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Old 01-10-2017, 11:17 PM   #17626
nicname
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream View Post
Jesus, anyone starting 2017 off in the hole?

3 sessions, 21 hours, -$1230 at 1/2.

-600

-230

-400

6 buyins at 1/2, yuck.
Don't fret was break even for the first 2.5 months of 2016, then I lost 9 buy-ins in three sessions. Ended up winning $27k for the year.
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:29 PM   #17627
VolumeKing
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

if you only examine results every 100-200 hours you will be happier and ask less questions in this thread
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:31 PM   #17628
DK Barrel
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Started 2016 with my second biggest loss of the year.

2017 started much better.
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:48 PM   #17629
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Just started keeping records about a week ago.

Variance is going my way it seems for now.



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Old 01-11-2017, 01:07 AM   #17630
Angrist
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream View Post
Jesus, anyone starting 2017 off in the hole?

3 sessions, 21 hours, -$1230 at 1/2.

-600

-230

-400

6 buyins at 1/2, yuck.
9 sessions, 38.5 hours so far, -$78.50 for a solid "meh".

I'm really surprised I've been able to put in that much volume so quickly. A couple of vacation days will do it I suppose.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:11 AM   #17631
SoulCrussher
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

22.5 hours +1674 to start the year
All 3/5 and 5/5
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:45 AM   #17632
Dizzyqtp
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream View Post
Jesus, anyone starting 2017 off in the hole?

3 sessions, 21 hours, -$1230 at 1/2.

-600

-230

-400

6 buyins at 1/2, yuck.
First session was a win but snapped that massive 1 session undefeated streak when I shot took T/T for the first time tonight.

My T/T wineate is now officially -$266/hr. Now THAT is definitely sustainable
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:47 AM   #17633
YGOchamp
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzyqtp View Post
First session was a win but snapped that massive 1 session undefeated streak when I shot took T/T for the first time tonight.

My T/T wineate is now officially -$266/hr. Now THAT is definitely sustainable
My PLO WR was -$200/hr after 2 sessions.

Now that I've logged more sessions it's only -$120/hr
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:55 AM   #17634
meale
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

80% of my sessions for the year so far are losing. ^_^
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:42 AM   #17635
DonkeyCopter
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

1/2, 1/3 900 Hour Update

Total Hours 903.34
Total Profit $50,467.00
Hourly $55.87


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Old 01-11-2017, 11:49 AM   #17636
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard32 View Post
Hey guys, probably a dumb question but I've been thinking about this for awhile I have about 2500 bucks I can risk for playing 1/3 poker because I am a student who will be graduating this may with NO student loans. I know that 2500 is way too small to be an "official" bankroll for 1/3 however I just love poker and enjoy playing about every other weekend while In college. Do you guys recommend I try and save up money to get about 6k-7k in my role before I start playing? It's hard for me to save like I said as a student and I just enjoy playing even though I'm under rolled. Also, I buy in for 210 or 70BB each session and only bring one buy in with me. Please everyone give me feedback on this situation! Really been thinking about it for awhile
Can you afford to lose part or all of the $2500? That's the bottom line. It sounds like you're not really in the position to do so.

I play I low variance nit style, but I've lost $2500+ once in ~3200 hours at 1/3 NL plus come extremely close one other time. It will happen to winners, and it'll happen even more to losers.

And due to your 1BI rule of just 70bb, it sounds like you will be playing very shortstacked (I think higher variance?), won't often be able to get into easy peasy profitable situations (due to often being too short to setmine/etc.), won't be able to stick it out in good games (one 70bb is *so* trivially easy to lose), etc.

Gimo;goodluckG
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:54 AM   #17637
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyCopter View Post
1/2, 1/3 900 Hour Update

Total Hours 903.34
Total Profit $50,467.00
Hourly $55.87


18.62 bb/hr over 900 hours, wow!

Looks like you haven't put in a 500bb downswing yet (or maybe once was pretty close)? Took me ~1800 hours before I officially did that (and decided to turn it into a 950bb downswing while I was at it).

GawesomeresultsDonkey!G

Last edited by gobbledygeek; 01-11-2017 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:57 AM   #17638
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DK Barrel View Post
Started 2016 with my second biggest loss of the year.

2017 started much better.
How were you able to accurately predict that first session will only be your third biggest loss of 2017?

I'm stuck 143bb in my first 2 sessions / 13 hours of 2017. Plan on putting in another 2 sessions / ~12 hours this weekend.

Gmeaningless,ofcourseG
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:07 PM   #17639
meale
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Club re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
18.62 bb/hr over 900 hours, wow!

Looks like you haven't put in a 500bb downswing yet (or maybe once was pretty close)? Took me ~1800 hours before I officially did that (and decided to turn it into a 950bb downswing while I was at it).

GawesomeresultsDonkey!G
Pfft, I've done that already this year.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:32 PM   #17640
Angrist
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyCopter View Post
1/2, 1/3 900 Hour Update

Total Hours 903.34
Total Profit $50,467.00
Hourly $55.87


That's pretty damn impressive. Couple of questions

How many years/months did it take to play those 900 hours?

What's the breakdown between $1/2 and $1/3?

How deep are the average stacks when you play? (A game regularly $1k deep should give you results more like $2/5 or $5/T than a typical $1/2 with $200 stacks.)

Anything unique about where/when you're playing? Weekends only? Back-room games, etc?

Either way, sick run so far.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:06 PM   #17641
DonkeyCopter
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrist View Post
That's pretty damn impressive. Couple of questions

How many years/months did it take to play those 900 hours?

3 years. I have a FT job and am married/have a kid.

What's the breakdown between $1/2 and $1/3?

About 80% 1/3 $500 cap and the rest 1/2 and 1/3 Vegas

How deep are the average stacks when you play? (A game regularly $1k deep should give you results more like $2/5 or $5/T than a typical $1/2 with $200 stacks.)

See above, Average stacks 300-500.

Anything unique about where/when you're playing? Weekends only? Back-room games, etc?

Not going to talk about location but I only play once a week except for 5-day poker benders in Vegas once a year.

Either way, sick run so far.
.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:12 PM   #17642
DonkeyCopter
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
18.62 bb/hr over 900 hours, wow!

Looks like you haven't put in a 500bb downswing yet (or maybe once was pretty close)? Took me ~1800 hours before I officially did that (and decided to turn it into a 950bb downswing while I was at it).

GawesomeresultsDonkey!G
Biggest downswing was encompassed in this ridiculous run, right at -500bb:

Hours / Profit
8.57 $1,500.00
4.72 ($450.00)
5.47 $375.00
6.18 $1,092.00
6.58 $560.00
5.12 $985.00
5.32 $350.00
5.53 $455.00
5.92 $550.00
5.32 ($800.00)
5.18 $140.00
2.87 ($900.00)
5.18 $260.00
5.45 $1,855.00
5.00 $300.00
5.43 $632.00
5.18 $1,940.00
5.55 $510.00
5.38 $825.00
5.65 $908.00
5.58 $425.00
5.10 ($203.00)
5.50 $865.00
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:01 PM   #17643
Angrist
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyCopter View Post

3 years. I have a FT job and am married/have a kid.


About 80% 1/3 $500 cap and the rest 1/2 and 1/3 Vegas


See above, Average stacks 300-500.


Not going to talk about location but I only play once a week except for 5-day poker benders in Vegas once a year.
OK, cool. Makes sense.

So that sounds like peak weekend hours where they other players with jobs and money are out to have a good time, and that you're only playing when you're feeling good. Which is much better for your hourly winrate than forcing yourself to go to the card room every other day and grind out the hours because you *need* them.

The BI cap and stack sizes are also good to support a nice winrate.

Also sounds like you must play with a lot of other regulars if you're hitting the room at the same time every week. Again, good for your winrate as you can build history against specific players to exploit them.

Not trying to knock your results in any way, just put them into context.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:57 PM   #17644
Former Spank E
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Re: 1-2 live bankroll advice

Look, take two max buy-ins and if you lose them both go back when you have another two. It is not recommended you borrow money for this process (which of course you already knew).

I don't get today's efforts to make bankroll management sound like a science. The traditional advice was always that you move to the next level (after the first) by winning a 20 max buy-in roll to play with, dropping back down to the previous level if you lose two of them. What's wrong with that? You should be good enough for $2/$5 if you've beaten $1/$2 for $10k, and if you struggle there you've got the requisite cushion. I guess you could blow as many as eight max buy-ins (assuming $500 is your local $2/$5 game's max) which would stop you at $6k (i.e., 20 max buy-ins at $300 if that's where your $1/$2 game is capped) but that's not what has traditionally been recommended. Stick to two buy-ins before dropping back down and do not stress having the bankroll first before playing the littlest game spread. No one else does. Anyway, if your tournament results are good you already know what you're doing and $1/$2 should be entirely beatable--if not right away then very, very soon. Good luck.
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:44 PM   #17645
StaYSMacKed
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Re: 1-2 live bankroll advice

The reality is that 1/2nl is the lowest stages games so if you only had $500 and wanted to play, it's only game you'd be "rolled" for. If you're not playing for a living, their is 0 point in saving till you have 20 buyins before playing. Take the 10 you have, play, have fun, and add money to your roll as you can. If you lose, keep working on your game and rebuild your roll when you have the chance. You can always sit with $200 and see how the session goes. If you're willing and wanting to buyin with $300 then I'd assume you already have an edge and this post is pointless.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:12 PM   #17646
mikko
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by meale View Post
Pfft, I've done that already this year.
Where do I sign up? Me tooWinrates, bankrolls, and finances

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:47 PM   #17647
Edpoker123
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot View Post
Winning % is a pointless metric. Any of us could walk into a casino, play for a half hour/hour/2hours and then leave and have a 90% winning percentage.

You also stated you turned 2 BI to 10 BI, that's not really impressive and doesn't prove much because:

Either it took you a small amount of time and you're winrate was impressive but over a small sample size, so statistically insignificant

-or-

If you have a significant sample size, in which case your winrate would be tiny, and not proof that your a winner


Regardless, playing with 1-2 BIs and expecting good results will be difficult
When I said I turned 2 BI into 10BI I meant, $400 = $2400.
I think it is impressive, this all happened in 8 sessions.
What is impressive to you ?
I then ruin my bankroll by gambling mostly on tables games like 3card poker.
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:23 PM   #17648
Garick
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

It's not that it is or isn't impressive, it's that it is not statistically significant. The sample size is too small.

And if you play games known to be -EV, then you are showing mental leaks that also reduce your likelihood of being a long-term winning player further decreases somewhat.

It is generally accepted that one has no statistical idea at all if he/she is a long-term winner until they have logged 200 hours, not a great idea until 500 hours, and not near certainty until 1000 hours (this varies by observed winrate and standard deviation, but is a decent rule of thumb).
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:19 AM   #17649
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Re: 1-2 live bankroll advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by StaYSMacKed View Post
The reality is that 1/2nl is the lowest stages games so if you only had $500 and wanted to play, it's only game you'd be "rolled" for. If you're not playing for a living, their is 0 point in saving till you have 20 buyins before playing. Take the 10 you have, play, have fun, and add money to your roll as you can. If you lose, keep working on your game and rebuild your roll when you have the chance. You can always sit with $200 and see how the session goes. If you're willing and wanting to buyin with $300 then I'd assume you already have an edge and this post is pointless.
It's very unlikely that a player would run a tiny bankroll into a regular sized one even if he is a crusher. And if he has to wait a pay cycle or two to save up two more buyins then he's loses continuity in his progression and chances to play at really good tables.
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Old 01-12-2017, 01:12 AM   #17650
Hamlet
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Re: 1-2 live bankroll advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadMoneyWalking View Post
It's very unlikely that a player would run a tiny bankroll into a regular sized one even if he is a crusher. And if he has to wait a pay cycle or two to save up two more buyins then he's loses continuity in his progression and chances to play at really good tables.
He isn't going to progress at all if he doesn't play. It is silly for a new player ( most likely a losing player) to worry about bankroll management IMO. Who does that when they are starting out?

You get a few buy ins of discretionary money together and play. When you lose, you spend a week or two thinking through the big hands and hopefully posting them for feedback. When you win, do exactly the same thing. Add to the bankroll as your finances permit.

Everyone here seems to think not having money to play poker for a few weeks is the end of the world. A big bankroll needs to be protected. A newby should just gamble with money they are comfortable losing.
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