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Old 12-07-2016, 04:32 PM   #17101
somewhat_nitty
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Re: Is this rake structure acceptable?

Thanks for your replies. I wanted to post stakes but somehow forgot. It's 2/4 € NL Holdem only. There is another casino in reasonable distance spreading 1/2 but rake is ~5% with 30€ cap.
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Old 12-07-2016, 05:11 PM   #17102
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Re: Is this rake structure acceptable?

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Originally Posted by somewhat_nitty View Post
It's 2/4 € NL Holdem only.
In the end it boils down to how many pots stay in the very good to very reasonable range of < $299 versus how many occur in the fairly poor >= $300.

ETA: Then again, if every single pot ends up >= $300 then that suggests you are sitting in a very good game (and could probably live with the poor rake if the game is that lively).

GcluelessrakenoobG
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Old 12-07-2016, 05:12 PM   #17103
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Re: Is this rake structure acceptable?

My casino is 10% cap 10 max and there is 0 tipping.
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Old 12-07-2016, 05:13 PM   #17104
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Re: Is this rake structure acceptable?

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My casino is 10% cap 10 max and there is 0 tipping.
Yikes, that's gross!

GimoG
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Old 12-07-2016, 05:20 PM   #17105
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Re: Is this rake structure acceptable?

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Yikes, that's gross!

GimoG
Also 5% 20 cap. (2/4)

Also no free drinks.
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Old 12-16-2016, 10:39 PM   #17106
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Hi guys,

Not sure if this is the appropriate place to post this but would like some opinions/thoughts?

What is considered a "big" win for a 1/3 session?

What about a decent win?

I bought in for 200 and cashed out with 585 what would you guys consider this?

Thanks!!
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Old 12-16-2016, 10:44 PM   #17107
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard32 View Post
Hi guys,

Not sure if this is the appropriate place to post this but would like some opinions/thoughts?

What is considered a "big" win for a 1/3 session?

What about a decent win?

I bought in for 200 and cashed out with 585 what would you guys consider this?

Thanks!!
More than hourly win rate expectation of very good player for a single reasonable length session.

In my opinion, looking at it any other way is meaningless.



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Old 12-17-2016, 12:32 AM   #17108
Garick
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

For me, I consider any win over 100bbs in less than 10 hours a "pretty big" win, and any win over 200bbs a "very big" win. Depending on your standard deviation (how swingy your normal game is) though, YMMV.
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Old 12-17-2016, 01:00 AM   #17109
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Your question really has no good answer.
If you flopped 7 sets, and get paid $30 on each of them because you bet $10/$10/$10 on all streets and get 1 person to call who had two paid, then your win rate is completely garbage and you should feel bad for your self.

If you never made better than a 1p hand, and read people well and picked some nice spots to semi-bluff and laid down an OP to an obvious set and managed to win $300 while still getting kicked in the nuts by the deck, then you should feel happy.


The focus should really be less on 'how much did I win today' and more on 'how well did I play today'.
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Old 12-17-2016, 03:03 AM   #17110
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Anything above 2 standard deviations.

If winning 200bb happens 3x a week, then 190bb win would not be considered a big win.

But if you're mostly breaking even, then 190bb win would be considered a HUGE win.
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Old 12-17-2016, 03:08 AM   #17111
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch View Post
The focus should really be less on 'how much did I win today' and more on 'how well did I play today'.
As related to personal growth, yes, but in actual practice, no.

Same with professional work. Does anyone care that you tried your best and put in your best effort but had dismal result? No.

Does anyone care that you barely tried but had great result? Yes, because they'll think you're a genius.
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Old 12-17-2016, 10:07 AM   #17112
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
As related to personal growth, yes, but in actual practice, no.

Same with professional work. Does anyone care that you tried your best and put in your best effort but had dismal result? No.

Does anyone care that you barely tried but had great result? Yes, because they'll think you're a genius.
We are here to help people play better poker.
So we should focus on the process not the result.

That's a pretty well accepted idea.
And it seems like you're just trying to be a contrarian.
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Old 12-17-2016, 10:59 AM   #17113
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
As related to personal growth, yes, but in actual practice, no.

Same with professional work. Does anyone care that you tried your best and put in your best effort but had dismal result? No.

Does anyone care that you barely tried but had great result? Yes, because they'll think you're a genius.
Does anybody in the poker world truly care you had an up night or got crushed? Other than your backers, no.

For someone who seems to take pride in the Socratic method of learning, you sure have this one way off. The individual is the only one who cares about the process and results, whether in poker or in the professional world.
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Old 12-17-2016, 11:02 AM   #17114
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch View Post
We are here to help people play better poker.
So we should focus on the process not the result.

That's a pretty well accepted idea.
And it seems like you're just trying to be a contrarian.
i think it boils down to the question being a question that is very self dependant. there are just too many metrics that someone could use to evaluate and answer it. every person is going to have their own ideas which metrics are more/less important. those metrics are also going to probably be a function of how much time you play in general. if i play 5 hours/month, i probably wouldn't give 2 ****s about "playing well" because i'll never get close to approaching a point where playing well pays off appropriately. on the flip side, if i play 60 hours/week and have a great win rate but won tons of money by getting it in with 30% equity and just sucking out, i'm probably not thrilled about the results because i would (should?) know that eventually Icarus flies too close to the sun and melts his wings...
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Old 12-17-2016, 02:36 PM   #17115
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
As related to personal growth, yes, but in actual practice, no.

Same with professional work. Does anyone care that you tried your best and put in your best effort but had dismal result? No.

Does anyone care that you barely tried but had great result? Yes, because they'll think you're a genius.
Definitely being contrarian but still makes a good point. IR2M is saying what should be and RP is saying what is.
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Old 12-17-2016, 04:12 PM   #17116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch View Post
Your question really has no good answer.
If you flopped 7 sets, and get paid $30 on each of them because you bet $10/$10/$10 on all streets and get 1 person to call who had two paid, then your win rate is completely garbage and you should feel bad for your self.

If you never made better than a 1p hand, and read people well and picked some nice spots to semi-bluff and laid down an OP to an obvious set and managed to win $300 while still getting kicked in the nuts by the deck, then you should feel happy.


The focus should really be less on 'how much did I win today' and more on 'how well did I play today'.

"Those who know how to win are much more numerous than those who know how to make proper use of their victories"

-Polybius
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Old 12-17-2016, 06:57 PM   #17117
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie View Post
Does anybody in the poker world truly care you had an up night or got crushed? Other than your backers, no.
That's life, son, not just poker. No one cares except those that are affected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie View Post
For someone who seems to take pride in the Socratic method of learning, you sure have this one way off.
I do not take pride in whatever method you choose to label it. I am just here for my own learning purpose, like everyone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie View Post
The individual is the only one who cares about the process and results, whether in poker or in the professional world.
Sounded like you were disagreeing with me, but then sounds like you agree here.

--------

Fact of matter is, result is the only thing that matters at end of the day. The only reason why I would care about improving my skill is so that I can have a better result the next day.
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Old 12-17-2016, 07:03 PM   #17118
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

FWIW, understanding how well I played and accepting end result are basically higher level thinking of acknowledging that poker is as much about losing as winning.

If I had a losing session, but I can recognized that I played well, it would make me feel slightly better than knowing I had not played well. But then again, how many people actually know what it means to play well?

So is acknowledging playing well and ignoring result another form of lying to yourself?
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Old 12-17-2016, 08:38 PM   #17119
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
That's life, son, not just poker. No one cares except those that are affected.



I do not take pride in whatever method you choose to label it. I am just here for my own learning purpose, like everyone else.



Sounded like you were disagreeing with me, but then sounds like you agree here.

--------

Fact of matter is, result is the only thing that matters at end of the day. The only reason why I would care about improving my skill is so that I can have a better result the next day.
Misunderstood your OP. You're right, we are in agreement. Nobody gives a **** about your own results/process except for you.
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Old 12-17-2016, 08:58 PM   #17120
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
FWIW, understanding how well I played and accepting end result are basically higher level thinking of acknowledging that poker is as much about losing as winning.

If I had a losing session, but I can recognized that I played well, it would make me feel slightly better than knowing I had not played well. But then again, how many people actually know what it means to play well?

So is acknowledging playing well and ignoring result another form of lying to yourself?
If you GII on the flop and you are a 80/20 favorite but end up losing then you should feel good about how you played, even though you just lost a massive pot.
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Old 12-17-2016, 09:59 PM   #17121
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by bodybuilder32 View Post
If you GII on the flop and you are a 80/20 favorite but end up losing then you should feel good about how you played, even though you just lost a massive pot.
Key word: should.

Why should you feel good about losing, because you made the right decision?

Should you feel bad about winning if you made the wrong decision?

FWIW, if you're new to the journey of poker? Yes, you should tell yourself that losing isn't necessarily bad.

However, if you have been at this game for a while, it shouldn't even be about feeling good or bad; it should be "when are we playing the next hand?"
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Old 12-18-2016, 02:26 AM   #17122
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

May have played my last session for 2016 (unless I can get to a room in FL over Christmas), so tentative results:

707.6 hours, $6729 in winnings, $9.51/hr (meh?)

Not a bad year considering that I also dabbled in some RxR/PLO again with marginal results. Highest volume year ever too. 3rd highest winning year.
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Old 12-18-2016, 04:40 AM   #17123
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Sounds like arguing just to argue.

Nobody got time for that.
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Old 12-18-2016, 06:53 AM   #17124
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

running at 0.085bb/hr over 164 hours in my normal game since September 1st, sustainable? with a few short wins at other casinos i'm at 2.6bb/hr over 187 hours.

to bring it on-topic, of the 80 sessions included in the above sample, i'm at 36/80 for 45% wins but i feel "bad" about at least 80% of the sessions (more like 95% in this sample) which obviously has to include some wins, and not just feeling badly about the lost hands within those winning sessions.
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Old 12-18-2016, 12:18 PM   #17125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard32 View Post
Hi guys,

Not sure if this is the appropriate place to post this but would like some opinions/thoughts?

What is considered a "big" win for a 1/3 session?

What about a decent win?

I bought in for 200 and cashed out with 585 what would you guys consider this?

Thanks!!


The content of your post could be read as an honest question from a new player. When I played 13, "professionally "I considered a big win anything over 330 big blinds. $1000 wins back to back can really help out the roll at that level and set you up better for taking a jump in stakes.

For me, I rate the ability to have 300+ big blind wins at least 10% of the time as a key factor in being able tocrush live low stakes no limit. This also applies better to 10 to 15 hour sessions.


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Last edited by Maskk; 12-18-2016 at 12:24 PM.
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