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Old 05-24-2016, 11:58 PM   #14851
johnnyBuz
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

After my recent downswing I am gonna nit roll my way back, although that is mostly due to my change in employment status. Going forward I'll try to keep a minimum of 40k if 2/5 is my main game.
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Old 05-24-2016, 11:59 PM   #14852
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If 99 percent of the people are all in the same situation as he is then yes they should all get help from GA.
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Old 05-25-2016, 12:03 AM   #14853
ibelieveyouoweme$80k
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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If 99 percent of the people are all in the same situation as he is then yes they should all get help from GA.
You don't think the vast majority of people in this world would want to gamble but risk less than $1,000 and are in debt?

Please live in the real world for a few months.
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Old 05-25-2016, 12:05 AM   #14854
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Are you missing the part where he says "the toll it's taken on my mind and health is brutal?"

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Old 05-25-2016, 12:27 AM   #14855
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

It's impossible to estimate someone ones monthly expenses and they vastly vary across the world. For the purposes of this thread I am Only talking about poker BR. For example once I got down to 15k liquid, I decided I couldn't play anymore. I didn't realize this at the time but my poker bankroll is really only the money I feel comfortable losing.

If you have a 10k roll and you drop down from 2/5 at 5k then you actually are playing on a $5k roll. But let's say you have a 30k roll, at what point would you drop down to a lower game, $20k? $15k?

Any how much does playing deep affect these numbers?
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Old 05-25-2016, 12:28 AM   #14856
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Originally Posted by ibelieveyouoweme$80k View Post
So, 99 percent of the people who show up in your poker room should get help from GA?

I don't think so.

1) Did this guy say he was a pro?
2) Did this guy say he didn't have money in the bank?
3) I believe he said 'I have a 3-figure bankroll.'

If this guy can play a few hours on his 3-figure roll and has a job and then has to take a few months off to rebuild from his part-time job, who are you to tell him to stop?

Again, this is all premised on him having a job.
Probably closer to 90%. This includes the staff as many of them have gambling problems
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Old 05-25-2016, 12:30 AM   #14857
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by ibelieveyouoweme$80k View Post
You don't think the vast majority of people in this world would want to gamble but risk less than $1,000 and are in debt?

Please live in the real world for a few months.
I'm not sure what you are saying here. I'm just saying if 99% of the players in the poker room are spending their last moneys on poker when they have significant debt and are close to bankruptcy then they need help.

He should move to Texas where he will be quite far from a casino and where he won't be required to pay his credit card debt.
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Old 05-25-2016, 12:34 AM   #14858
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

You don't gotta pay CC debt in Texas?

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Old 05-25-2016, 12:54 AM   #14859
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibelieveyouoweme$80k View Post
So, 99 percent of the people who show up in your poker room should get help from GA?

I don't think so.

1) Did this guy say he was a pro?
2) Did this guy say he didn't have money in the bank?
3) I believe he said 'I have a 3-figure bankroll.'

If this guy can play a few hours on his 3-figure roll and has a job and then has to take a few months off to rebuild from his part-time job, who are you to tell him to stop?

Again, this is all premised on him having a job.
I would never tell a fish to not come in poker room, counterintuitive don't you think?
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Old 05-25-2016, 12:56 AM   #14860
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by VolumeKing View Post
It's impossible to estimate someone ones monthly expenses and they vastly vary across the world. For the purposes of this thread I am Only talking about poker BR. For example once I got down to 15k liquid, I decided I couldn't play anymore. I didn't realize this at the time but my poker bankroll is really only the money I feel comfortable losing.

If you have a 10k roll and you drop down from 2/5 at 5k then you actually are playing on a $5k roll. But let's say you have a 30k roll, at what point would you drop down to a lower game, $20k? $15k?

Any how much does playing deep affect these numbers?
Depends on your WR and ability to beat the game.
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Old 05-25-2016, 01:00 AM   #14861
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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You don't gotta pay CC debt in Texas?

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Of course not. Why in the hell would we do something silly like that? It will hurt a man's credit score and all that nonsense but they ain't gonna be able to put one of them there liens on ya house or garnish them wages let me tell you what.
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Old 05-25-2016, 01:03 AM   #14862
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Depends on your WR and ability to beat the game.
Dude, this is the one and only VolumeKing that we are talking about. His winrate is high and his ability to beat the game is undeniable. I know from his PGC thread that he enjoys lots of massages at the table and strippers. Also fine dining.
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Old 05-25-2016, 02:21 AM   #14863
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Jesus, I just read that thread. @VolumeKing

I'm a life nit, so I for the life of me cannot understand how you spend every cent you make.

I have worse back problems then you most likely, and I almost never get a massage despite desperately wanting one because I know it won't fix the problem. Only stretching and exercise can. You're spending thousands to feel good. And tbh you're not even putting in that much volume lol
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Old 05-25-2016, 02:23 AM   #14864
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Should rename to Volume King Nit, everything he's not.
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Old 05-25-2016, 03:18 AM   #14865
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by ibelieveyouoweme$80k View Post
So, 99 percent of the people who show up in your poker room should get help from GA?

I don't think so.

1) Did this guy say he was a pro?
2) Did this guy say he didn't have money in the bank?
3) I believe he said 'I have a 3-figure bankroll.'

If this guy can play a few hours on his 3-figure roll and has a job and then has to take a few months off to rebuild from his part-time job, who are you to tell him to stop?

Again, this is all premised on him having a job.
i have a job pays 60k per year and who the hell is that ass to tell me to join GA when the majority of gambling degen congregate on this very site 24 7
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Old 05-25-2016, 05:31 AM   #14866
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by VolumeKing View Post
What kind of bankroll would have kept you guys from going broke? I really feel that 15k is kinda the minimum BR needed
Sorry, mine wasn't at 2/5 nl I misread the question. Like others it was more a combination of life/habits than a pure downswing wiping out a dedicated bankroll though (and I didn't really go completely busted my last dime broke a job has just made sense at different times).

Just as an example a 15K bankroll at 2/5 when you're making $35 an hour, don't have other cashflow, and have a 5K monthly nut is a good point to realize some things need to change. A person with a 5K bankroll and different specifics could have a much better chance of staying in action. All "bankrolls" aren't created equal just comparing number to number.
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Old 05-25-2016, 06:00 AM   #14867
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
I'm not sure what you are saying here. I'm just saying if 99% of the players in the poker room are spending their last moneys on poker when they have significant debt and are close to bankruptcy then they need help.

He should move to Texas where he will be quite far from a casino and where he won't be required to pay his credit card debt.
99% is high but it's a high number. Not as high in poker as in other forms of gambling but a very high number. The median net worth of a player in a typical room is probably less than zero (and poker is a much better scene than other gambling).
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Old 05-25-2016, 08:15 AM   #14868
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by hellofaplaya44 View Post
Unfortunately im one of those that plays with a 3 figure bankroll and the toll its taken on my mind and health is brutal. Maybe when i file bankruptcy to pay off my cc debt ill have peace of mind and play better

Ignoring the issues of meeting financial obligations outside of poker, there are two distinct benefits of being nitty in regard to b/r requirements.

The first is the actual risk of ruin. This doesn't really impact a rec player because busting a poker roll or it's equivalent just means you stop a hobby for a while.

Obv for a pro this is deadly. Busting a roll for a pro is like a carpenter losing his tools.

But actual risk of ruin at any given time is only affecting a small percentage of players.

But the second reason IMO affects most players most of the time. That is decision making at the table. It is simply easier to make the correct play in big or potentially big pots when you are over rolled for a game.

Look at a difficult decision in a 2k pot at 2/5. Now consider that same situation but make the stakes $0.20/$0.50 and it's a $200 pot. Would calling that shove or making that bet or w/e be significantly easier?

That is the impact of being over or comfortably rolled for a game IMO and can impact a player's wr on a daily basis.
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Old 05-25-2016, 09:02 AM   #14869
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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i have a job pays 60k per year and who the hell is that ass to tell me to join GA when the majority of gambling degen congregate on this very site 24 7
Lol sick troll guy.

[ X ] considering bankruptcy
[ X ] poker swings taking toll on him physically and mentally
[ X ] outraged that someone thinks he needs help

Ur reaction is pathetic but typical in this society
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Old 05-25-2016, 09:07 AM   #14870
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by WOAT1Time View Post
99% is high but it's a high number. Not as high in poker as in other forms of gambling but a very high number. The median net worth of a player in a typical room is probably less than zero (and poker is a much better scene than other gambling).
Maybe Ed Miller should write a new book and apply that 1% to this very topic
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Old 05-25-2016, 09:13 AM   #14871
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Originally Posted by cAmmAndo View Post
Ignoring the issues of meeting financial obligations outside of poker, there are two distinct benefits of being nitty in regard to b/r requirements.

The first is the actual risk of ruin. This doesn't really impact a rec player because busting a poker roll or it's equivalent just means you stop a hobby for a while.

Obv for a pro this is deadly. Busting a roll for a pro is like a carpenter losing his tools.

But actual risk of ruin at any given time is only affecting a small percentage of players.

But the second reason IMO affects most players most of the time. That is decision making at the table. It is simply easier to make the correct play in big or potentially big pots when you are over rolled for a game.

Look at a difficult decision in a 2k pot at 2/5. Now consider that same situation but make the stakes $0.20/$0.50 and it's a $200 pot. Would calling that shove or making that bet or w/e be significantly easier?

That is the impact of being over or comfortably rolled for a game IMO and can impact a player's wr on a daily basis.
Some of these pros still have something to fall back on in the event they go broke. They might be fathering 3 or 4 kids while the wife is unemployed and reaping the benefits of public assistance , health ins food stamps and the other little perks associated with being unemployed. Correct me if i am wrong but poker player cannot be listed as a profession right? Then you have guys like Jonathan Little who is married to an attorney which is something special to fall back on during the brutal downswings or worse that occur at the table . Smart guy huh?
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Old 05-25-2016, 09:56 AM   #14872
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Originally Posted by YGOchamp View Post
Jesus, I just read that thread. @VolumeKing

I'm a life nit, so I for the life of me cannot understand how you spend every cent you make.

I have worse back problems then you most likely, and I almost never get a massage despite desperately wanting one because I know it won't fix the problem. Only stretching and exercise can. You're spending thousands to feel good. And tbh you're not even putting in that much volume lol
You guys can't see the "in training" part of my screen name? I'm sure your back is worse than mine but I don't need massages anymore so I would say it worked.
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Old 05-25-2016, 09:59 AM   #14873
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by hellofaplaya44 View Post
Some of these pros still have something to fall back on in the event they go broke. They might be fathering 3 or 4 kids while the wife is unemployed and reaping the benefits of public assistance , health ins food stamps and the other little perks associated with being unemployed.
Generalize much?


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Correct me if i am wrong but poker player cannot be listed as a profession right?

So all the pros list what as their profession on their tax forms? Luck box? Charlatan?
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Old 05-25-2016, 10:22 AM   #14874
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Claiming unemployment and obtaining government benefits while making money playing poker is called "tax fraud." It also makes you a POS in my opinion. If that seems harsh to you then consider that the government takes about $40k from me every year to pay for those POS players.
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Old 05-25-2016, 10:30 AM   #14875
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Claiming unemployment and obtaining government benefits while making money playing poker is called "tax fraud." It also makes you a POS in my opinion. If that seems harsh to you then consider that the government takes about $40k from me every year to pay for those POS players.
This is not tax fraud, it could be unemployment fraud if you had made a living previously gambling. Otherwise(at least in my state) , poker is considered gambling and has nothing to do with your unemployment benefits or job searching. This is what I was told last time I was on unemployment a few years back.

the govt takes money from you every year to fund things like mortgage deductions, $800 billion bailouts, and corporate welfare. Do you really think a few thousand degens cost you more than Apple hiding it's cash overseas?
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