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Old 05-19-2012, 10:18 PM   #1576
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Quote:
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There had to be a lot of spew in there. What was the timeframe you lost 10k in?

Tilt issues/etc...

23$/hr is quite the low end as well.
Im beating 23 an hour at 1,2...
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:58 PM   #1577
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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How so?

Since I started playing 2/5 for a living over 2 years ago I have logged 3,457 hours of play and have a profit of $80k averaging $23/hr without ever having a downswing of more then 7 buy-ins ($3,500)

Then I lost my entire bankroll of over $10k pretty much all at once, booking losing session after losing session with a win here and there.
Based on your numbers you spend near 100% of your profits on bills or whatever correct? You started with 10k and still had 10k after profiting 80k.

If you never took money out of your 10k bankroll from the beginning and had a $23/hour winrate then you would only have a .06% risk of ruin.
with you spending all your money on bills then your winrate really is near 0/hour for risk of ruin purposes.

so even with $1/hour winrate after paying bills, etc. and making $23/hour with an hourly standard deviation of $250/hour(fairly average for 2/5nl)
you would need 143k just to give you a 1% ror and even 21k would give you a 50% ror.

Bottom line is you have to grow your roll and not spend all your profits or you will go bust at some point.
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:18 PM   #1578
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Random question

but whats the max hrly u think a live grinder is looking at?

75hr?

100hr?

Im talking for 30hrs a week of volume
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:41 PM   #1579
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

2/5 50/hr
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:41 PM   #1580
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

an amazing outlier player might bust out 75/hr but too much showdown poker imo
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Old 05-20-2012, 04:33 PM   #1581
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhcg86 View Post
Random question

but whats the max hrly u think a live grinder is looking at?

75hr?

100hr?

Im talking for 30hrs a week of volume
Disregarding hero's ability, need to know some things (among others):

1. Average buy-in size

2. Quality of player pool

3. Table-change possibilities

4. Free alcohol?

5. Day of week and time of day of usual session
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Old 05-20-2012, 05:03 PM   #1582
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Where do they serve free alcohol other then vegas?
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Old 05-20-2012, 05:17 PM   #1583
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Where do they serve free alcohol other then vegas?
pa after you log some hours
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Old 05-20-2012, 05:44 PM   #1584
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by PayOffWizard1987 View Post
I would say the 2/5 NL at the Horseshoe in Chicago is the toughest 2/5 game in the country
You think Hammond is the toughest 2/5 game in the country?
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:01 PM   #1585
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Ain't no money in indiana.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:11 PM   #1586
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Ain't no money in indiana.
You would be surprised about how deep some games can get in areas far away from major hubs. Heck, I know and have played in a 2/5 game in a very small town in Indiana. To put the area in perspective, the nearest Best Buy is an hour away. There is no max buy-in. $20k on the table is common and $6k+ stacks are common, too. The game is 100% legal and raked at only $5+1.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:22 PM   #1587
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Heck, one of the best "values" I've seen was a 1/3 game in Columbus, Ohio. They (Gemini) have a must-move and permit buy-ins up to 70% of the biggest stack. It's neither a casino nor specifically a poker room. It's a "player's club" where members pay a nominal yearly membership fee ($25) and a daily usage fee ($25). As such, there is no rake. On a weekday at the main table, $15k is common. The game plays like a deep 2/5. What makes it a great value is that after 2.5 hours (given that a comparable time-rake for a 2/5 game is $5 per half-hour), you're essentially playing rake-free poker.

Again, who would think of Columbus as a great place to play deep-stacked 1/3 (read: 2/5)? If you bought in for the maximum allowable and were a good player, you could easily average 10+ bb/hr. Throw in the low cost of living, it's an exceptional "value" for someone young who puts in 30 hours a week.

Unfortunately, the room will likely close when the casino opens in the fall.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:25 PM   #1588
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Farmers in the midwest have a lot of $$ and they don't spend all day in a ****ing field to come sit in a casino and wait for AA. Let me put it like that.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:37 PM   #1589
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Farmers in the midwest have a lot of $$ and they don't spend all day in a ****ing field to come sit in a casino and wait for AA. Let me put it like that.
The overwhelming majority of the deep pocket gamboolers I come across in these games are small business owners.

Business owners + Low cost of living = Bushels of disposable income
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:46 PM   #1590
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Dude said farmers lmao. That's hilarious.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:54 PM   #1591
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Hammond is a suburb of Chicago, it's not some farmers market...
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:29 PM   #1592
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

No ****, he said Indiana. There are a lot of rural farming communities in Indiana.
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:33 PM   #1593
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I hear the same thing about CT casinos.

Everyone thinks their home casino is the toughest in the country.

It's not
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:05 AM   #1594
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schadenfred View Post
Disregarding hero's ability, need to know some things (among others):

1. Average buy-in size

2. Quality of player pool

3. Table-change possibilities

4. Free alcohol?

5. Day of week and time of day of usual session
1. not sure, Im asking what a realistic cap is, assume we are rolled for up to 20/40nl

2. same idea, not sure, but probably GOOD

3. at higher limits, none =/

4. no free alcohol

5. whenever is max ev ofc

Im curious as to what we think a hrly ceiling is, at 30hrs a week of grinding, in bay area or LA
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:38 AM   #1595
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No ****, he said Indiana. There are a lot of rural farming communities in Indiana.
Yes, there are farmers in Indiana. And Ohio. And pretty much every state. Can't say I've seen any out-of-the-way deep-stacked games populated by farmers, though. Will be playing in one tomorrow. Again, I'll be surprised if under $20k is on the table at the high point. Last time I was there, there was a WSOP bracelet holder and a solid lag who likely played online (probably backed by said bracelet holder). The rest were gamboolers, a couple nits, and a young Asian who knew how to squeeze and isolate.

Middle of Nowhere, Indiana. Great 2/5 game. Go figure.
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Old 05-21-2012, 04:56 AM   #1596
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by RobFarha View Post
If you go on a 20BI downswing at 2/5 you are not a winning player.
SUREEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Im curious what a variance calculator would look like for a 10% roi, or whatever 5bbs/100 hands is. I fairly sure there are 20bi swings
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:40 AM   #1597
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhcg86 View Post
SUREEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Im curious what a variance calculator would look like for a 10% roi, or whatever 5bbs/100 hands is. I fairly sure there are 20bi swings
Of course. 5bbs/100 hands in live is more less close to break-even, and might not even cover the gas, let alone opportunity cost of doing it for a living.
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:44 AM   #1598
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

yeah 5 bb/100 hands live is like 7 $/hr at 2/5 and definitely not worth it.
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:10 PM   #1599
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

so whats the normal winrate? 5bbs an hour so thats like 17bbs/100?
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:16 PM   #1600
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Why ask these questions that have no definitive answer.

"Normal" winrate for most players is < 0 an hour, and for those that keep on asking this sort of questions, theirs are probably in the same ballpark.
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