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Old 05-31-2012, 09:28 AM   #1651
11t
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Your sample size is too small. You are not winning 50 $/hr in any where near the medium to long term in a 2/3 game unless the avg stack at the table is like 500 to 1k+
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:49 AM   #1652
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

so you guys think overall in the end it will just get lower from here on?
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:02 AM   #1653
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

What are the average BI and stack sizes of the game?

I have gone on stretches of over 20-30bb in 70 - 100 hour intervals, and they're quite meaningless in the big picture. Yes, they added $1 or $2 to my win rate.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:34 AM   #1654
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'm @ 15.5bb/hr in live cash games, and if I were to filter out my 2/5 sessions I'm sure that number would be higher.

I think it's definitely attainable to get this sort of win rate with the right conditions.

1) Just make sure you're 100% about poker when you go. If you're not, you might as well sit at home and not lose the money you're taking out.
2) Don't play tired or angry. This is especially easy.
3) Stay hydrated. A little thing mentioned in the book "How I Made My First Million" by Tri Nyugen that I think has vastly helped me.
4) Game selection. The games I normally play in are local underground 1/2 games with most people buying in full (200-300), short stackers aren't common but when they are playing they are reloading, a lot.
5) Did I say game selection? Would you believe me if I told you that the worst days to play poker are Sunday and Monday(according to my stats Mondays blow, down 2k on Mondays alone)? All the fish have lost their money over the weekend and need to recoup. Most games on Sundays are filled with tougher regs and less whales. If I go to the casino at all during the week I like to go Thursday night, Friday night or Saturday during the day. Prime time to be fishing.

As always, stack chipz o_O
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:23 AM   #1655
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

It is likely not possible to be > 10xbb/hr long term in cash games unless you are a world class player and even then I doubt it.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:35 AM   #1656
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRIFTKING View Post
how is 50 an hour from grinding at 2-3
Are you keeping accurate stats?

This post and your next one have the feeling of a "guessimate" to me, but I might be wrong. If you're not recording your exact win/loss and hours for every single session and are simply relying on "memory" or whatever, then you truly have no clue where you are. If you are recording these exact stats, you're running extremely hot (and my guess is over a small sample size; is this less than 100 hrs?).

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:42 AM   #1657
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If memory serves, I am up one billion dollars.
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:04 PM   #1658
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Guys i make 120$/hr at my .50/1 home game. Is that a good winrate or am I bad?

I mean. Obviously 50$/hr at 2/3 is crazy good, I have a hard time believing that anyone could think otherwise, but your sample size is likely very small.

Your either doing some creative accounting or you haven't played nearly enough.
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:09 PM   #1659
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by SeaUlater View Post
If memory serves, I am up one billion dollars.
Ya, playing 1 Billion / 2 Billion NL over 100 hrs for a win rate of .005 BBs / hr. To small a sample size, you're running hot.

Gseaulaterstraddlesto4BillionG
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:49 PM   #1660
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooTizzle View Post
$1/2NL 50min 200max

Net Win $3,529.00
Hours Played 77.9
Hourly Rate $45.32
BB/hr 24.6

Running good? I had two 10 hours sessions +$1000! Been having really soft tables.

How many hours is an accurate sample size?
500 hours gets you close...1000 hours gets you closer, online players may start conceding that your on to something by like 10k hours. Basically when you have enough hours that a streak of wins or losses has only a few cents impact on your hourly, then your there.

Last edited by Dan_The_Amateur; 05-31-2012 at 12:56 PM. Reason: added content
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:15 PM   #1661
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by 11t View Post
It is likely not possible to be > 10xbb/hr long term in cash games unless you are a world class player and even then I doubt it.
False. MAYBE

5-7bb/hour is fairly achievable in live poker. Since you get around 30 hands per hour in live play you can achieve something like 16-23bb/100. That is how much softer live is compared to online, and a difference that many online only players have a hard time wrapping their minds around.

To back up my statements from my own numbers, here they are:

Profit $19,488
Hours 1100
$/hr $17.72
Tips $1979
BB/hr 6.51

With a wr of 6.51 bb/hr, I should have a wr/100 of somewhere around 21.7bb/100.

I am by no means world class, but I am a strong player. A world class player could definitely achieve better results. Also I work Fri-Mon nights, so most of my playtime is weekend daytime or weekdays, not exactly primo grind time. Numbers posted are also after tips which as you can see is about 10% of total wins.

So given better game conditions, and zero tipping 10bb/hr could be achievable.

Last edited by Dan_The_Amateur; 05-31-2012 at 01:41 PM. Reason: Added info to make me look less dumb... probably failed
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:18 PM   #1662
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_The_Amateur View Post
False.

5-7bb/hour is fairly achievable in live poker. Since you get around 30 hands per hour in live play you can achieve something like 16-23bb/100. That is how much softer live is compared to online, and a difference that many online only players have a hard time wrapping their minds around.

To back up my statements from my own numbers, here they are:

Profit $19,488
Hours 1100
$/hr $17.72
Tips $1979
BB/hr 6.51

With a wr of 6.51 bb/hr, I should have a wr/100 of somewhere around 21.7bb/100.

I am by no means world class, but I am a strong player. A world class player could definitely achieve better results. Also I work Fri-Mon nights, so most of my playtime is weekend daytime or weekdays, not exactly primo grind time.
Not sure what you are disputing.

He is saying more than 10bb/hr is almost impossible. What are you saying to contradict that? I'd say it is exceptional rather than impossible but whatever.
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:21 PM   #1663
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'm making 19 bb an hour over 180 hours, I think a minimum of 500 hours is needed to determine what you should expect to earn.
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:21 PM   #1664
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

LOL at saying 11t's assertion is false and then going on to prove he is correct by providing your 6.51bb/hr winrate. lol wut
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:39 PM   #1665
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by fredd-bird View Post
LOL at saying 11t's assertion is false and then going on to prove he is correct by providing your 6.51bb/hr winrate. lol wut
lol, ok. For whatever reason I misread and thought he was saying /100 not /hr. Gonna have to proofread better before going on rants.
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Old 05-31-2012, 02:42 PM   #1666
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by squid face View Post
how many angles can you balance on the head of a pin??

you are asking the same question in regards to bankroll requirements.

what is your hourly win rate?
are you a winning player?
becoming a winnar at pokerz doesnt happen by accident?
in general people that ask "how many bi do I need for x" need an unlimited roll b/c they can't beat the game

just a heads up
Well it's a difficult question to phrase properly. I assume I'm a winning player, before black Friday, I was a winner at 2-4 and 3-6 LIMIT poker online over about 100k hands. That being said, I haven't played more than a handful of times since then, I've been really out of it due to my job.

No limit is a different beast, so while I know I'm competent, there's no reason for me to think I'm just going to crush these live games. That being said, I by no means expect to be a loser. I have read all of the No-Limit books, and am trying to frequent two plus two and post here more often. To answer your questions specifically:

Hourly rate is upwards of $100 per hour over the course of 4 sessions at this game, but I know that's just running well.

Winning player - I'd assume I am but no guarantee
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Old 05-31-2012, 02:48 PM   #1667
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by serio562 View Post
Download "session logger", free app from android market or try pokerdominator.com
Yeah, I don't have a smart phone (I know, I know), and I had checked out pokerdominator.com in the past but wasn't too impressed with it. I'm using Excel to track my sessions. Session tracking is not a problem. I am more concerned with how much money I should set aside for this. I don't want to be constantly pulling money out of my checking account to go play poker. I want the finances to be separate, and want my poker bankroll to be it's own solvent fund.
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Old 05-31-2012, 02:54 PM   #1668
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_The_Amateur View Post
lol, ok. For whatever reason I misread and thought he was saying /100 not /hr. Gonna have to proofread better before going on rants.
lol happens to the best of us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by All-in-baby View Post
Yeah, I don't have a smart phone (I know, I know), and I had checked out pokerdominator.com in the past but wasn't too impressed with it. I'm using Excel to track my sessions. Session tracking is not a problem. I am more concerned with how much money I should set aside for this. I don't want to be constantly pulling money out of my checking account to go play poker. I want the finances to be separate, and want my poker bankroll to be it's own solvent fund.
Open a new bank account just for your poker money
Deposit roll
????
Profit
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:18 PM   #1669
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

you guys make poker sound like a waste of money lol

im trying to elevate my bankroll and play into that of phil ivey status but you guys are making me expect like making minimum wage i just play on the side and after the ups and downs it comes down to about 50 an hour in profit and i wanted to reach at least 100

when i win i win big when i lose i just go home so it balances out a little in the plus i stop after making a nice profit as i found if i i just sit around with a big stack i stop picking up hands and i end up just losing 20-30 bb over the course of a few hours
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:25 PM   #1670
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by All-in-baby View Post
Yeah, I don't have a smart phone (I know, I know), and I had checked out pokerdominator.com in the past but wasn't too impressed with it. I'm using Excel to track my sessions. Session tracking is not a problem. I am more concerned with how much money I should set aside for this. I don't want to be constantly pulling money out of my checking account to go play poker. I want the finances to be separate, and want my poker bankroll to be it's own solvent fund.
I keep my roll in a safe. I'll soon open a separate account, I just wanted to keep it on hand so I wouldn't be hitting the ATM at all.
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:56 PM   #1671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRIFTKING View Post
you guys make poker sound like a waste of money lol

im trying to elevate my bankroll and play into that of phil ivey status but you guys are making me expect like making minimum wage i just play on the side and after the ups and downs it comes down to about 50 an hour in profit and i wanted to reach at least 100

when i win i win big when i lose i just go home so it balances out a little in the plus i stop after making a nice profit as i found if i i just sit around with a big stack i stop picking up hands and i end up just losing 20-30 bb over the course of a few hours
Doesn't sound like you have had much experience.
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:59 PM   #1672
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

safety deposit boxes people, do it
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:00 PM   #1673
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRIFTKING View Post
you guys make poker sound like a waste of money lol

im trying to elevate my bankroll and play into that of phil ivey status but you guys are making me expect like making minimum wage i just play on the side and after the ups and downs it comes down to about 50 an hour in profit and i wanted to reach at least 100

when i win i win big when i lose i just go home so it balances out a little in the plus i stop after making a nice profit as i found if i i just sit around with a big stack i stop picking up hands and i end up just losing 20-30 bb over the course of a few hours
You know nothing Jon Snow
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:05 PM   #1674
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You know nothing Jon Snow
Greyjoy at best.
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Old 05-31-2012, 06:04 PM   #1675
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Doesn't seem like a bad guy. Im going with Patchface
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