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Old 11-13-2016, 11:39 PM   #16826
WereBeer
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Don't get me wrong, I voluntarily play an 8 to 10 hour session every 2 weeks and if I could play more often, I would. But I think doing a 40 hour week in that place would make me a noticeable worse human being.

Luckily I'm not nearly good enough at poker to have to make a financial decision to play professionally.
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Old 11-14-2016, 02:09 AM   #16827
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Poker rooms are filled with some of the most disgusting degenerate people that absolutely hate life and want everyone to know how badly they hate life. To call it an energy suck is an understatement.
It depends on what stakes you play at. I used to play at very high stakes where you would meet very interesting people whom you could learn from. Those games don't exist anymore. Much as in life you will have a better time independent of win rate spending your time with people who are better off.
If you don't believe that you have never met a typical 3-6 limit player most of whom think it's the dealer's fault that they always lose.
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Old 11-14-2016, 02:45 AM   #16828
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Will stop the derail after this (although it speaks to game conditions which directly relates to WR)

There is exactly one room that has a consistent 5/10. That is Isle. Hardrock may get one going on Fri/Sat (though often it doesnt) Tampa may get one on Fri/Sat (though often it doesnt)

So I don't know where all of these juicy 5/10 games(S) are going, but it's not in 2016. In reality there is one game that goes, it is at isle, and it has several very good regs, several 100 year old nits, and a few bad business owners etc. It is a bad to okay game during the week and yes will get 1-2 must moves on the weekend and be slightly good to decent.

A good 5/10 in sfla is a novelty, it is not the norm.

That is not to say there isn't good high stakes action here. If you play plo, then sfla (or tampa) still offers great action And I might entertain the claim that 20bb/hr was achievable at 2/5 plo here. But 5/10 NL is dead, and has been for a few years now.

There are probably less than 10 real NL pros down here. I'd define a "real" pro as someone making > $100K with poker as their sole source of income. So I do not know who the sources are but they are either exaggerating, mislead, or in 2011.
I flew to florida to play the 10-25 NL for two weeks when NL first opened a few years ago. The 10-25 ran every day usually with two tables. They were good but only a little better than Commerce so I didn't stay. Sad to see the state of poker where they don't even have a consistent 5-10.

This year at the WSOP I went to the Wynn to play some 10-25. There were two tables. At 38 I may have been the oldest guy at either table. Within an hour both tables had broke. Turns out everyone was waiting for one fish who never showed. The only way I can think of to save NL is to have an ante say 10-25 with $5 ante but casinos wont want to slow down the game.
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Old 11-14-2016, 03:01 AM   #16829
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The only way I can think of to save NL is to have an ante say 10-25 with $5 ante but casinos wont want to slow down the game.
How is that going to save it? If recreational players aren't willing to play 10/25 then why do you think they will play bigger? We used to have 5/T with a $5 ante running quite a bit and most rec players didn't realize how big that game plays. I'm guessing they finally figured it out because that game doesn't run anymore.
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Old 11-14-2016, 09:18 AM   #16830
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If u want to deal with less dregs and more tolerable people- id recommend playing during the day.

The games arent as good but the environemnt is better
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Old 11-14-2016, 11:35 AM   #16831
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There's without a doubt a big correlation between miserable people and the stakes you play.

The lowest stake will generally be miserable and filled with a ton of nits who grind out that 20k/year or degens etc.

A lot of 2/5 or 5/10 games are filled with successful businessmen, lawyers, investors etc and are often a pleasure to talk to at the table
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Old 11-14-2016, 11:41 AM   #16832
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Originally Posted by YGOchamp View Post
There's without a doubt a big correlation between miserable people and the stakes you play.

The lowest stake will generally be miserable and filled with a ton of nits who grind out that 20k/year or degens etc.

A lot of 2/5 or 5/10 games are filled with successful businessmen, lawyers, investors etc and are often a pleasure to talk to at the table
I have to agree with this. If you actually take the time to engage some of these people, your time spent at the tables will be much more enjoyable.
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Old 11-14-2016, 11:59 AM   #16833
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

There are days when the experience is miserable and there are days when you can have a ton of laughs even if it's a losing day. Just come ready to exercise the social muscle.
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Old 11-14-2016, 01:37 PM   #16834
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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A lot of 2/5 or 5/10 games are filled with successful businessmen, lawyers, investors etc and are often a pleasure to talk to at the table
Yes and no.

Many successful people have elitist view to things and can often be the worst sore losers.
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Old 11-14-2016, 01:42 PM   #16835
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Originally Posted by y0l0Theory View Post
Agree that most tables there's this fake sense of camraderie where everyone appears to be having fun, but most are genuinely unhappy (including pros).
Interesting take, imo.

I've just gotten back from a Vegas trip where I got in a rather lol ~11 hours of pokering, but it was different experience for me simply because I was playing with all randoms (instead of my usual 99% reg filled room back home). I'd guess ~9 of those hours the table I was at was fairly pleasant and happy and entertaining, although I too question exactly how genuine that environment really is (although, I'm guessing that applies to most people in most other environments too).

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Old 11-14-2016, 09:56 PM   #16836
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How is that going to save it? If recreational players aren't willing to play 10/25 then why do you think they will play bigger? We used to have 5/T with a $5 ante running quite a bit and most rec players didn't realize how big that game plays. I'm guessing they finally figured it out because that game doesn't run anymore.
I meant to introduce an ante to increase the action regardless of the stakes. In a $2-5 game it could be $1. A $5 ante in a 5-10 is a bit extreme a $2 ante would suffice. So when I open for $30 in a 5-10 there would be say $33 in the pot 9-handed instead of $15 allowing me to play a much wider range and to 3 and 4 bet light at higher frequencies. Some people play tourneys for the long shot aspect of it or to get on t.v. I play them for fun because the antes allows for a much more aggressive style.

Last edited by aling; 11-14-2016 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 11-14-2016, 10:00 PM   #16837
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It is a good remedy if you are playing at a table with no limping in and preflop raises commonly take down the blinds. If the game is playing aggro then it really isn't necessary.

I think making the minimum buy in 100BB's would be all that is needed in order to create action.
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Old 11-14-2016, 10:01 PM   #16838
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I meant to introduce an ante to increase the action regardless of the stakes. In a $2-5 game it could be $1.
There would be so much, "HEY thats my ante, HEY NO THATS MY ante". From what I have seen in terms of reg scumminess this would slow the game down a ton.
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Old 11-14-2016, 10:05 PM   #16839
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The dealers are used to enforcing it in tourneys often enough. Don't think it'd be that bad.
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Old 11-14-2016, 10:15 PM   #16840
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Antes are terrible for the game from a longevity perspective.

Anything that puts more money into the pot kills poker faster ftr.
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Old 11-14-2016, 10:36 PM   #16841
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Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch View Post
Antes are terrible for the game from a longevity perspective.

Anything that puts more money into the pot kills poker faster ftr.
That is only the case if you think dead money is finite. Don't forget that at most casinos the vast majority of gamblers don't play poker. Graton Casino has hundreds of players betting thousands per hand on blackjack and baccarat every day yet we can't even get a 5-10 game any more. Making the game more exciting could attract these players. No one likes to play with nits and antes are kryptonite to nits.

We have all seen action players sit down, proclaim the game is dead, and proceed to straddle and encourage others to also. Unfortunately this usually has the opposite effect since though the game is now bigger it is likely also tighter. People who will not call $75 from the button with pocket 6s or AJ suited will certainly not call $150. With antes however people tend to open for the same 3X. Possibly because they are accustomed to tourney small ball sizing.

Last edited by aling; 11-14-2016 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 11-15-2016, 12:32 AM   #16842
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Accurate stat keeping since Sept 2014

Mixture of 1/3 and 2/5

I play about 25-30 hours per week.







I'll be happy to answer any questions you guys may have!

Thanks

Last edited by pooky604; 11-15-2016 at 12:49 AM.
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Old 11-15-2016, 12:36 AM   #16843
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It appears the site you are using is being blocked by the site's decency filter (ie blocks curse words and such)
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Old 11-15-2016, 01:05 AM   #16844
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Thanks for the stats pooky. Why such short 3 hour average sessions? Is that from switching between 1-3 and 2-5 often or extreme game selection? Also it looks like you earned 50K this year vs 30K last year is that from playing more 2-5?
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Old 11-15-2016, 01:30 AM   #16845
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I game select pretty hard....

I just ran into some pretty ugly variance in the beginning of 2015.

The past 1000 hours, I have actually played the majority of my sessions at 1/3
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Old 11-15-2016, 01:38 AM   #16846
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Those stats are excellent then. You might even earn more from 1-3 than 2-5. Sadly this is why all the bigger games are dying. It is irrational to play bigger to earn less hence the bigger games break.
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Old 11-15-2016, 01:36 PM   #16847
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Nice stats pooky, thanks for posting.

Would be curious as to the 1/3 vs 2/5 breakdown; similar, or different?

Gguessing604isyourareacode?G
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Old 11-17-2016, 01:09 AM   #16848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
I don't know the kind of people you deal with on a daily basis but my life outside of the poker doesn't include people that are constantly complaining about things.

Confirmed itt: DC is not married.

And if you're making a career playing poker, at some level I really hope you enjoy the game.


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Old 11-17-2016, 05:01 AM   #16849
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As far as the live casino poker scene being an energy suck/ depressing sight, it bothered me at first but as I change my mindset it becomes much easier to just accept. By mindset, I mean, to view being in the casino for what it is to me. It isn't about making friends, it isn't about being nice, and it isn't a therapy session to talk to people about your life or theirs. It's about money. Will some small % of players genuinely want to talk about their life or yours? Maybe, but an even smaller percentage of them are going to want to do that while losing money which is what most of them will inevitably do. I feel like for most people who are playing poker "professionally" whether in their head or in reality they are in an interesting/transition/lonely period in their lives. For most of us it is human to want to socialize and not feel like you are alone but that didn't help me at all except to serve as a delusion in reference to my emotional approach to navigating the live poker casino environment. But thats the problem, in the casino all there is is you, the money you win or lose and the decisions you make. The more hours I log, the more this idea sinks in and the easier it becomes to accept. I'm sure this idea has been repeated over the forums many times and is an extremely simple concept for many people on these forums but it took me a while to figure it out.
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Old 11-17-2016, 07:44 AM   #16850
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*** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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I think making the minimum buy in 100BB's would be all that is needed in order to create action.

And exclude the fish who buy in for 30-50BB try to run it up and end up buying in a bunch of times? No thanks. Those tools make up a significant portion of my player pool and my win rate.



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