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Old 01-15-2017, 04:37 AM   #17676
Dochrohan
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Up 9 buy-ins, was up 22. Variance baby.
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Old 01-15-2017, 10:07 AM   #17677
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Last year I had a big down swing where I lost $3k @ 1/2 after grinding up a $7k roll. I started with $1k. After this I was so tilted I stopped tracking results and I think I lost another $1k somewhere in the mix. I played through the tilt but wasn't disciplined enough to begin tracking again. I don't really know how much I lost in that period but I think I ended up $10k for the year and I probably played 15 hours a week which would average to something like $12 per hour.

Towards the end of the year I moved up to 1/3. I started tracking in excel again on the 1st and have logged 48.5 hours and have made $2572 or $53 an hour. I've lost $2275 combining my losing sessions. One session I was super tired and lost $1 k. Just a simple note in there is quite useful to give me an idea of the session when I look back.

More accurate data is more fun. Next I'll work on recording more hand history's and learn how to make some cool graphs.
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Old 01-16-2017, 12:19 PM   #17678
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDonkem View Post
Last year I had a big down swing where I lost $3k @ 1/2 after grinding up a $7k roll. I started with $1k. After this I was so tilted I stopped tracking results and I think I lost another $1k somewhere in the mix. I played through the tilt but wasn't disciplined enough to begin tracking again. I don't really know how much I lost in that period but I think I ended up $10k for the year and I probably played 15 hours a week which would average to something like $12 per hour.

Towards the end of the year I moved up to 1/3. I started tracking in excel again on the 1st and have logged 48.5 hours and have made $2572 or $53 an hour. I've lost $2275 combining my losing sessions. One session I was super tired and lost $1 k. Just a simple note in there is quite useful to give me an idea of the session when I look back.

More accurate data is more fun. Next I'll work on recording more hand history's and learn how to make some cool graphs.
Sounds like you have a lot of discipline problems? If so, isn't moving up in stakes a pretty bad idea?

If I was to rank the most important qualities of a winning player, far and away the number one quality would be discipline. You could have the most expert of crushing strategies but without discipline it would be completely useless.

GgoodluckG
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Old 01-16-2017, 02:47 PM   #17679
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Dream View Post
Got up to 40 hours of play, and only $56 in the hole for 2017 now. Holla!
Down 16BI @2/5 in 80hrs. Time to do some math and step down for 100hrs or so. Mildly frustrating.

Edit this is in the midst of a 35BI total downswing since late 2015 (I don't play a ton of hours)
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Old 01-16-2017, 02:50 PM   #17680
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
I hope you savor this and remember it fondly so when the other side of variance hits you dont jump out a window.
Lol heres what the other side looks like:

(2000) 2/5
1360 2/5
642 2/5
(1500) 5/5 plo
(900) 2/5
(2300) 2/5
1895 2/5
(2200) 5/5 plo
(1500)5/5 plo

About 75hrs

Lost:
88 vs A6hh on Kh 8h 2c ai otf for 5.6k total
JJQT and fd on J964 two tone vs 8753 over-suited for 6k total
AAKQds vs JJT9 vs KKT7 I dominate both flushes aipf 7k

And negative six bullets in a tourney : D

Last edited by scelsi; 01-16-2017 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 01-16-2017, 02:51 PM   #17681
flowrider
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Angrist View Post
Started 2017 off with a bang.

2) Suck less at PLO. (Any recommendations?)
Try honing your game playing online microstakes (I'll try not to take all your money )

PLO tournaments for practice?
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Old 01-16-2017, 07:13 PM   #17682
MikeStarr
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by scelsi View Post
Lol heres what the other side looks like:

(2000) 2/5
1360 2/5
642 2/5
(1500) 5/5 plo
(900) 2/5
(2300) 2/5
1895 2/5
(2200) 5/5 plo
(1500)5/5 plo

About 75hrs

Lost:
88 vs A6hh on Kh 8h 2c ai otf for 5.6k total
JJQT and fd on J964 two tone vs 8753 over-suited for 6k total
AAKQds vs JJT9 vs KKT7 I dominate both flushes aipf 7k

And negative six bullets in a tourney : D
Ive never even seen a $5600 pot at 2/5. How does that happen?
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Old 01-16-2017, 08:57 PM   #17683
Avaritia
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by scelsi View Post
JJQT and fd on J964 two tone vs 8753 over-suited for 6k total
This one was super tilting, rest are standard. There is no worse tilt in poker than dominating draws in plo and losing.
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Old 01-16-2017, 09:01 PM   #17684
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
This one was super tilting, rest are standard. There is no worse tilt in poker than dominating draws in plo and losing.


Lol this is cute


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Old 01-16-2017, 11:16 PM   #17685
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Haha I mean I know it's like still a 60/40 or whatever but man I just can't stand losing these.

Whereas AA < KK is just so yawn standard boring it literally does not cause a second of hesitation as I continue to feast on my delicious chicken quesadilla
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Old 01-17-2017, 10:33 AM   #17686
scelsi
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Ive never even seen a $5600 pot at 2/5. How does that happen?
It was pretty remarkable. I open 25, young dude who ran it up from 500 to 2800 calls in ep. Flop goes check (80 in pot) I lead 75, ep c/r 400, I ship 2800 and he SNAP calls.

We both ended up deep I guess because our game is 2/5 with Mississippi straddle so really more of a 5/T, plus you can buy in 200bb @ 2/5
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Old 01-17-2017, 10:33 AM   #17687
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Haha I mean I know it's like still a 60/40 or whatever but man I just can't stand losing these.

Whereas AA < KK is just so yawn standard boring it literally does not cause a second of hesitation as I continue to feast on my delicious chicken quesadilla
My favorite jimmyvjv hand
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Old 01-17-2017, 10:58 AM   #17688
scelsi
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
This one was super tilting, rest are standard. There is no worse tilt in poker than dominating draws in plo and losing.
Haha, V also gave me the trifecta treatment: fistpump selfclap and a lap around table, explain the genius of his play, snap rack up and leave
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Old 01-17-2017, 11:01 AM   #17689
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by scelsi View Post
Haha, V also gave me the trifecta treatment: fistpump selfclap and a lap around table, explain why his gameplan had to be done, snap rack up and leave
Wow that's tilting. I can feel the steam coming from you.
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Old 01-17-2017, 11:03 AM   #17690
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by scelsi View Post
It was pretty remarkable. I open 25, young dude who ran it up from 500 to 2800 calls in ep. Flop goes check (80 in pot) I lead 75, ep c/r 400, I ship 2800 and he SNAP calls.

We both ended up deep I guess because our game is 2/5 with Mississippi straddle so really more of a 5/T, plus you can buy in 200bb @ 2/5
I'm surprised you shipped the flop. I guess you knew he was calling....
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Old 01-17-2017, 11:48 AM   #17691
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I'm surprised you shipped the flop. I guess you knew he was calling....
Yeah there's some guys who toss in a few blacks and aren't folding to ANY raise. He also was in the process of racking up, and saw the board and SAT down hard. He was there to gamble, happy to oblige

I fistbumped the other dude. Genuinely happy for those guys, because you know 2 out of three times that money is going back into my pockets. Kind of a drag when lost 70/30s pile up but what can you do.

I'll stop hijacking thread now. I just wanted to poke a hole in the 6 or 7BI is the most you can lose live bubble
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Old 01-17-2017, 12:06 PM   #17692
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

So 100 hour update since I've started keeping records (which I didn't think would change my mindset as much as it has).

I play way more business like now in the sense that I don't splash around as much. Folding a lot more weaker broadways, aj, at. Folding lots more sb. I think I still have to work on folding more suited connectors and suited weak broadways from ep. Learning how to play smaller pots out of position with tp type hands especially against strong opponents.

Also want to incorporate more 3 betting against players who fold to aggression.

+21416
102.75 hours
Hourly: 208 (all games)
225.14 (3/5)
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Old 01-17-2017, 02:06 PM   #17693
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When To Quit A Session?

I'm trying to find the best strategy of when to call it quits for the session. Browsing through the Winrates thread I do see a lot of small loses and some double or triple ups for some of the winning players. I rarely see 1k+ nights at 1/2 in the Winrate thread. Why is that? When do you guys get up off the table and why?

I've adopted the "lose 2 buyins and leave" rule which seems to be working great over all. This allows me to avoid tilting completely, but I just don't know when to leave when i'm winning. I feel like at some point you will eventually lose it all from variance the longer you stay at the table.

Thanks!

Last edited by Mr.Shadow; 01-17-2017 at 02:08 PM. Reason: forgot to mention
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Old 01-17-2017, 02:08 PM   #17694
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Re: When To Quit A Session?

Welcome to the forum!
I hope that you enjoy your time here.

Thank you for reading through the winrate thread. That also happens to be the place where this question would be best suited.

Moved.

Thank you,
irtm
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Old 01-17-2017, 02:36 PM   #17695
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Re: When To Quit A Session?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Shadow View Post
I'm trying to find the best strategy of when to call it quits for the session. Browsing through the Winrates thread I do see a lot of small loses and some double or triple ups for some of the winning players. I rarely see 1k+ nights at 1/2 in the Winrate thread. Why is that? When do you guys get up off the table and why?

I've adopted the "lose 2 buyins and leave" rule which seems to be working great over all. This allows me to avoid tilting completely, but I just don't know when to leave when i'm winning. I feel like at some point you will eventually lose it all from variance the longer you stay at the table.

Thanks!
Personally, I set a leaving range of an hour or so. I think about how long I want the session to be, but I give myself some flexibility. I don't trust myself in the moment because I have gotten burned playing tired before. It just seems easier to spew. Tommy Angelo astutely pointed out that every session will end on a quit. So it helps to quit better than your opponents.

I also use a stop loss to prevent tilt. Mine is 3 buyins but I used 2 when starting out. I think that's a good number. You're not experienced enough to evaluate your tilt susceptibility yet. So a hard stop at 2 is good.

Wrt to the bolded, no, just no. Variance can fluctuate in the short term based on your style of play, your opponents' styles, and stack sizes. Perhaps a couple other minor factors I'm not thinking of. In the long term, more time = less variance. It's easy to Google this in 2 seconds and see that as sample size increases, variance decreases. But here's an analogy to think about it yourself: If you bowl one frame against a professional bowler, you might beat him. If you bowl a full game, you have no shot.

So really, longer sessions should only help to reduce variance as you acquire a larger and larger sample of hands. GL out there.
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Old 01-17-2017, 02:46 PM   #17696
gobbledygeek
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Re: When To Quit A Session?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Shadow View Post
I'm trying to find the best strategy of when to call it quits for the session. Browsing through the Winrates thread I do see a lot of small loses and some double or triple ups for some of the winning players. I rarely see 1k+ nights at 1/2 in the Winrate thread. Why is that? When do you guys get up off the table and why?

I've adopted the "lose 2 buyins and leave" rule which seems to be working great over all. This allows me to avoid tilting completely, but I just don't know when to leave when i'm winning. I feel like at some point you will eventually lose it all from variance the longer you stay at the table.

Thanks!
Why do you play poker?

My guess is mainly for fun. If so, leave the table when you want. Maybe at a certain time (which is what I do). Maybe when the table gets less enjoyable, or much more difficult. Maybe when you've had your fill of poker for the day. Maybe when you find yourself getting tired, or tilted, or whatever.

Your thinking regarding "eventually losing it all from variance the longer you stay at the table" is a little interesting that perhaps points at a misunderstanding of how poker works. It's all one big lifetime session. A losing player will lose overall, and a winning player will win overall. Session length will play only partly into it, not due to variance, but more due to (a) losing focus the longer the session drags on due to tiredness and (b) perhaps not being as good at deepstack poker as shortstack poker (and the longer a session goes the more chance you'll get into a deepstack situation).

Gleavewhenyoufeellikeleaving,imoG
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Old 01-17-2017, 02:46 PM   #17697
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Re: When To Quit A Session?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Shadow View Post
I'm trying to find the best strategy of when to call it quits for the session. Browsing through the Winrates thread I do see a lot of small loses and some double or triple ups for some of the winning players. I rarely see 1k+ nights at 1/2 in the Winrate thread. Why is that? When do you guys get up off the table and why?

I've adopted the "lose 2 buyins and leave" rule which seems to be working great over all. This allows me to avoid tilting completely, but I just don't know when to leave when i'm winning. I feel like at some point you will eventually lose it all from variance the longer you stay at the table.

Thanks!
Elements of poker by Tommy Angelo talks about this. I just read it about a month ago and it's changed my whole perspective on the game. I used to have a very difficult time getting up from table.

When I start playing passively or just seeing flops or distracted or annoyed or wanting to get somebody, I know my mental game is off. This is ideally when I start to prepare to go.

Calling too much, bluffing too much, getting bored, being angry are all signals to end sessions for me.
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Old 01-17-2017, 03:49 PM   #17698
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Re: When To Quit A Session?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Shadow View Post
I'm trying to find the best strategy of when to call it quits for the session. Browsing through the Winrates thread I do see a lot of small loses and some double or triple ups for some of the winning players. I rarely see 1k+ nights at 1/2 in the Winrate thread. Why is that? When do you guys get up off the table and why?

I've adopted the "lose 2 buyins and leave" rule which seems to be working great over all. This allows me to avoid tilting completely, but I just don't know when to leave when i'm winning. I feel like at some point you will eventually lose it all from variance the longer you stay at the table.

Thanks!
Learning to quit is a lot like learning to fold. Read Tommy Angelo's books for some good suggestions and stories.

The max win/loss per session is related a lot to session length. Because of the games I play in (charity or home games after work) I can only get in 2-4 (*maybe* r) hours a session. So it's hard to post a monster win in a short time like that without getting hammered by the deck.

So I tend to get up when the room is closing, or the table gets short near the end of the night. When I go to the casino I set a target time to leave based on my other life obligations (2:45a to make it home before all the take-out is closed at 4a, midnight so I can make work tomorrow, etc) and I play until about that time, give or take some free hands before the blinds, and just get up and leave.

Otherwise I leave if I'm not feeling up to playing anymore, up or down for the night. Which is a feeling you develop with practice by taking into acount your mental state, how you're playing, how tired/hungry you are, what the table conditions are like, and everything else. Hard to quantify but very important. If you start thinking about locking up a win, just leave immediately.

If you start worrying about how to play a big stack without making mistakes, or are worried about losing it all, go home. Yes, playing deep is a skill you want to have, and should practice when possible. But any mistakes you make as a new player will be greatly magnified when you're deep. While I won't advocate a hard "stop win" criteria, most newer players start getting uncomfortable when they're up about 3BI.
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Old 01-17-2017, 05:07 PM   #17699
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Re: When To Quit A Session?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Shadow View Post
I'm trying to find the best strategy of when to call it quits for the session. Browsing through the Winrates thread I do see a lot of small loses and some double or triple ups for some of the winning players. I rarely see 1k+ nights at 1/2 in the Winrate thread. Why is that? When do you guys get up off the table and why?
Winning $1k in a sitting at 1|2 is tough. I did it 8/168 sessions. My average session length is only 5.4 hours, though, and they were mostly 100BB cap games, and a lot of those were only for a few minutes while I was waiting for 2|5. The shortest session I won >$1k was +$2241 in 6 hours.

Quote:
I've adopted the "lose 2 buyins and leave" rule which seems to be working great over all. This allows me to avoid tilting completely, but I just don't know when to leave when i'm winning. I feel like at some point you will eventually lose it all from variance the longer you stay at the table.

Thanks!
This will only happen if you are a losing player. Maybe you are and there would be no shame in that, but if you are a winner then the longer you stay at the table the more you should expect to win.

I usually just play however long I want. Usually around 6 hours. Less if the game sucks or I'm tired/sick/etc. More if the games are good and I feel good. Recently I've had trouble staying because I always want to leave when I am up. I'm getting out of a rough stretch. ~500 hours of close to breakeven. It is making me play more timidly and making me want to protect wins, which is dumb and I'm trying to stop.

I don't recommend using a stop loss. If you feel good and the game is good and you don't have other obligations, then stay. When you are tilting, leave. It's as simple as that. The only reason to have a stop loss is if you don't trust yourself to recognize you are tilting.
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Old 01-17-2017, 05:36 PM   #17700
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Re: When To Quit A Session?

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Originally Posted by browni3141 View Post
I don't recommend using a stop loss. If you feel good and the game is good and you don't have other obligations, then stay. When you are tilting, leave. It's as simple as that. The only reason to have a stop loss is if you don't trust yourself to recognize you are tilting.
I'd disagree with this. It's too easy for a new player to be un-able to recognize that he's overmatched and that the game isn't actually as good as he thinks it is. It's also hard to expect him to be able to detect all the kinds of tilt he could have.

I'm a big advocate of a forced *break* at either 2 or 3 BI. Get up and walk around for 10 minutes and think about it before continuing to play. Then a capped stop loss at some point after that, 4-5 BI maybe.
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