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Old 08-07-2016, 09:40 PM   #15951
bwslim69
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*** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by BirdsallSa View Post
Is $6000 enough to play a 1/2 plo game with a negligible risk of ruin if you're the best player in the game?

There would be a 1/2 nlhe game as an option too, but it would not be nearly as good because the worst players from hold em start the Omaha game.


Not even close to enough in most 1/2 PLO games if you hope to play optimally






I'm busy not caring

Lol this guy....STFU Zoltan
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Old 08-07-2016, 10:26 PM   #15952
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by BirdsallSa View Post
Is $6000 enough to play a 1/2 plo game with a negligible risk of ruin if you're the best player in the game?

There would be a 1/2 nlhe game as an option too, but it would not be nearly as good because the worst players from hold em start the Omaha game.
Take 2k and shot take obv
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Old 08-07-2016, 11:41 PM   #15953
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Lost back 23k in plo so i guess im a hold em player again

/ personal blog lol
Given the immaculate HH's you posted all over HSPLO, this is very shocking
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Old 08-08-2016, 09:28 AM   #15954
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Angrist View Post
A good player adapts to the table. A mediocre one only has one style and has trouble in different games.
A good player wants to play in games where he has the highest EV and least amount of variance. I mean, ldo you have to adjust and not be a spewtard against donks. But the poor play from the fish doesn't really make up for the lack of $ on the table and the smaller pot sizes. Also, a lot of these weekend recs aren't even drunken droolers. Some are for sure. But a lot are just average working joes and ladies who play a pretty tight range preflop. This makes it difficult to outplay them post flop because they are not in that many hands. And because "we" have to tighten our range, we don't get to play that many pots either, so we don't get to have tons of confrontations with these inexperienced players, unless we are getting smacked in the face with the deck.

If you are sitting at a table that is composed of 50% short stack fishies and the other half are abc face up nits, you are going to be splitting up the fishes money with the other nits at the table. If the nit stacks a fish, he is going to get up from the table because he is scared to lose his "profit". So there goes all the money. Some of it isn't even due to hit and run, some people do have legitimate places to be. Hell, its a Saturday night after all. But this constant turnover at the table works against a thinking player who is developing reads and can profit the most from the meta-game between players.

Counter this to a full table on a weeknight (hell even Sunday night). If you are sitting in a game where everyone is 200BB's deep, then there is enough money on the table to skim from everyone without you even being noticed as an "action" player. A tight image mixed with a few steals in late position is enough to make 50-100BB's without even having to showdown. None of the regs care that your are stealing small to medium pots because they are constantly playing in so many big pots with the other loose regs. And if it's a true drooler fest where nobody folds, you'll glady nit it up to hit your set since you can win a potential 500BB pot. I can wait for hours to nut mine when I will be rewarded with a monster pot. It's a lot harder on my patience to wait for hours to flop a set only to win a small pot.

It's hilarious because weekends are the only times I see nits getting paid off by the fish when they have an obvious overpair to the board or when they make a set and shove over the fish who is holding top pair and get paid off. It makes me wonder if all these posters who have a hard on for the weekend are these nits I see on who never get any action by any of the regs during the week and scrape by making minimum wage only to see a boost in their win rate from the weekend droolers.

Last edited by bodybuilder32; 08-08-2016 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 08-08-2016, 09:31 AM   #15955
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I rarely play after 10-11PM, but I have never played in a game where everyone is 200BBs deep. Ever.
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Old 08-08-2016, 09:49 AM   #15956
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Happens all the time, almost daily during the graveyard hours. I mean, yes there may be one or two players that lose a pot and are temporarily sitting on a smaller stack, but they are the type of players to either shove preflop light with a shortstack or just top off their stack back to 100BB's. They're not just sitting there nitting it up with a 50BB stack waiting for premiums.
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Old 08-08-2016, 12:00 PM   #15957
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by bodybuilder32 View Post
A good player wants to play in games where he has the highest EV and least amount of variance.
LOL what...

Who wouldn't want 0 variance and highest EV? But naturally EV goes with variance and obviously not everyone apply to the same variables.

For example, if you are a nut peddling nit, opening up your game to allow more variance does not mean higher EV.

And for most losing players, lowering variance alone is higher EV.

However, if you are actually a decent thinking player, often higher variance and higher EV go hand in hand.
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Old 08-08-2016, 02:18 PM   #15958
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'd like to hear more anecdotes about how married grinders manage their bankrolls. I feel like my BRM rules would be way too degen for most women to tolerate.
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Old 08-08-2016, 03:50 PM   #15959
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

20 max BI is way too degen? Perhaps you should define BRM first.
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Old 08-08-2016, 04:10 PM   #15960
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I don't think you can define 5-10 hrs/week as grinding anything.

I have a min #BI. After that everything goes to a house down payment. After that I'll likely build for bigger games and spend on big purchases that I/she/we want that we would otherwise have to save for.
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Old 08-08-2016, 04:58 PM   #15961
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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
I rarely play after 10-11PM, but I have never played in a game where everyone is 200BBs deep. Ever.
Last summer I played mostly in pretty reggy (as in same players not skilllevel) games with everyone buying in for 250bb and by the end of the night the average stack was at least 500bb deep + with half the table much higher, it made for a very profitable game if you made the right adjustments as most people really overvalued hands that are the nuts <150bb deep.
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Old 08-08-2016, 05:24 PM   #15962
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I always find it highly suspect when posters say things like deep games are more profitable.

I don't think nut peddling in deep games is profitable, but that's usually the adjustment people make when effective gets deep.
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Old 08-08-2016, 05:32 PM   #15963
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I'll rephrase, people would stack off far lighter than they should given stack depth, for example getting it in with hands like TPTK or AA as an overpair that would ordinarily be fine at shallower stack depths but very deep not so much, meaning hands like SC's, lower pairs and the like became much more valuable as the implied odds were much greater but not too much more difficult to realise vs a number of the regular players. I opted to squeeze a much wider range in position than I would ordinarily as lots of players felt uncomfortable playing that deep (and I guess didn't want to admit it) and as a result way overplayed hands that were of marginal strength.
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Old 08-08-2016, 05:53 PM   #15964
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So if the other player is overplaying certain range of hands, are you adjusting by having a higher strength threshold when x > 150bb goes in the pot?

How often do you play x > 150bb pots when stacks are deep?

It's kind of my point that people adjust by nut peddling because...OMG, stacks are deep and godforbid, people overplay their hands.
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Old 08-08-2016, 07:23 PM   #15965
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by bobboufl11 View Post
I'd like to hear more anecdotes about how married grinders manage their bankrolls. I feel like my BRM rules would be way too degen for most women to tolerate.
I may be atypical, but it works for me is this:

We have enough micro hustles and live pretty frugally so we dont need to bring in that much money.

Mrs Deadfish makes enough(along with out passive streams) to cover about 80% of our monthly expenses. shes super understanding with how poker works.

I basically kick in the delta, act as our spearhead for investments/retirement and hedge against crisis/emergency.
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Old 08-08-2016, 07:50 PM   #15966
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by bobboufl11 View Post
I'd like to hear more anecdotes about how married grinders manage their bankrolls. I feel like my BRM rules would be way too degen for most women to tolerate.
I recently used up a lot of my roll for wedding and honeymoon expenses. It was worth it. I am now more or less back to square one after some poor play, coolers, and negative variance. I don't depend on this income and I don't aspire to play 10/25 some day.

The usual deal is I play at least 20 hours a week. All poker money stays poker money until I have 20BI or there is some sort of exceptional event (like a honeymoon for example...another example might be loss of day job...of course, one should have a liquid cash emergency fund separate from their BR). If I ever grind back up to 20BI, all funds over that amount will be diverted into student loan payments and/or a house down payment fund.

My wife understands the short term luck involved in poker. She is okay with it. But I think more importantly is that she understands it's an enjoyable hobby for me that she doesn't want to **** up for me.
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Old 08-08-2016, 08:16 PM   #15967
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by bobboufl11 View Post
I'd like to hear more anecdotes about how married grinders manage their bankrolls. I feel like my BRM rules would be way too degen for most women to tolerate.
Poker is effectively a hobby for me, my job is the main income.

I play for pennies online and now for low stakes live. Mrs Werebeer was very dubious about me playing poker but I ended up depositing $100 and never had to reload. She's fine with poker now since everything poker related is funded from poker winnings and stored in a separate bank account.
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Old 08-08-2016, 08:46 PM   #15968
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Poker is effectively a hobby for me, my job is the main income.



I play for pennies online and now for low stakes live. Mrs Werebeer was very dubious about me playing poker but I ended up depositing $100 and never had to reload. She's fine with poker now since everything poker related is funded from poker winnings and stored in a separate bank account.


It's amazing how quickly the spouses seem to turn around from "kinda on the fence about poker" to "ok with it" once they see money rolling in. Mrs On The Spot was the exact same way. It's like they all read the same book
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Old 08-08-2016, 08:53 PM   #15969
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

There is a natural stigma ties to poker because it is still gambling for 90% of players.

It's a hard sell to convince anyone not braindead that you can actually beat the game with a "system."
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Old 08-08-2016, 09:00 PM   #15970
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

IMHO, it makes no sense to pillage the LLSNL poker bankroll for life stuff. Winnings need to be constantly re-invested back into the poker roll, so one can move up to higher stakes games ASAP and so the roll can be safely simulated from inevitable downswings that would otherwise drive a player into busto territory.
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Old 08-08-2016, 09:23 PM   #15971
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It's amazing how quickly the spouses seem to turn around from "kinda on the fence about poker" to "ok with it" once they see money rolling in. Mrs On The Spot was the exact same way. It's like they all read the same book
I'd probably use the word 'trickling' instead of 'rolling' to describe my case but yeah. You can explain everything about the game and sample sizes and variation and running bad and whatever. It means nothing to wives until you have a proven winning record, which is probably fair really.
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Old 08-08-2016, 09:41 PM   #15972
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Meh. People think kids are stupid. they are not. Obviously people in this thread think women are stupid.

Waaaay back in 1992 when I decided to be a perfessional gambooler I laid out my plan to my Gf/future bride/mother of my daughter my plan/idea/goal. I explained everything - took my time, answered questions...and really explained where my edge came from and why I would win. She said ,"yep...makes sense".

It aint rocket science. We raised a kid together and she was a stay at home mom.
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Old 08-08-2016, 09:57 PM   #15973
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Women aren't stupid (lol yes they are). They're not all the same though. It's cool that some wives accept it quickly. Others do not. There was a time when mine thought of poker as my mistress. It had nothing to do with the money although she still calls it gambling. It had everything to do with her feeling that poker was more important to me than her. It wasn't, but it took a long time for us to get to the point where she didn't feel threatened by it. It took understanding from both of us to get there. If you have a good relationship, then the hobbies will take care of themselves.

This whole thing is loosely tied to bank rolls but we haven't been banned so I guess it's OK.

I can't wait to get to the point in my BR life where I can spend it on her again. It paid for most of our wedding, all of our honeymoon, her engagement ring, and a lot of bling for her previously. I don't begrudge the expenditures at all. If you've got the money why not spend it? I didn't play poker for a year because i spent my roll on those things, but I also didn't play because I knew we needed that time to get our marriage on good footing. I didn't want her to have any doubt that she>>poker. It seems to be working.



I now have 12.5 BI.
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Old 08-08-2016, 10:03 PM   #15974
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Mrs blackchipsmatter doesn't like it especially when I lose big amount of blackchips. They obviously matter to her too.
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Old 08-08-2016, 10:45 PM   #15975
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I always find it highly suspect when posters say things like deep games are more profitable.
Renton had an excellent post about this some time ago in MHSFR, where he explained that implied odds are not increasing with precise correspondence to stack size. A misconception I see on this forum is an idea that all the chips are in play. In most games there are diminishing returns on implied odds as stacks get deeper, and then a threshold where people just won't stack off without the nuts.

So, unless: preflop raise sizes are becoming larger, postflop raising and reraising ranges are expanding, or postflop calling ranges vs overbets are expanding, there is no difference between playing a deep game and a shallow game.
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