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Old 06-18-2012, 12:47 PM   #1751
SeaUlater
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Well the thing is when i see someone that doesn't tip at the table, i almost never give this player action unless i have something to play with.
So if the guy is a big tipper, you'll play garbage against him?

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Am i the only one like this?
Probably, but hopefully there are more of you out there.

--------------------------------------------

jamest, you probably shouldn't play poker until you figure out why is it that you're playing.
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Old 06-18-2012, 01:20 PM   #1752
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Well the thing is when i see someone that doesn't tip at the table, i almost never give this player action unless i have something to play with.


Am i the only one like this?

I don't understand this mindset at all. When I play, I'm trying to get everyone's chips. I could care less how they act, much less how they treat the dealer.
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Old 06-18-2012, 01:31 PM   #1753
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Here's the problem. Jamest, you are not experienced enough to win @ 2/5. Your winrate @ 1/2 over 140 hours is $6 an hour... meaning that you've only won $840. You haven't seen any significant progress in your game (or else you wouldn't bother asking a lot of silly questions) and you're wondering if you should move up.

Take this however you want it, but unless I was beating the game over 5bb/hr MINIMUM I wouldn't contemplate moving up. Also you seem to insist that tipping is killing your winrate... and if you think it is, than it is. Also, who gives a **** if the dealer stares at you for not tipping? Do you realize that if they did a good job they would make over $300 in tips on an 8 hour shift on top of their wages? Don't feel so bad next time.

Put in 400-500 hours @ 1/2 before you move up. Also, who cares about the size of the pots? If you're crushing the game it shouldn't matter, right? Or are you just more concerned about the short term?
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Old 06-18-2012, 02:10 PM   #1754
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Its good to tip acordingly. Barry Greenstien points out how important it is. You dont need to over do it but don't "not tip".
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Old 06-18-2012, 02:17 PM   #1755
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I didn't mean to not tip your dealer lol. Also don't want to derail this thread any more into a tipping ethics course. Just saying there is no need to tip over $1-3 bucks on a given pot unless it's like over $800
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:40 PM   #1756
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So if the guy is a big tipper, you'll play garbage against him?



Probably, but hopefully there are more of you out there.

--------------------------------------------

jamest, you probably shouldn't play poker until you figure out why is it that you're playing.

No I don't play garbage against him. But i would play hands that I wouldn't play against the non tipper. Like i would give action with holdings that i wont against the other guy. But of course when i play, i'm not only playing to hit my hand so i will make a move if i have to.
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:51 PM   #1757
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

364 hours; 4561 profit. $12.5/h. 627.19/h std deviation

since feb. 1.

66/102 on winning sessions.

not good enough.
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:53 PM   #1758
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No I don't play garbage against him. But i would play hands that I wouldn't play against the non tipper. Like i would give action with holdings that i wont against the other guy. But of course when i play, i'm not only playing to hit my hand so i will make a move if i have to.
fair enough - makes sense. but what if the dude is completely hooking up the dealer, tossing nickles to waitresses just passing by - just spreading the love around. would you consider opening up your range a bit wider to maybe include some more marginal holdings?
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:55 PM   #1759
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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364 hours; 4561 profit. $12.5/h. 627.19/h std deviation

since feb. 1.

66/102 on winning sessions.

not good enough.
This is 2/5nl? SD way too high IMO and obviously winrate too low.
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Old 06-18-2012, 05:00 PM   #1760
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Re: Tipping

I consider myself a decent tipper. I tip on a $3 blind steal. I need to stop that, but other than that, I tip $1 and up depending on the size of the pot.

Here's the thing: I'm great friends with a dealer. When she plays, her tips are ridiculous. $5 a lot. Anyway, we talked about her and I doing a 'backing' kind of a deal. One of the things she said to me: 'Tip less.'

I tipped a dealer after a hand the other night. He said, 'If I was 5 foot tall and Asian, you'd have tipped me more.' I was quite offended. Shocked.

Tip what makes you comfortable but keep in mind you don't have to overtip.
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Old 06-18-2012, 05:01 PM   #1761
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This is 2/5nl? SD way too high IMO and obviously winrate too low.
no, it's $1/$2
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Old 06-18-2012, 05:02 PM   #1762
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How the hell do you have SD that high on 1/2nl. is everyone $500+ deep and wild and crazy?
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Old 06-18-2012, 05:03 PM   #1763
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Maybe it's std for session.
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Old 06-18-2012, 05:36 PM   #1764
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Maybe it's std for session.
not sure. it says /h

i play 3-4 hour sessions, so maybe that's why?
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Old 06-18-2012, 05:38 PM   #1765
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Is it standard for you to win or lose $500-$1000 per session?
$627/hr STD is on the high side of for $500 max 2/5nl so is crazy high for 1/2nl.
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:18 PM   #1766
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Is it standard for you to win or lose $500-$1000 per session?
$627/hr STD is on the high side of for $500 max 2/5nl so is crazy high for 1/2nl.
not really. my best winning session is $820. my worst is about the same loss.

here are my recent nights:

-$200/2h
-$200/1h
-$440/3.1h
+$290/2.6h
+$108/4.5h
+$403/3.5h
+150/3.5h
+$16/46 min
+$80/3.5h
+$274/3.1h
+$204/4.3h
+$559/4h
-$200/1.2h
+$18/6h
+$12/4.9h
-$92/2.6h
-$300/2.8h
+$425/3.5h
+$228/4.1h
-$400/3.6h
-$67/4.8h
+$230/2.2h
+$151/3.1h
+$425.3.6h
+$4/36 min
+$507/2.7h

the two sessions in minutes were because i sat down not knowing when i was leaving one casino to go to another with a friend who was waiting to get out of work. not like i intentionally sat down for that short of a time.
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:20 PM   #1767
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I don't think your std is correct then.
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:42 PM   #1768
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I don't think your std is correct then.
it's computed by poker session logger in my android.

how important of a gauge do you think it is?
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:44 PM   #1769
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Std is a number used to determine your swinginess, and not much actual value especially with very limited data.

I was just commenting that the number seems incorrect.
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:48 PM   #1770
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Std is a number used to determine your swinginess, and not much actual value especially with very limited data.

I was just commenting that the number seems incorrect.
ok. it's one of those things i would have understood 25-30 years in school, but now, i wouldn't know how to calculate it or, really, even care to calculate it.

i'm more interested in upping the $12.5/hour
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Old 06-18-2012, 07:02 PM   #1771
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Unless your games are full of drunks and crazy players, your std should be much lower.

So if the game isn't crazy wild, then maybe you have too much FPS, which could be the reason why your std is high and win rate is low.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:22 PM   #1772
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I had a horrible last few months where I basically broke even/lost money, but this month I'm on a massive tear with a few huge monster sessions (see graph), so I'm almost back up to where I was before in terms of hourly. Woot!

Stakes - 2/5
Hours - 347
Profit - +12166
$/hour - $35.1

Standard Deviation: $108.8 (note - I compute standard deviation as the STDEV of the hourly rates of every session I've played. I know it's not technically accurate but it's a reasonable approximation and the data actually fits reasonably well because I tested it)



2/5 Starts about 400 hours in where the line starts to pick up
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Old 06-18-2012, 10:27 PM   #1773
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2/5 > 1/2
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:37 PM   #1774
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by PokerIsFrustrating View Post
I had a horrible last few months where I basically broke even/lost money, but this month I'm on a massive tear with a few huge monster sessions (see graph), so I'm almost back up to where I was before in terms of hourly. Woot!

Stakes - 2/5
Hours - 347
Profit - +12166
$/hour - $35.1

Standard Deviation: $108.8 (note - I compute standard deviation as the STDEV of the hourly rates of every session I've played. I know it's not technically accurate but it's a reasonable approximation and the data actually fits reasonably well because I tested it)



2/5 Starts about 400 hours in where the line starts to pick up
Your S/D seems very low. Mine's $459/hr over 1100 hrs for 2/5 ($24.87 hr win rate). I'm fairly certain my SD's too high, though
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:56 AM   #1775
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Your S/D seems very low. Mine's $459/hr over 1100 hrs for 2/5 ($24.87 hr win rate). I'm fairly certain my SD's too high, though
It's the standard deviation of my hourly rate, which I think is more important than STDEV/session because sessions are of different lengths.

Although short sessions could be swingier, assuming my hourly is constant a 2 hour session should average $70 and a 10 hour session should average $350 which would inflate my STDEV.

I realize that I'd have to multiple the STDEV of hourly rates by the square root of time to get estimated win/loss potential per session, but I just like to get a measure that tells me crudely how much I need to take with me per session.

It's not totally accurate but i ranked my session win rates and it comes close to ~2/3 of results within 1 STD and ~95% within 2 STDEV.
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