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Old 08-09-2016, 11:19 AM   #16001
surviva316
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by bodybuilder32 View Post
I guess I meant that it is so +EV that it's like printing money. Either the bluff works and you scoop up the pot, but even on the occasion that it doesn't, it creates so much more action for you that getting caught on the bluff gets you paid more when you make a big hand.
Let me start off with two concessions:

1) Playing deeper games is more profitable for legitimately good players.

2) Bluffing is g00t. In fact, it's crucial to the game of NLHE.

We agree on those two points. My argument rests in how much you think you're printing money.

So you're playing players who are such sitting ducks that you can steamroll the entire table with a bunch of small-to-medium bluffs but who also adjust to really bluffy players and spew off huge stacks with marginal holdings?

I'm sure you're going to tell me, "Yeah, they adjust, but it's only certain types of players who adjust and they do it at such predictable times," and so forth. But frankly, I'm skeptical of this ostensible poker wizardry. Based on what I've observed, the #1 Law of Live Poker is that everyone thinks they are far more omniscient than they actually are and they think everyone else is much more of an easily exploitable drooler than they actually are.

It takes more than just one or two small-to-medium sized bluffs for the act to be comparable to printing money, so what do you do after the first two bluffs you pull off? What if instead of being dealt Crap then Crap then Nuts, you're dealt Crap then Crap then Crap then more Crap? What about Crap then TPTK then Crap then TPGK then Crap then Marginal Holding and villain's "playing back" at you? At what point are the other players going to adjust, and how exactly are they going to adjust (by re-raising a polarized range, by re-raising some weird mergy range, by flatting the nuts and letting you hang yourself, by flatting the flop with a wide range then folding the turn, by flatting a wide range and calling off light, by calling wider pre to gun for you, by tightening up pre because that young gun's just gonna bluff you postflop anyway)?

You don't get to decide in what order you are dealt badugi versus when you are dealt the nuts, and as much as you'd like to think, when and how other players adjust is just a big game of RPS and I'm willing to bet with 99% of 2p2 posters that they're worse at RPS than they think they are.

Again, I agree that bluffing is great for your bottom line for all of the reasons you mentioned and playing deeper is a bigger advantage for those who are good at playing with deep stacks. But if everyone crushed these games even half as hard as they claim, then poker would be a higher grossing sector of the American economy than healthcare. But as with all matters of live poker, the fish stop their heater and have a bunch of losing sessions, the pros go on a long crippling breakeven streak and get bored and either stop showing up to the casino or blow their BR at the pits, the nits stop getting smashed by the deck and start stiffing the dealers and waitstaff in order to keep their winnings afloat, etc.

Last edited by surviva316; 08-09-2016 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 08-09-2016, 11:24 AM   #16002
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

What roid body builder was trying to say was that if you can't win the hand, bluff, and if you get caught, it's good, because bluffs add EV to your value hands.

So when you have good hands, you get max value.

Kind of like if you only count your winning sessions, there is literally zero variance.
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Old 08-09-2016, 11:25 AM   #16003
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*** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by surviva316 View Post
You don't get to decide in what order you are dealt badugi versus when you are dealt the nuts, and as much as you'd like to think, when and how other players adjust is just a big game of RPS and I'm willing to bet with 99% of 2p2 posters that they're worse at RPS than they think they are.

RPS???

Rock Paper Scissors? Only thing I could think of.
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Old 08-09-2016, 11:26 AM   #16004
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That's what he meant.
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Old 08-09-2016, 11:57 AM   #16005
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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That's a relief to know. How often YGO eats my soul has always been a burning question in my mind. I wish I could get an assessment from someone who hasn't lost 100 buyins or whatever it was in a live 2/5 game though.
Ok keep asking random internet people about attainable win rates in a 1/2 game instead of ... you know ... just playing in the game yourself and forming your own conclusions. I can tell you are going places.
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Old 08-09-2016, 01:14 PM   #16006
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Literally all of western Canada is just printing money, although this year has had less stupid 10/25 and 25/50 games.
I firmly believe that the 1/2 games in Alberta are the softest in the world.
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Old 08-09-2016, 01:20 PM   #16007
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I'd like to hear more anecdotes about how married grinders manage their bankrolls. I feel like my BRM rules would be way too degen for most women to tolerate.


I have a separate "poker roll" that I use for playing poker, and I also use it for paying for "fun stuff" for me that falls outside of our monthly budget.

eg: I've taken 4 vegas trips in the last 3 years, all paid for by the poker roll. I usually buy birthday/mother's day gifts out of the poker roll. If I'm on the golf course and I want to have a few beers with the guys, I pay for it out of the poker roll.

downside is the poker roll doesn't grow like it should, and downswings put me in the danger area occasionally.


edit: not a pro obviously. I have a full time job and Poker is a hobby.

Last edited by Dubey; 08-09-2016 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 08-09-2016, 01:50 PM   #16008
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I firmly believe that the 1/2 games in Alberta are the softest in the world.
Would've figured they dried up a bit as the oil industry has been in the crapper but *shrug*
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Old 08-09-2016, 02:02 PM   #16009
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Would've figured they dried up a bit as the oil industry has been in the crapper but *shrug*
Some of the money isn't there anymore, but a below average 1/2 table in Calgary on a Saturday night would still be in the 95-100th percentile of 1/2 or 1/3 games in vegas. A good table there is unlike anything I have seen in any other place I have ever played, to be honest.

Plus most of the casinos have an optional $5 button straddle now so the games usually end up playing like 2/5 with a few aggro tards at every table.

Unfortunately I don't live there anymore, so I only get to play there occasionally now.
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Old 08-09-2016, 05:58 PM   #16010
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I don't understand all the mrs questions.

Get a better job / change lifestyle if you have to budget every single dollar.

If you can't get a better job with the skills you have then get a degree / more skills and or change your lifestyle habits.

In my case we have seperate accounts for this exact same reason- if my so wants to go on a shopping spree well she can its her money. Just like I can use the funds in my seperate account however I like.
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Old 08-09-2016, 06:24 PM   #16011
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Ytd stats

Holdem cash 2/5. Up just over 4K from 80 hours

PLO cash 1/3. Down about 1300 from 15 hours

HE tournaments - down 13k from 6 MTTs and 3 satellites. Winrates, bankrolls, and finances. Did have a deep ish run in an mtt as well but picked the $330 to run well and not the $2k or $3ks

Winrates, bankrolls, and financesWinrates, bankrolls, and financesWinrates, bankrolls, and financesWinrates, bankrolls, and finances
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Old 08-09-2016, 06:32 PM   #16012
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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In my case we have seperate accounts for this exact same reason- if my so wants to go on a shopping spree well she can its her money. Just like I can use the funds in my seperate account however I like.
Congratulations?

If you think separate bank accounts are the norm in most marriages you are wrong.

your post comes off as condescending and you lack awareness of the reality for a lot of families.
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Old 08-09-2016, 06:50 PM   #16013
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Separate bank accounts? That's OUTRAGEOUS! No marriage can survive that.
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Old 08-09-2016, 06:52 PM   #16014
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Siculamente View Post
I don't understand all the mrs questions.

Get a better job / change lifestyle if you have to budget every single dollar.

If you can't get a better job with the skills you have then get a degree / more skills and or change your lifestyle habits.

In my case we have seperate accounts for this exact same reason- if my so wants to go on a shopping spree well she can its her money. Just like I can use the funds in my seperate account however I like.
Some of us have different values. I would like to retire by 40. I don't HAVE to budget every dollar, but every dollar spent is one less dollar towards my ultimate goal of early retirement.
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Old 08-09-2016, 07:07 PM   #16015
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LOL separate accounts...already planning life after divorce?
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Old 08-09-2016, 07:46 PM   #16016
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'm not married and have never been in a serious relationship, but I can't fathom the idea of a joint account. What if she just cleans you out one day?
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Old 08-09-2016, 07:56 PM   #16017
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I'm not married and have never been in a serious relationship, but I can't fathom the idea of a joint account. What if she just cleans you out one day?


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Old 08-09-2016, 08:03 PM   #16018
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I'm not married and have never been in a serious relationship, but I can't fathom the idea of a joint account. What if she just cleans you out one day?


Crazy how you've never been in a serious relationship
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Old 08-09-2016, 08:25 PM   #16019
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That's kind of sad...
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Old 08-09-2016, 08:25 PM   #16020
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Siculamente View Post
I don't understand all the mrs questions.

Get a better job / change lifestyle if you have to budget every single dollar.
Not sure if I've seen a lot of people talking about "budgeting every single dollar." Many people are discussing how to manage their bankrolls, and if you're so flush with cash that you don't need to make sound decisions with 5 or 6 figures worth of cash, then holy **** good for you. Or maybe you're just referring to any kind of budgeting, in which case ... lol? I really don't think Quicken users correlate so directly with people who are underemployed and/or spending beyond their means.

Even if the people you're replying to are underemployed, "Get a better job or get a degree so that you can get a better job" is pretty troll-level advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siculamente View Post
In my case we have seperate accounts for this exact same reason- if my so wants to go on a shopping spree well she can its her money. Just like I can use the funds in my seperate account however I like.
You may not be replying to me, but FWIW, our joint account is barely more than an escrow to pay shared bills. Unlike others, I don't think it's absurd to not have a joint account, but there may be very practical reasons to have one (eg: only one income and your SO would rather not operate on an "allowance" type system).
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Old 08-09-2016, 08:28 PM   #16021
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by BirdsallSa View Post
I'm not married and have never been in a serious relationship, but I can't fathom the idea of a joint account. What if she just cleans you out one day?
This is why my wife and I sleep in separate rooms and I have a deadbolt and alarm system to my room and sleep with pepper spray under my pillow. What if she wants to kill me one night?
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Old 08-09-2016, 08:35 PM   #16022
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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This is why my wife and I sleep in separate rooms and I have a deadbolt and alarm system to my room and sleep with pepper spray under my pillow. What if she wants to kill me one night?


Can you really blame her for wanting to make the world a better place?
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Old 08-09-2016, 08:51 PM   #16023
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I have joint finances with my wife (only single account is my poker account and her eBay account) and it works fine for us but it's not like it's the height of craziness to have separate accounts either.
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Old 08-09-2016, 08:52 PM   #16024
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by surviva316 View Post
This is why my wife and I sleep in separate rooms and I have a deadbolt and alarm system to my room and sleep with pepper spray under my pillow. What if she wants to kill me one night?


Winrates, bankrolls, and finances
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Old 08-09-2016, 08:57 PM   #16025
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Winrates, bankrolls, and finances
pepper spray fetishist itt
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