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Old 04-23-2012, 09:33 PM   #1476
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

That "lucky" dealer is lucky only because no one ever caught him with a hanger.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:45 PM   #1477
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Need some input with expected income in 2-5 NLH

hey guys,

I made another thread seperate from this, don't want to repeat myself but here are the cliffnotes:

Im 22 years old

I will have a 25K bankroll by November of this year at which time I will play 2-5 NLH at least 5 days a week 9 hours a day so full time pro.

Ive always won at the 2-5 stakes and have had success at 5-10 as well but dont want to over extend myself

So basically, what can a winning 2-5 NLH player expect to make a year if he were to work the normal 40 hours a week at the poker table?

I know win rate and all that really does matter but,

are alot of 2-5 NLH players able to make $35/hour or is that too high? too low?

I know there are a TON of variables but I know its possible to make a living out of 2-5 NLH but just wondering what I can expect in terms of an hourly rate or yearly income

If i uptick 40 buuy ins I'll move to 5-10 but just asking about 2-5 NLH

thanks!
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:49 PM   #1478
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by serio562 View Post
I do this as a method to save money and express my anger at the dealer without berating them or tilting. That being said, other than cutting the deck, dealers dont have any control over the cards. There is no such thing as lucky dealers, or lucky seats, or calling for setups in order to win.

Dealers say or insinuate they have control over the cards when it is convenient for them such as when a jackpot is hit. Also, when you hit your draws or win two hands in a row.
I don't think this attitude is too unreasonable. If dealers expect more from big pots why shouldn't they expect less when they deal a bad beat? Both attitudes are consistent.

Tipping dealers is a stupid convention that I am glad doesn't exist where I play.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:09 PM   #1479
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It seems dealers want to give bad beats because they usually get a big tip from the winning player.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:24 PM   #1480
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If I am supa-rolled for two games:

2/3 $100-300 and 5-5 $300-1000

but my winrate is $36 in the 2/3 and only about $25 in the bigger game is it worth sacrificing the $11/hour until i'm crushing 5-5 rather than just beating it ?



5-5 is 1K CAP with an average of 3-4 pros at each table (1 or 2 being good pros) and the rest of the players being loose passive or weaktight players with leaks.

2/3 is similar but only 1 pro at each table and 7-8 weaktight or loose passive players who have more leaks that similar style 5-5 players.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:27 PM   #1481
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by serio562 View Post
I do this as a method to save money and express my anger at the dealer without berating them or tilting. That being said, other than cutting the deck, dealers dont have any control over the cards. There is no such thing as lucky dealers, or lucky seats, or calling for setups in order to win.

Dealers say or insinuate they have control over the cards when it is convenient for them such as when a jackpot is hit. Also, when you hit your draws or win two hands in a row.
Why are you angry at the dealer at all?

And I personally think it would be fine to not tip for a BBJP.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:29 PM   #1482
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Re: Need some input with expected income in 2-5 NLH

35 dollars an hour to spend 40 hours a week sitting in a cardroom around a bunch of irritating idiots and degens? No thanks.

I've turned down opportunities to do it at 10/20. The internet is just so much more convenient and profitable.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:31 PM   #1483
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Originally Posted by serio562 View Post
It seems dealers want to give bad beats because they usually get a big tip from the winning player.
While this may or may not be true, what does that have to do with your tips?

And as to the "they expect you to tip bigger when you win a big pot" thing. That is true. And its inconsistent, so I just don't tip much bigger for bit pots. You should tip a little bigger because big pots usually take longer. If you play a hand that is 2x longer than normal you should, imo, tip 2x whatever your baseline is.

But I don't think there should be any perceived obligation to tip more when you win big. And dealers are never rude to me or anything. Those of you that talk about them being rude might just be reading too much into things or maybe you have a rude attitude with dealers.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:33 PM   #1484
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBowskii View Post
If I am supa-rolled for two games:

2/3 $100-300 and 5-5 $300-1000

but my winrate is $36 in the 2/3 and only about $25 in the bigger game is it worth sacrificing the $11/hour until i'm crushing 5-5 rather than just beating it ?



5-5 is 1K CAP with an average of 3-4 pros at each table (1 or 2 being good pros) and the rest of the players being loose passive or weaktight players with leaks.

2/3 is similar but only 1 pro at each table and 7-8 weaktight or loose passive players who have more leaks that similar style 5-5 players.
I don't mean this in a mean way, but if you are still thinking of that many players as "pros" or "good pros" you have some work to do on your game. That doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't play 2/5, but over 1500 or so hours at 2/5 I have played with 2/3 players that I would now consider to be "good pros".
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:38 PM   #1485
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

LA does have some weird crap going on, so I am not that surprised about some of the conceptions and behaviors.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:47 PM   #1486
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by jack492505 View Post
I don't mean this in a mean way, but if you are still thinking of that many players as "pros" or "good pros" you have some work to do on your game. That doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't play 2/5, but over 1500 or so hours at 2/5 I have played with 2/3 players that I would now consider to be "good pros".
I am making the game seem slightly less good than usual weekend games. There is always at least 1 decent-good pro since they changed the structures.

It used to be that they had 5-10 NO CAP and 3-5 $500 cap but this game has served to bridge the two games.

If 5-10 games are running it's more likely that there are no solid pros in the game.

I was more fishing to see people in a similar spot balancing the value of profitability with improving skill, although I don't expect too many twoplustwo posters to be.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:54 PM   #1487
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

The bike is nitty. When he says pros, he means guys who are positionally aware. They are not limping. Some tough dudes in their. I know one asian guy who plays there. He came to one of the indian casinos a long time ago. He was the best player I seen. His play literally taught me just watching him. I'm real good at copying people. If it was 3 or less limpers he raised. He was so good he had 6k in a 300 cap game. I said dude people are going to start leaving if you don't start limping some hands and giving some action. He listened, limped J10o and stack the last big stack. He broke the whole table, **** was amazing.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:59 PM   #1488
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

2-1 that this thread gets locked or all the tipping stuff gets moved to the tipping thread very shortly. #safebet
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:02 PM   #1489
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Re: Need some input with expected income in 2-5 NLH

Where are you playing? I'd say in California probably about $25/hr. Maybe more in Vegas because rake is lower and usually plays a little deeper. So you might pull off $35/hr. Of course this is all with the assumption that you are usually the best player in the game.
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:12 PM   #1490
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Re: Need some input with expected income in 2-5 NLH

Judging by your post, turning pro sounds like a bad idea for you. Are you in college?
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:44 PM   #1491
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I've graduated with an accounting degree already

Not asking opinions on whether I should go pro or not decision has been made already

Just looking for answers to my questions

Thanks for the relevant replies guys!
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:48 PM   #1492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBowskii View Post
If I am supa-rolled for two games:

2/3 $100-300 and 5-5 $300-1000

but my winrate is $36 in the 2/3 and only about $25 in the bigger game is it worth sacrificing the $11/hour until i'm crushing 5-5 rather than just beating it ?



5-5 is 1K CAP with an average of 3-4 pros at each table (1 or 2 being good pros) and the rest of the players being loose passive or weaktight players with leaks.

2/3 is similar but only 1 pro at each table and 7-8 weaktight or loose passive players who have more leaks that similar style 5-5 players.
How many hands have you played at 2/3 NL and how many at 5/5M
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:52 PM   #1493
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

@DaBowski I wouldn't doubt your hourly is lower in that game. The pros are nitty and the bad players are broke.

5/5 I hate that level, stacks get deep but unless its AA vs KK you won't ever get paid in that game. Bunch of nut peddlers.

I will rather play 200nl/300nl the LA pros hate those games because "its not real poker",lmao.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:43 AM   #1494
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Re: Need some input with expected income in 2-5 NLH

Variables include but are not limited to: How good you are.
35/hr seems pretty do-able though. Hardest thing is the discipline to play long, not splash around, not drink/get high and not start hating life when you spend all your time in a casino.
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Old 04-24-2012, 02:38 AM   #1495
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Re: Need some input with expected income in 2-5 NLH

in before busto!
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Old 04-24-2012, 03:11 AM   #1496
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBowskii View Post
If I am supa-rolled for two games:

2/3 $100-300 and 5-5 $300-1000

but my winrate is $36 in the 2/3 and only about $25 in the bigger game is it worth sacrificing the $11/hour until i'm crushing 5-5 rather than just beating it ?



5-5 is 1K CAP with an average of 3-4 pros at each table (1 or 2 being good pros) and the rest of the players being loose passive or weaktight players with leaks.

2/3 is similar but only 1 pro at each table and 7-8 weaktight or loose passive players who have more leaks that similar style 5-5 players.
sample sizes probably aren't big enough but probably play the 5/5 when the game is good and 2/3 the rest of the time until you feel totally comfortable in the 5/5 game. do you always buy in for the max? i'd probably vary my buy in based on who was on my right and left.

also how much is super rolled? for a 1k buyin game i'm assuming at least $30k.
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Old 04-24-2012, 03:14 AM   #1497
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by PokahBlows View Post
5/5 I hate that level, stacks get deep but unless its AA vs KK you won't ever get paid in that game. Bunch of nut peddlers.
sounds like a great game to me.
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:00 AM   #1498
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBowskii View Post
I am making the game seem slightly less good than usual weekend games. There is always at least 1 decent-good pro since they changed the structures.

It used to be that they had 5-10 NO CAP and 3-5 $500 cap but this game has served to bridge the two games.

If 5-10 games are running it's more likely that there are no solid pros in the game.

I was more fishing to see people in a similar spot balancing the value of profitability with improving skill, although I don't expect too many twoplustwo posters to be.
We've seen live at the bike.... its pretty clear the games are pretty good.

solid pros? like who... that Jeremy nitbag? lmao
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Old 04-24-2012, 06:14 AM   #1499
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by masaraksh View Post
We've seen live at the bike.... its pretty clear the games are pretty good.

solid pros? like who... that Jeremy nitbag? lmao
Live at the bike attracts fishy players because it is TV, and draws fish that wanna be televised. In addition Tuesdays and Fridays are incredibly [Tuesday due to tournaments]. The average action is good but not juicy.


I am willing to take a shot at the 1KNL. I don't know sample size but my 2/3 sample is much larger I made my calculations using 3000 hours.

My 5-5 350 hour sample is small and I have gotten a lot of coolers and incorporated less high variance bluffs and selecting my spots. I know my winrate is probably higher but I'm not sure I want to deal with the lame nature of the game unless I'm making considerably MORE
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:04 AM   #1500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBowskii View Post
If I am supa-rolled for two games:

2/3 $100-300 and 5-5 $300-1000

but my winrate is $36 in the 2/3 and only about $25 in the bigger game is it worth sacrificing the $11/hour until i'm crushing 5-5 rather than just beating it ?



5-5 is 1K CAP with an average of 3-4 pros at each table (1 or 2 being good pros) and the rest of the players being loose passive or weaktight players with leaks.

2/3 is similar but only 1 pro at each table and 7-8 weaktight or loose passive players who have more leaks that similar style 5-5 players.
I am in the same spot at the casino i play at. Im going to take a shot and see what happens. I know a lot of players that will play 5-5 or 5-10 elect to stay at 2-5 if the 5-10 game is " not good", full of regular nits.
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