much worse feel for bet sizes that tend to get called vs folded, so id expect at least some loss of winrate from asjustments such as these in short term. Possibly missing out on epically free money at 1/3. Semi dont have the BR for it. Havent really played a whole lot at the $500 buyin level, so maybe moving to $1k after only about 90 hours at $500 buyin is a fast jump.
Why not try take shots at 2/5 rather than fully transitioning? 1 session out of 5-10 play 2/5 rest 1/3?
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Old 02-18-2017, 06:29 AM   #18171
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I always am in favor of agressieve shot taking.
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Old 02-18-2017, 08:25 AM   #18172
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If you move up to 2/5/$1k why do you have to buy in for 1k? You can buy in for 500 still
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Old 02-18-2017, 08:57 AM   #18173
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If you have 12k roll and and are feeling tempted at 2/5 what are you waiting for ?

Also agred that you arent compelled at all to buy in for 1k . 500 or even like 700 to start is more than common I see pros buy in for amounts like that all the time
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Old 02-18-2017, 08:58 AM   #18174
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What do you mean you're not learning anything at 1/3? That's the perfect place to teach yourself some new things. Experiment with something new every few sessions and the ones that work, keep them and add them to your arsenal.
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Old 02-18-2017, 09:04 AM   #18175
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I think he meant to say not enough fold equity to apply things at 1/3 to say you can't learn anything means you are not studying. There is something to learn from almost every session through doing homework, even 1/2.

If you say there is nothing to learn, you are playing 2-3 levels below what you could play and I doubt that.
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