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Old 12-24-2016, 01:39 PM   #17276
Dochrohan
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Higher chance you bag 200k in poker than bag DiCap, you crazy bro? DiCap has a diamond cock.
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Old 12-24-2016, 01:58 PM   #17277
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Mike Starr's prop bet made opening this thread worth while.
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Old 12-24-2016, 02:15 PM   #17278
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Mike Starr's prop bet made opening this thread worth while.
???
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Old 12-24-2016, 06:18 PM   #17279
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Jarretman View Post
This is in Niagara Falls, ON, Canada. FWIW it's probably the worst run/worst for treating poker players room in NA, but the action is really good sometimes.
Honestly, which is more important?

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Speaking of prop bets....I know some guys who whine that playing 1/2 is too hard to beat due to the rake being the same as it is as 2/5 ($5 +$2). Tips are a higher percentage of your pots ect. Too many short stacks and not enough money on the table at 1/2....blah blah blah. They tell me they will be able to crush once they have a roll for 2/5.

I said I could make $30/hr playing 1/2 because so many of the players are clueless and the prop bet was born. I was exaggerating to make a point, but I got called on it so I negotiated 3:1 odds on $500. Of course they have to trust me. At least 100 hrs of 1/2 in December.

Results so far:
118 hours
$5811
$49.20 / hr
19 winning sessions (83%)
4 losing sessions (17%)

StnDev...$124.94/hr

Thoughts:

1) Im finding it a very good exercise in refocusing. I have no reads on anyone and it forces me to concentrate on every hand and find ways to exploit each player in different ways. Ive been on semi auto pilot for a while and I think this will help when I return to my regular games in Jan.

2) I would need more fingers and toes to count the number of people who have asked me why Im playing 1/2 or have looked at me from across the room with a "WTF" look on their face. At least 10 people have approached a friend of mine and asked whats up with me. They probably think Im busto.

3) Actual conversation with dealer:
Dealer..."Im a little worried about you"
Me: "Really Why?"
Dealer: "You're a 2/5 player and you were playing a lot of 5/10 last month and now your HERE?"
Me :"Two words....prop bet".

Memo to dealers....please dont say something like this to a player while at the table!

4) Worst thing about playing 1/2 in my room? The strategy talk is beyond tilting.


Highlight:

UTG straddles to $5. 2 people call. I make it $20 in MP with JJ. SB calls. UTG goes all in for $44. One caller of the $44. I 4 bet to $100. SB shoves all in for $160. Folds back to me and I call.

Board runs out K739T. I think Im beat until the SB proudly tables his Q6. UTG mucks and I drag the pot.

Lowlight:

EP raises $6..next guy calls. I 3 bet to $30 in the SB with AA. EP calls. Next guy shoves all in for $100. I reshove. EP folds. I lose AA vs KK...standard.

Nice. What's the structure for your 1/2? Would have snap taken that bet when I played somewhere with 1/2 100-300.
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Old 12-24-2016, 07:58 PM   #17280
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I know this isn't a popular topic in this thread but I have a few questions about taxes.

Are there any professionals that file as a recreational gambler to avoid paying SE Tax?

I think there would be a lot of cash game players that would benefit by filing as an amateur to avoid the extra taxes. For example, if someone only plays cash games in their home town and make 140k in total winnings and 40k in losses they would only pay 20k in income taxes. If they were to file as a professional, made 100k in profit and had no business write offs they would pay closer to 30k in taxes.

I guess what I am really asking is whether or not the IRS will dispute my claims to file as an amateur even if I am putting in part time/full time hours.

I've see a lot of examples of the IRS disputing whether someone can file as a pro or not but i've never seen them dispute it the other way.
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Old 12-24-2016, 08:04 PM   #17281
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Palmersquall View Post
I know this isn't a popular topic in this thread but I have a few questions about taxes.

Are there any professionals that file as a recreational gambler to avoid paying SE Tax?

I think there would be a lot of cash game players that would benefit by filing as an amateur to avoid the extra taxes. For example, if someone only plays cash games in their home town and make 140k in total winnings and 40k in losses they would only pay 20k in income taxes. If they were to file as a professional, made 100k in profit and had no business write offs they would pay closer to 30k in taxes.

I guess what I am really asking is whether or not the IRS will dispute my claims to file as an amateur even if I am putting in part time/full time hours.

I've see a lot of examples of the IRS disputing whether someone can file as a pro or not but i've never seen them dispute it the other way.
I'd say you're pretty fkd either way. Gtfo the US and save the 25k pa
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Old 12-24-2016, 08:43 PM   #17282
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Find a legit accountant and ask them. Do you really want to trust this to a bunch of rando's on the Internet?

My guess would be that filing as a pro allows many tax write offs because you can essentially write off like everything in your life. If you aren't a pro, not sure you can deduct all those things
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Old 12-24-2016, 08:48 PM   #17283
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Find a legit accountant and ask them. Do you really want to trust this to a bunch of rando's on the Internet?

My guess would be that filing as a pro allows many tax write offs because you can essentially write off like everything in your life. If you aren't a pro, not sure you can deduct all those things
Lol what are you going to write off?
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Old 12-24-2016, 09:03 PM   #17284
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Find a legit accountant and ask them. Do you really want to trust this to a bunch of rando's on the Internet?

My guess would be that filing as a pro allows many tax write offs because you can essentially write off like everything in your life. If you aren't a pro, not sure you can deduct all those things
I'm not having some randos filing my taxes... I already know how I am going to file my taxes this year.

I was wondering if any full time poker players have any first hand experience on filing as an amateur to avoid the extra SE taxes and whether or not the IRS disputed their claim.

There arn't enough business deductions that a professional poker player that only plays cash games can make to outweigh the extra 15.3% SE tax. He can lower his income tax liability by investing in an IRA and 401k but he'd be better off just filing as an amateur and investing in a taxable account for retirement.
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Old 12-24-2016, 09:12 PM   #17285
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmersquall View Post
I know this isn't a popular topic in this thread but I have a few questions about taxes.



Are there any professionals that file as a recreational gambler to avoid paying SE Tax?



I think there would be a lot of cash game players that would benefit by filing as an amateur to avoid the extra taxes. For example, if someone only plays cash games in their home town and make 140k in total winnings and 40k in losses they would only pay 20k in income taxes. If they were to file as a professional, made 100k in profit and had no business write offs they would pay closer to 30k in taxes.



I guess what I am really asking is whether or not the IRS will dispute my claims to file as an amateur even if I am putting in part time/full time hours.



I've see a lot of examples of the IRS disputing whether someone can file as a pro or not but i've never seen them dispute it the other way.

Not really a choice if you follow the letter. If you derive all or most of your income from poker IRS would say you are a pro. Ofc you can file however you like but as you state the Service could disagree with your position and you could ultimately be subject to interest and penalties

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot View Post
Find a legit accountant and ask them. Do you really want to trust this to a bunch of rando's on the Internet?

My guess would be that filing as a pro allows many tax write offs because you can essentially write off like everything in your life. If you aren't a pro, not sure you can deduct all those things

Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmersquall View Post
I'm not having some randos filing my taxes... I already know how I am going to file my taxes this year.



I was wondering if any full time poker players have any first hand experience on filing as an amateur to avoid the extra SE taxes and whether or not the IRS disputed their claim.



There arn't enough business deductions that a professional poker player that only plays cash games can make to outweigh the extra 15.3% SE tax. He can lower his income tax liability by investing in an IRA and 401k but he'd be better off just filing as an amateur and investing in a taxable account for retirement.

I'm not sure that blanket statement re: business deductions is true. Items that could be written off include travel, mileage, parking, coaching, etc.

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Lol what are you going to write off?

See above




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Old 12-25-2016, 01:07 AM   #17286
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Originally Posted by DK Barrel View Post
Honestly, which is more important?




Nice. What's the structure for your 1/2? Would have snap taken that bet when I played somewhere with 1/2 100-300.
$60-$300. There are quite a few people buying for $60-$100 which is another excuse I got why 1/2 cant be beaten at a high rate. Nonsense. Those short stackers dump money so fast it makes my head spin.
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Old 12-25-2016, 01:12 AM   #17287
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Other items, in addition to what slim wrote, that we write off (wife is self employed), home office (part of mortgage), storage unit, computers/cell phone/other tech purchases, Internet and cell bills. The list goes on and on if you can justify it for your work, which is why we have an accountant, because he knows all this **** so I don't have to. Saying that you don't want a "rando" doing your taxes is kinda lol (not to mention the irony in asking an Internet forum for help). Do a little due diligence and they're not rando's. Thats akin to saying youre not gonna hire any professional in any aspect of life because you don't know them and can't trust them. Have fun with that

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Originally Posted by YGOchamp View Post
Can food at the casino not be deducted as well? Considering you aren't allowed to bring outside food or drink, it's a necessary business expense.


It would be nice if you could. I keep asking my accountant why I can't claim my dog as a dependent. It's dependent on me just as much as my kids are
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Old 12-25-2016, 04:30 AM   #17288
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My response is that if someone is expecting to make $XXX by working for an established company that sort of reinforces my point


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Correct
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Old 12-25-2016, 08:49 AM   #17289
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Theres no way haircuts/clothes would pass an audit


I highly doubt haircuts or clothes are tax deductible. I believe my wife has asked our accountant about both and he said no,

The only way I could see clothes being acceptable is if you were something like a marine welder and your "clothes" are like wetsuits or something so different than what any normal person would wear. I'm pretty sure suits don't even constitute, even though it's not normal attire
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Old 12-25-2016, 06:56 PM   #17290
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

The general line of conversation here is fine: Taxes and their implications on playing.

But this is turning into a pissing contest.
So stop talking about it for now.

Go find somewhere else to post something constructive.
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Old 12-25-2016, 07:49 PM   #17291
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The only way I could see clothes being acceptable is if you were something like a marine welder and your "clothes" are like wetsuits or something so different than what any normal person would wear. I'm pretty sure suits don't even constitute, even though it's not normal attire
Pretty sure when I buy logo'd or embroidered clothing for myself or my employees it's tax deductible.
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Old 12-26-2016, 12:08 AM   #17292
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

(This seems like the best thread to post this question.)

At what winrate and hours played of 1/2 & 1/3 would you take a shot at 2/5? Assume bankroll is fine.
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Old 12-26-2016, 12:38 AM   #17293
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Originally Posted by Tbirdx24 View Post
(This seems like the best thread to post this question.)

At what winrate and hours played of 1/2 & 1/3 would you take a shot at 2/5? Assume bankroll is fine.
Like just about every other question, answer is it depends on so many things.

Standard advice for this particular question I believe is that you should get to 2/5 as quickly as you can.

What games run in your area? Is 2/5 the biggest game in your room? Does the money matter to you? Do you have other sources of income?

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Old 12-26-2016, 12:46 AM   #17294
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Originally Posted by Tbirdx24 View Post
(This seems like the best thread to post this question.)

At what winrate and hours played of 1/2 & 1/3 would you take a shot at 2/5? Assume bankroll is fine.
7bbs hr for 400hrs at either stake.
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Old 12-26-2016, 12:52 AM   #17295
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Originally Posted by ZippyThePinhead View Post
Like just about every other question, answer is it depends on so many things.

Standard advice for this particular question I believe is that you should get to 2/5 as quickly as you can.

What games run in your area? Is 2/5 the biggest game in your room? Does the money matter to you? Do you have other sources of income?

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Understand it's highly dependent, looking for general baselines/guidelines. I'm in NYC, so I have access to 1/2 & 1/3 in private games and make the occasional trip to AC (Borgata). Usually play 1/3 there but am thinking about moving to 2/5. I have a steady income, so financially speaking taking a shot at 2/5 is not a big deal. But want to gauge if I'm ready from a winrate perspective.

I used to play seriously online pre-black friday, and am now averaging just $15/hr at 1/2 over 110 hrs.
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Old 12-26-2016, 01:06 AM   #17296
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If losing 4K at 2/5 isn't a big deal then taking shots is cool
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Old 12-26-2016, 01:44 AM   #17297
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Your sample size is pretty much worthless and will be for a little while but if you have the funds, who really cares? Like VolumeKing said, just take the shot.
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Old 12-26-2016, 02:22 AM   #17298
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110 hours is absolutely nothing.

agree w/ them. Game is unlikely to be much more difficult. Go for it.
Most put in a lot of hours at smaller stakes in order to build their finances to handle a slightly bigger game -- but if you already have the $$$ and you are confident in your game, play it. Since you dont play full time it will take you far too long to get even a moderate sample size of 500-1khrs
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Old 12-26-2016, 08:52 AM   #17299
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Originally Posted by Tbirdx24 View Post
Understand it's highly dependent, looking for general baselines/guidelines. I'm in NYC, so I have access to 1/2 & 1/3 in private games and make the occasional trip to AC (Borgata). Usually play 1/3 there but am thinking about moving to 2/5. I have a steady income, so financially speaking taking a shot at 2/5 is not a big deal. But want to gauge if I'm ready from a winrate perspective.

I used to play seriously online pre-black friday, and am now averaging just $15/hr at 1/2 over 110 hrs.
My sense is that most NYC 1/2 or 1/3 games play like 2/5 in a casino because players usually have money and buy ins are uncapped. Heard most 2/5 games play like 5/10 or bigger. I play 1/2 in NYC and am perfectly comfortable at a 2/5 table at borgata.
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Old 12-26-2016, 09:54 AM   #17300
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I play mostly 2/5. After running my mouth about how easy 1/2 is, Im currently in the middle of a prop bet and playing a lot of 1/2. I have direct experience in the two stakes right now and the differences between them and I will tell you that 1/2 is so much easier its hard to put into words.
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