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Old 12-22-2016, 06:21 PM   #17226
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Out of curiosity when did Florida legalize live poker?
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Old 12-22-2016, 06:25 PM   #17227
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

1800 hours at the table doesn't seem unreasonable for a full time player, even after accounting for the other time commuting and studying and networking (which is a great observation BTW) bumping it up to 2500/yr. I probably spend at least that on work related things for my real job. But playing a bit less also makes sense.

My original comment was more about how many table hours one could get while still holding a full time salaried job and maintaining other life balance (I play about 5 hours of hockey a week, etc). After a long frustrating (some may say tilting) week at work, it's hard to put up another 15+ hours of solid A game poker on the weekend.
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Old 12-22-2016, 06:26 PM   #17228
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I just hit 1000 hours this year.

I also have a very generous work schedule that basically allows me to set my own hours.

I would never go back to full time poker again...
I've always joked that if I had enough money to be comfortable playing poker for my sole income, I would have enough money to not play poker at all.

I think poker is a great income-producing hobby for those who work at it. I think it would be horrible as a job though.
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Old 12-22-2016, 06:31 PM   #17229
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I've always joked that if I had enough money to be comfortable playing poker for my sole income, I would have enough money to not play poker at all.

I think poker is a great income-producing hobby for those who work at it. I think it would be horrible as a job though.
Forget those losing months, even breakeven months felt miserable.

Freedom, what freedom?

Setting your own hours is great if you have a stable income, not so much if you have to be there to earn it.
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Old 12-22-2016, 06:34 PM   #17230
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

A lot goes into making $100k+ a year in poker, even more in $200k+.

Lots of volume, lots of good decisions and a lot of study.

Good luck making all these profits while not increasing your spending habits and maintaining physical health decisions.

In order to crush live for $200k+ you need to be a sicko skill wise, put in volume and make good table selecting decisions.

You can't play in a $5/$10 game non stop when that $5/$10 line up is super gross and the $2/$5 is filled with 40% more fish than your $5/$10 game. Same with game selection, are you skilled enough to switch to other game formats? You'll run into often if you play enough at the higher stakes games that mixed games can run sometimes, play super soft with a higher hourly than your NLhe game.

My highest hourly game is actually 7 card stud and 2-7 triple draw. However, finding those games at higher stakes is near impossible, but when they run I almost always play in them over NLHE.

You want to play in super soft games, in America, California has them, but the cost of living might not make up for it unless you're playing the highest of stakes of $5/$10+.

Meaning you need to be skilled enough to be crushing the $25/$50 games.

However, you could possibly make more long term playing in Vegas because the cost of living is so much lower playing smaller stakes than in California. Same can be said of places like Florida.

There is even poker in foreign countries rarely talked about where the cost of living is even cheaper than Vegas but the highest stakes games are usually $2/$5 but the money you win can go so much further there.

If you are young and not interested in pursuing schooling, poker can bring many adventures in life, but it does not come without sacrifice and hard work.
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Old 12-22-2016, 06:36 PM   #17231
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1800 hours at the table doesn't seem unreasonable for a full time player, even after accounting for the other time commuting and studying and networking (which is a great observation BTW) bumping it up to 2500/yr. I probably spend at least that on work related things for my real job. But playing a bit less also makes sense.

My original comment was more about how many table hours one could get while still holding a full time salaried job and maintaining other life balance (I play about 5 hours of hockey a week, etc). After a long frustrating (some may say tilting) week at work, it's hard to put up another 15+ hours of solid A game poker on the weekend.
1800 hours aren't unreasonable, but aren't lol easy either.

I don't think you can put many more hours if you want work balance.

There's a bit of a macho culture among many people in corporate america bragging about putting 80-100 hours a week, but I sincerely doubt that a. you re being that much more productive than those putting 40 hours a week. Your brain turns into mush after a while and b. that this sort of schedule sustainable over many years.

So, IMO not only in poker, but in most jobs, especially those demanding focus and attention, it's tough to sustain 2,000 hours for years on end. You will burn out. Your brain needs to relax and replenish its batteries.
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Old 12-22-2016, 08:55 PM   #17232
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Dochrohan makes some good points. While I wouldn't say that someone needed to be a sicko skillswise, it does help a lot.
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Old 12-22-2016, 09:17 PM   #17233
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Where in the world, outside of the US, can you get regular 5/10+ action? Is it London? Or only in Macau? Elsewhere?

And I don't mean like 50/100+, I mean 5/10, 10/25 mainly.
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Old 12-22-2016, 09:38 PM   #17234
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Probably not going to play any more this year, so here is my giraffe:


Mostly 2/5, with some 5/10 and 10/25 mixed in, 23,900 is from 2/5 at $91/hour so I don't think the higher stakes are distorting the graph any. Obviously ran like Rah, won my biggest pot @ $4600 in a 3 way all in with top set at 2/5, lost my biggest pots with AK vs AQ (3800 ai preflop at 10/25) and AA vs 66 on A636 at 5/10 ($4000 ai on the turn).
Great job! Is this in California?
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Old 12-22-2016, 10:00 PM   #17235
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Where in the world, outside of the US, can you get regular 5/10+ action? Is it London? Or only in Macau? Elsewhere?



And I don't mean like 50/100+, I mean 5/10, 10/25 mainly.


If it's PLO then there are bigger games than that in Sydney every day often 25/50 and bigger

We have 2/5/10 Holdem running every day and 5/10/20 often on weekends albeit that disappeared
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Old 12-23-2016, 01:10 AM   #17236
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If it's PLO then there are bigger games than that in Sydney every day often 25/50 and bigger

We have 2/5/10 Holdem running every day and 5/10/20 often on weekends albeit that disappeared
Not really intertested in PLO. Where is the 2/5/10 and 5/T/20 game you mention? Star? Know if any run at Crown?
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Old 12-23-2016, 04:55 AM   #17237
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by meale View Post
Where in the world, outside of the US, can you get regular 5/10+ action? Is it London? Or only in Macau? Elsewhere?

And I don't mean like 50/100+, I mean 5/10, 10/25 mainly.
Most major cities in Europe.
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Old 12-23-2016, 11:23 AM   #17238
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Great job! Is this in California?
Naw, Philly, pretty much all Sugarhouse. Just 10 or so hours of 2/2 5card PLO at Horseshoe Baltimore
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Old 12-23-2016, 01:48 PM   #17239
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Where in the world, outside of the US, can you get regular 5/10+ action?
In the 512 hours I've put in at 1/3 NL in my room this year, I've not once seen a 2/5 NL game run. I've heard of these mystical 5/10 NL games; are they like unicorns?

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Old 12-23-2016, 05:06 PM   #17240
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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
In the 512 hours I've put in at 1/3 NL in my room this year, I've not once seen a 2/5 NL game run. I've heard of these mystical 5/10 NL games; are they like unicorns?

Gevenifunicornsdoexist,I'massumingthey'llgoextinct fastonceyouslaughterthefirstoneG
$1/3 starts getting close to $2/5 in terms of stack and sizes and action level, particularly if it has a $400 or $500 BI cap. So it can be really hard to run both $1/3 and $2/5 in the same room with smaller player pools as they're so similar. The difference between $1/2 and $2/5 seems more pronounced and you can get them both to run a *little* easier.
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Old 12-23-2016, 05:30 PM   #17241
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$1/3 starts getting close to $2/5 in terms of stack and sizes and action level, particularly if it has a $400 or $500 BI cap. So it can be really hard to run both $1/3 and $2/5 in the same room with smaller player pools as they're so similar. The difference between $1/2 and $2/5 seems more pronounced and you can get them both to run a *little* easier.
Changing our lowstakes game from 1/2 NL $200 BI to a 1/3 NL $300 BI effectively killed the 2/5 NL game. It still runs sporadically once in a blue moon.

More the point I was trying to make is that if you're banking on a 5/T game to be available, my guess is that might be a lot rarer than you think. Course, I have zero experience in other poker climates, so I might be talking out my ass, but everyone else can chime in with how often 5/T games go in their local part of the world if they think otherwise.

GcluelessbigstakesnoobG
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Old 12-23-2016, 06:40 PM   #17242
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Changing our lowstakes game from 1/2 NL $200 BI to a 1/3 NL $300 BI effectively killed the 2/5 NL game. It still runs sporadically once in a blue moon.

More the point I was trying to make is that if you're banking on a 5/T game to be available, my guess is that might be a lot rarer than you think. Course, I have zero experience in other poker climates, so I might be talking out my ass, but everyone else can chime in with how often 5/T games go in their local part of the world if they think otherwise.

GcluelessbigstakesnoobG
Gobbledeygeek, I am assuming you have never been to Vegas or LA.

During certain times of year, 5/10 isn't even close to the biggest game running in rooms like Aria or Bellagio.

LA probably has 15 or more 5/10 tables running at any time of day if you include all of the games running at Commerce, Bike, Hollywood Park.

Have you ever used the Bravo app?
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Old 12-23-2016, 06:59 PM   #17243
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You've named 2 spots on the planet.

Any others I'm missing?

The basic point is that someone brought up the assertion that "all" you have to do have a shot at ~$200K a year is sit down in a 5/T game regularly. My guess is that there's not exactly a lotta places on the planet that have those stakes running all the time.

But, I'll admit ignorance on this as I'm basing this on my very closeted experience in my market. Maybe everyone else's market is completely different than mine.

GcluelesshighstakesnoobG
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Old 12-23-2016, 07:51 PM   #17244
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There is 5/10 in the east coast in Philly and DC (Parx, Maryland Live) as well as Florida (Hard Rock Tampa, Hollywood Florida, Isle Casino)

Of course 5/10 wont run in less populated areas of the country.

Just as an aspiring actor or singer wont want to live in Iowa, the same holds true for a professional poker player.
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Old 12-23-2016, 08:02 PM   #17245
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5T hardly ever runs at Tampa hard rock fwiw.
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Old 12-23-2016, 08:23 PM   #17246
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*** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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There is 5/10 in the east coast in Philly and DC (Parx, Maryland Live) as well as Florida (Hard Rock Tampa, Hollywood Florida, Isle Casino)

Of course 5/10 wont run in less populated areas of the country.

Just as an aspiring actor or singer wont want to live in Iowa, the same holds true for a professional poker player.

FWIW, the notion was that if you're an aspiring actor, you can make it if you work hard.

People are pointing out the fact that there are only few spots in the world where that could even come true.

And your response that people should check out LA or NYC is kind of obvious but totally besides the point.
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Old 12-23-2016, 08:30 PM   #17247
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I don't mean to take the winrates discussion off on a tangent, and I certainly don't claim anyone can make anywhere close to 200k a year in live poker.

But, it should be common knowledge for any aspiring pro poker player to want to make a respectable living, he/she should move to a big market city.

There's nothing wrong with playing 2/5 in Pittsburgh or some mid tier city, but the game wont run frequently enough or be sustainable, so you might as well just move somewhere where the action is constant. If you stay somewhere small, you can only really bank on playing 1/3 as a profitable hobby with no potential to move up in stakes.

Also, another side note, making a living off of rich whales or well-off recreational players doesn't feel nearly as bad as grinding down broke degens that buy in for $100 in a 1-2 game.
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Old 12-23-2016, 08:52 PM   #17248
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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+1

Having an ok-to-well paying job (so long as that job ain't requiring an ungodly amount of hours or is super stressful or sucks the soul out of us) that puts us in good financial shape while keeping poker as a hobby (that hopefully makes us a little cash on the side) is the stone cold nuts.

GimoG
+infinity

This is what I have right now. I get to play 10-15 hours of poker/week and I work 40 hours/week at my job that I enjoy (I went to school for 2 years to get this job). I find that I play much better in those 10-15 hours than any 10-15 hour stretch when I was playing 40+ hours a week of poker, and I actually enjoy the poker hours I put in!

10/10, would recommend.
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Old 12-23-2016, 08:58 PM   #17249
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but everyone else can chime in with how often 5/T games go in their local part of the world if they think otherwise.
I play in a room where 2/5 is the minimum stakes, and 5/10 runs 3-4 times a week, often starting on Friday and wrapping until Sunday. During big events, like tournaments or something similar, there will be a few 10/25 games, and one 25/50 game but I'm talking like once or twice a year.

This is in Niagara Falls, ON, Canada. FWIW it's probably the worst run/worst for treating poker players room in NA, but the action is really good sometimes.
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Old 12-23-2016, 09:13 PM   #17250
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Would love to see the "real life WR thread" ... some much needed perspective @"200k jobs" in the real world.
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