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Old 12-28-2016, 08:50 PM   #17351
Maskk
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete View Post
All the time, but that's more psychology than WR related.


Those aren't separate concerns when considering winning at lolLivePoker


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Old 12-29-2016, 03:38 AM   #17352
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I am curious how run bad effects play styles. I ran terrible for premium hands around the time I was really moving into a profitable expected WR (probably 500ish key hours)--this forced me to work on storytelling, bluffing, long-shot+small-risk hands, and other ways of gaining EV which is now an integral part of how I play.

I am curious if people think that how you ran while learning has affected your style of play at all? I wonder if it is something that solid tags and rocks even consider?


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So you worked on getting better...
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Old 12-29-2016, 03:45 AM   #17353
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So you worked on getting better...


Better is broad. I worked on a skillset that I know a number of winning players/styles never develop or need to. It's the a style/skillset that is the antipathy of the MpethyBridge TAG approach.

It led me down the road of exploitative play as opposed to fundamental play.

And I attribute that move in direct relation to a stretch of poker where fundamental TAG play kept kicking my nuts in.


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Old 12-29-2016, 06:47 PM   #17354
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

hijacking thread somewhat for official 2016 year end accounting.

I played the lowest amount of hrs I've done in 10 years:

237 hrs played: 35 (1/2), 17 (1/3), 164 (2/5), 21 (misc plo 1/2 to 5/5)

-3400 won

I was essentially breaking even on the year until I lost an +800bb pot @2/5 yesterday, AI otf set vs Vs nfd (having had $40 in the middle otf).

Here's what's kind of sick and why it's important to remember sample sizes need to be significant:

I lost 4 other pots of +500bb this year at nlhe. (Full discl: I won one 600bb pot at 5/5 plo). All of which were at least 75/25, as in the above.

If I had grinded another 800hrs like I used to in the early 2010s then I'd be looking at at expected wr of about 35/hr*800=24,400, from which -3600=about 20k on the year.

My room recently restructured their drop and promotions to $5+2. Since I'm probably paying a larger share of rake due to lagging it up (winning more non sd pots), I estimate that 1000hrs of rake = 14k.

So now I'm making 10k on 1k hrs, playing a mix of stakes for about $10/hr.

Now that I've transitioned out of somewhat fuller time play to rec hours, I see that I'll be needing several years to iron out dips like 2016. It feels oddly demoralizing and at the same time, liberating, insofar as I know whatever my expectation is, it won't be realized on timescales that are worth paying attention to in the manner I've been accustomed (taking stock every few months).

With the rake restructure, I'm even more firmly committed to playing essentially for fun.

What's your year been like?
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Old 12-29-2016, 08:02 PM   #17355
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Why do you substract rake from expected profit? Expected WR already takes rake into account. If your room adds extra money for jackpot, the extra you pay, you should expect to get back in promotion money.
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Old 12-29-2016, 08:16 PM   #17356
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*** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Ended the year on a high note. Pretty happy with results since getting back into playing live more regularly in July, but ~150 hours is nothing obv. Hoping to get close to 250 hours in next year







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Old 12-29-2016, 08:19 PM   #17357
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What app is that ^^^? Thx.
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Old 12-29-2016, 08:27 PM   #17358
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RunGood
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Old 12-29-2016, 10:04 PM   #17359
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End of year results post.

Had my best year ever in terms of Profit and second best in terms of Win Rate, albeit 2013 was skewed by one massive result.

2015 - 370 hours played, Profit $15,582 at $42.08ph

2014 - 367 hours played, Profit $9,585 at $26.08ph

2013 - 290 hours played, Profit $14,973 at $51.48ph

2012 - 281 hours played, Profit $9,010 at $32.02ph


Results are across cash and tournaments. My cash limits range from 1/1 ($100max) home games, to 1/2, 2/3, 2/4, 2/5 and 5/5 ($700max). My overall cash win rate in 2015 is 10.91bb an hour

I feel like I've improved this year in the technical and strategic areas of the game, with quite a lot of study via reading and re-reading a few key books and some note taking and scenario planning off them.

I have masses of areas I can improve, but where I believe I need to improve most is in my focus and concentration at the table. I just don't play my A game enough. I feel this is particularly true at what I see is my 'normal' game, my 5/5 game at the local casino.

Reason for this is that by the time I get to the casino, it's generally on Thursday or Friday night and I've had a long week of getting up early and going to the gym, running my business and all my family stuff. It becomes relaxation time and this, in addition to the fact that I know and am friendly with a lot of the regs I play with, means that it's become more social, I talk more and I'm way less focused on villains, tendencies, table dynamics and spots than is optimal.

As a result and in conjunction with there being some good regs and villains at my normal game, my win rate at the 5/5 is less than half what it is at other games.

so this is what I need to work on in 2016, along with planning for particular villains and plugging a load of technical leaks that I still have

Humbling results post for me with my first ever losing year of poker


Overall result is a loss of $5,661 over 300 hours.

Hold em cash - up $1600 over 150 hours (at 2/3, 2/4, 2/5 and 2/5/10)
PLO cash - down $1500 over 35 hours
Tournaments - down $5761 over 115 hours of which....
Satellites 0/11 for minus $2520 after swaps (24 hours)
MTTs 3/9 for minus $2853 after swaps/sales (91 hours)

So all in all, a bad year and it would have been a whole load worse without a couple of donkament cashes in Dec.

I don't believe I've run well at all...definitely not in tournaments and also in cash, but I also know that my game has fallen away.

I haven't played nearly enough cash and I haven't worked anything like enough at my cash game (like not at all) to get myself together to a point where I feel confident in my game. And a huge leak of mine is not concentrating/thinking hard enough at the table and as a result, I'm not playing my A game hardly ever. I also believe that my cash game has gotten harder over the past 2 years - all the worst players have gone to PLO - and as a result, I feel like I've lost my cash 'mojo' almost completely.

I'm determined to work on it this year...to retool myself to understand the different game conditions and villains I'm facing and to ensure I'm playing well enough to take advantage of what I see

So...resolutions

- play cash more regularly
- study off the felt - Poker Snowie, a coaching commitment...either CLP or something else.
- create an in game focus routine that can help me get more disciplines while playing
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Old 12-29-2016, 10:54 PM   #17360
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Originally Posted by OvertlySexual View Post
Why do you substract rake from expected profit? Expected WR already takes rake into account. If your room adds extra money for jackpot, the extra you pay, you should expect to get back in promotion money.
This seems right, though I do think I'm playing more rake than most of the player pool, so I would like to fold that in to the wr calc. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Old 12-29-2016, 11:01 PM   #17361
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by feel wrath View Post
Humbling results post for me with my first ever losing year of poker


Overall result is a loss of $5,661 over 300 hours.

Hold em cash - up $1600 over 150 hours (at 2/3, 2/4, 2/5 and 2/5/10)
PLO cash - down $1500 over 35 hours
Tournaments - down $5761 over 115 hours of which....
Satellites 0/11 for minus $2520 after swaps (24 hours)
MTTs 3/9 for minus $2853 after swaps/sales (91 hours)

So all in all, a bad year and it would have been a whole load worse without a couple of donkament cashes in Dec.

I don't believe I've run well at all...definitely not in tournaments and also in cash, but I also know that my game has fallen away.

I haven't played nearly enough cash and I haven't worked anything like enough at my cash game (like not at all) to get myself together to a point where I feel confident in my game. And a huge leak of mine is not concentrating/thinking hard enough at the table and as a result, I'm not playing my A game hardly ever. I also believe that my cash game has gotten harder over the past 2 years - all the worst players have gone to PLO - and as a result, I feel like I've lost my cash 'mojo' almost completely.

I'm determined to work on it this year...to retool myself to understand the different game conditions and villains I'm facing and to ensure I'm playing well enough to take advantage of what I see

So...resolutions

- play cash more regularly
- study off the felt - Poker Snowie, a coaching commitment...either CLP or something else.
- create an in game focus routine that can help me get more disciplines while playing
Most of your losses are in tournaments and I don't know what size fields you are playing in, but that in general, that's a lol sample size.

This is true of 150 cash hours.

With this sample, judge your results on qualitative assessment, not results.
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Old 12-29-2016, 11:24 PM   #17362
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This seems right, though I do think I'm playing more rake than most of the player pool, so I would like to fold that in to the wr calc. Thanks for pointing it out.
It doesnt matter. Its an unavoidable cost of doing business. Nobody subtracts rake from their WR. All you're doing is inflating your own WR, which doesnt really help you aside from helping your ego maybe
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Old 12-30-2016, 02:22 PM   #17363
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I posted this in the RunGood support thread, but is there a way to remove breaks from $/hour calculations in the app? How do you guys handle that from a bookkeeping perspective?
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Old 12-30-2016, 02:31 PM   #17364
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I posted this in the RunGood support thread, but is there a way to remove breaks from $/hour calculations in the app? How do you guys handle that from a bookkeeping perspective?


I keep a spreadsheet and calc it there. It doubles as a backup, since I lost all my data once already. Most of these programs let you import/export csv files, so if I ever switch programs, it also allows for easy transfer of data
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Old 12-30-2016, 02:43 PM   #17365
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2016 in the books. Made slightly more than I made last year but on more than 2x the volume. Logged ~1800 hours this year but endured a pretty brutal year variance wise which changed a lot of my thoughts/expectations regarding poker.
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Old 12-30-2016, 02:45 PM   #17366
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Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot View Post
I keep a spreadsheet and calc it there. It doubles as a backup, since I lost all my data once already. Most of these programs let you import/export csv files, so if I ever switch programs, it also allows for easy transfer of data
Turns out, after digging through the app, that break time is deducted automatically before calculating $/hour.
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Old 12-30-2016, 05:29 PM   #17367
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+1



Having an ok-to-well paying job (so long as that job ain't requiring an ungodly amount of hours or is super stressful or sucks the soul out of us) that puts us in good financial shape while keeping poker as a hobby (that hopefully makes us a little cash on the side) is the stone cold nuts.



GimoG


Stone Cold Truth right here.


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Old 12-30-2016, 07:40 PM   #17368
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@ volume king

Hours:

I posted a graph in another thread with a decent sample size oh hours and a w/r north of 10bb/hr

My largest volume in a year of live play since BF is 2150.
This is NOT EZ.

I was highly motivated and needed to earn and I really took time in building my stamina. I dont autopilot when I play. Autopiloting and cranking out hours is no biggy...but playing kick ass poker for real hours day in and day out is HARD work. Building this stamina is like working out. You dont get in the 1k pound club over night....you work your ass off for it. The same holds true for cranking out 2k hours of kick ass A+ poker

I have been burnt out for quite some time. I have effectively taken the last quarter off...and am going on a 2 week vacation with my kid tomorrow. I am feeling recharged and ready to hit it again when I get back. Luckily, I am not a moran when it comes to my $ and have the luxury of being able to take time off when need be. This has been my first extended break in a very very long time

I most likely will never play more than 1500 hours per year ever again.
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Old 12-30-2016, 10:14 PM   #17369
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This has prob never been discussed here but should help winrates for good players.

I mostly play in time rake games. I pay for time out of pocket and not from stack. Take it one step further and tip out of pocket as well. I preserve my playable stack by at least $20/hr

Merry Christmas lol
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Old 12-31-2016, 07:14 AM   #17370
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This has prob never been discussed here but should help winrates for good players.

I mostly play in time rake games. I pay for time out of pocket and not from stack. Take it one step further and tip out of pocket as well. I preserve my playable stack by at least $20/hr

Merry Christmas lol
I dont understand the point of this other then trying to inflate your WR... in most time rake games you can buy in deep af anyway so that "20/hr" being in play means notihng
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Old 12-31-2016, 12:12 PM   #17371
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How does it mean nothing? For example you are playing for 6 hours. And you double through a bigger stack. You're stack would have $120 more chips than it normally would if you paid time rake/tips from your table stack.
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Old 12-31-2016, 12:14 PM   #17372
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How does it mean nothing? For example you are playing for 6 hours. And you double through a bigger stack. You're stack would have $120 more chips than it normally would if you paid time rake/tips from your table stack.
And if you get stacked by a bigger stack?
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Old 12-31-2016, 12:19 PM   #17373
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Then you lose more. Hopefully we're winning more than losing when stacks go in longrun
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Old 12-31-2016, 12:44 PM   #17374
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And if you get stacked by a bigger stack?
If at any point you're trying to reduce your stack size for fear of getting stacked by someone else at the table then you should just get up..
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Old 12-31-2016, 12:57 PM   #17375
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If at any point you're trying to reduce your stack size for fear of getting stacked by someone else at the table then you should just get up..
i believe Mike's point was the times that you stack someone with that extra $120 in your stack are going to be negated by the times you get stacked by someone with that extra $120 in your stack

effectively he's saying it becomes moot, which i think is going to be close to the truth in the long run
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