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Old 05-23-2016, 07:14 AM   #14726
hellofaplaya44
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I have been on a downswing for more than 4 months playing only $1 $2 but when i read about the downswing $$ amts on this thread it makes mine seem paltry. Comparing $$ downswings is not the issue . The issue is losing and i hate losing . Every weekend im making my daily deposit at the Borgata $1 $ 2 table constantly losing coin flips out kicked with the nuts it just goes on and on and i am getting sick and tired of it. They use the term variance as a substitute for degen gambling same way they use the term "unit" as opposed to toupee in a hair restoration clinic. It just sounds better but all its doing is alleviating from the truth . Anyhow i basically came in here to find out what is average buy in for $1 $2 ? I have been buying in for 50 to 75 BB and i think that might be relatively small but then again the more i put out on the table the more they will takeith away
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Old 05-23-2016, 07:16 AM   #14727
YGOchamp
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If you hate losing more than you enjoy winning, you sir have mental leaks.
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Old 05-23-2016, 07:21 AM   #14728
hellofaplaya44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VolumeKing View Post
I was just posting about having 10k swings at $5 big blind games. I think they are normal and a $16k downswing is abnormal but not unrealistic
At least you have the balls to post your losses in dollar amts where others will either boast about their profits, say they broke even or made a few bucks. Last two are usually lies. Then you have the rare few that lie about how much they lost citing astronomical figures so their friends don't feel bad after they lost. If you stoop to that level you are the lowest of the low in my opinion. Honestly from a personal standpoint if i lost 16k i would have to give up poker altogether and that would kill me. I place a cap on how much i lose only because i dont want to give up the game as a hobby and if i ever lost real big like five figure range, i without question would have to find a new hobby . I hope things turn around for you so far it has not for me
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Old 05-23-2016, 11:44 AM   #14729
Richard Parker
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

People vent all the time in this thread, and just remember, very few players actually win in poker.
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Old 05-23-2016, 12:22 PM   #14730
miamicheats
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

You would think no one ever loses...

Population bias though


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Please be shutting the **** up zoltan
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Old 05-23-2016, 12:34 PM   #14731
munlochi
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Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
People vent all the time in this thread, and just remember, very few players actually win in poker.
This.

I'll admit this month has been very trying for me. Every shot at 2/5 for me has failed miserably.

I gave my kid sister 4000 from my roll for some medical bills and immediately the doomswitch was turned on. Run bad continued for 2 weeks. Lost my confidence in my regular game and started losing there almost daily. A game I had been crushing for months. It was all directly related to my mindset. As horrible as it sounds despite thinking my mind was clear and each day was new I was, in fact, expecting to lose each day and, in turn, I did. Seriously considered quitting altogether.

Taking a break for a few days helped tremendously.

Richard Parker is completely right though. Most players lose. Most players won't be talking about the losses because it isn't fun to do so.

Anyways since this is winrate thread I should probably talk about it a little:

Ran my $1/$2 $300max bankroll requirements for my winrate this year and it made me laugh

400 hours
$23.99/hr
Standard deviation: 160.22
1% Risk of ruin calculator
Bankroll requirement: $2463.90

Now obviously I took money out for my sister once but I'd never feel comfortable with that little in my game. That's like 8 buyins. I'm lucky I haven't been swongy in this game but my shots at 2/5 have been meh.
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Old 05-23-2016, 12:39 PM   #14732
ZippyThePinhead
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Playing 1/3 300 cap with Mississippi straddle I had a 1300 upswing on Friday night followed by a 900 downswing Saturday night.

Wee - fun times

Down swings being debated in the thread seem plausible to me.


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Old 05-23-2016, 01:23 PM   #14733
Duke0424
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by munlochi View Post
This.

I'll admit this month has been very trying for me. Every shot at 2/5 for me has failed miserably.

I gave my kid sister 4000 from my roll for some medical bills and immediately the doomswitch was turned on. Run bad continued for 2 weeks. Lost my confidence in my regular game and started losing there almost daily. A game I had been crushing for months. It was all directly related to my mindset. As horrible as it sounds despite thinking my mind was clear and each day was new I was, in fact, expecting to lose each day and, in turn, I did. Seriously considered quitting altogether.

Taking a break for a few days helped tremendously.

Richard Parker is completely right though. Most players lose. Most players won't be talking about the losses because it isn't fun to do so.

Anyways since this is winrate thread I should probably talk about it a little:

Ran my $1/$2 $300max bankroll requirements for my winrate this year and it made me laugh

400 hours
$23.99/hr
Standard deviation: 160.22
1% Risk of ruin calculator
Bankroll requirement: $2463.90

Now obviously I took money out for my sister once but I'd never feel comfortable with that little in my game. That's like 8 buyins. I'm lucky I haven't been swongy in this game but my shots at 2/5 have been meh.

Lol so standard dude, i bought a new car last year and spent the next 600 hours of poker making under $10/hr
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Old 05-23-2016, 01:30 PM   #14734
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will 3rd that. any major purchase is a good 70% to activate doomswitch any major purchase/large expense that is completely unexpected is like 98% minimum probably higher.
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:15 PM   #14735
hellofaplaya44
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like anything else in gambling poker is a losing entity. Not as bad as BJ or craps which is heavily house favored . Then you read the BS about poker pros. There is no such thing as a pro. 52 card deck if the cards just happen to run in your favor you win. You can take a 3yr old sit him at the table turn over his hand for him see the flop and tell him yaaay he won. Many of you might think my thinking is screwy but when you think about it makes a lot of sense. I wont deny there is some skill involved exploiting weakness of opponents finding key spots etc but bottom line its all about luck of the draw . Play ABC poker and still lose what does that really tell you ?
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:20 PM   #14736
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellofaplaya44 View Post
like anything else in gambling poker is a losing entity. Not as bad as BJ or craps which is heavily house favored . Then you read the BS about poker pros. There is no such thing as a pro. 52 card deck if the cards just happen to run in your favor you win. You can take a 3yr old sit him at the table turn over his hand for him see the flop and tell him yaaay he won. Many of you might think my thinking is screwy but when you think about it makes a lot of sense. I wont deny there is some skill involved exploiting weakness of opponents finding key spots etc but bottom line its all about luck of the draw . Play ABC poker and still lose what does that really tell you ?
It tells me that you should keep playing, and that I want you at my table.
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:24 PM   #14737
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellofaplaya44 View Post
Play ABC poker and still lose what does that really tell you ?
Tells me not to play ABC poker.
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:48 PM   #14738
Mr Sandbag
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellofaplaya44 View Post
like anything else in gambling poker is a losing entity. Not as bad as BJ or craps which is heavily house favored . Then you read the BS about poker pros. There is no such thing as a pro. 52 card deck if the cards just happen to run in your favor you win. You can take a 3yr old sit him at the table turn over his hand for him see the flop and tell him yaaay he won. Many of you might think my thinking is screwy but when you think about it makes a lot of sense. I wont deny there is some skill involved exploiting weakness of opponents finding key spots etc but bottom line its all about luck of the draw . Play ABC poker and still lose what does that really tell you ?
So why are you here?
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:52 PM   #14739
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellofaplaya44 View Post
like anything else in gambling poker is a losing entity. Not as bad as BJ or craps which is heavily house favored . Then you read the BS about poker pros. There is no such thing as a pro. 52 card deck if the cards just happen to run in your favor you win. You can take a 3yr old sit him at the table turn over his hand for him see the flop and tell him yaaay he won. Many of you might think my thinking is screwy but when you think about it makes a lot of sense. I wont deny there is some skill involved exploiting weakness of opponents finding key spots etc but bottom line its all about luck of the draw . Play ABC poker and still lose what does that really tell you ?
screen name hell of a playa, but the cards are the only thing that matters
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:54 PM   #14740
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

hellofaplaya44

If you are trolling congrats you got me.

I have been in the gamboolin biz for a long time and have seen it ruin a lot of lives. Based on your posts it seems highly likely that you have gambling issues. I hope for your sake you find the strength to stay away from the casino as it will not end well for you. I am not a big fan of 12 step programs but they obv have one for gambling (gamblers anonymous). If you cant stay away from the room without support you may want to stop by one of their meetings
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Old 05-23-2016, 03:24 PM   #14741
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Much worse than 21 or craps for typical player. The guys lol min buying 1/2 or whatever would be so much better off just taking cheap baccarat flips (assuming we're just talking about $). That's also why I've never understood why poker was so frowned upon especially by smaller rooms. They juice the low stakes poker games a ridiculous amount compared to the low rent tables. Plus it would take a lot less effort to steal away poker customers from competitors and they're generally very loyal tickets.
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:17 PM   #14742
Richard Parker
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Per table profit is much higher in any pit games than poker.
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:44 PM   #14743
suited fours
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Per table profit is much higher in any pit games than poker.
That depends on your system.
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:53 PM   #14744
munlochi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOAT1Time View Post
Much worse than 21 or craps for typical player. The guys lol min buying 1/2 or whatever would be so much better off just taking cheap baccarat flips (assuming we're just talking about $). That's also why I've never understood why poker was so frowned upon especially by smaller rooms. They juice the low stakes poker games a ridiculous amount compared to the low rent tables. Plus it would take a lot less effort to steal away poker customers from competitors and they're generally very loyal tickets.
What is weird is I always used to think like this. One day a few months ago a local short stacker asked me about my hourly and in turn showed me a spreadsheet of his. Normally I would tell anyone else to mind their business but I was curious to see what a $50 buy in player at $1/$2 300 max would make. This guy has one move preflop shove or fold. Even a $1 chip in the small blind he mucks almost instantly. He's a bonus hunter between the 2 poker playing casinos. He goes where the promotions are. Everyone knows this. They even have names for him.

I got to look at his spreadsheet for about 5 minutes and was amazed that over 200 hours he was averaging $15.50 an hour. I thought for sure he was a loser in the game. He told me this is without any promo money added in as well.

In Indiana they have to post the financials each month for all of the casinos. My small place looked something like this:

Slots: 15 million profit
Table games: 2 million profit
Poker: 145,000 (16 tables, never run more then 3 normally unless tournament)
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:58 PM   #14745
suited fours
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Originally Posted by munlochi View Post
What is weird is I always used to think like this. One day a few months ago a local short stacker asked me about my hourly and in turn showed me a spreadsheet of his. Normally I would tell anyone else to mind their business but I was curious to see what a $50 buy in player at $1/$2 300 max would make. This guy has one move preflop shove or fold. Even a $1 chip in the small blind he mucks almost instantly. He's a bonus hunter between the 2 poker playing casinos. He goes where the promotions are. Everyone knows this. They even have names for him.

I got to look at his spreadsheet for about 5 minutes and was amazed that over 200 hours he was averaging $15.50 an hour. I thought for sure he was a loser in the game. He told me this is without any promo money added in as well.

In Indiana they have to post the financials each month for all of the casinos. My small place looked something like this:

Slots: 15 million profit
Table games: 2 million profit
Poker: 145,000 (16 tables, never run more then 3 normally unless tournament)
Does he coach?
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Old 05-23-2016, 06:00 PM   #14746
munlochi
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Does he coach?
I'll ask him next time I see Fanny Pack John. I mean him, when I see him
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Old 05-23-2016, 06:01 PM   #14747
spikeraw22
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellofaplaya44 View Post
like anything else in gambling poker is a losing entity. Not as bad as BJ or craps which is heavily house favored . Then you read the BS about poker pros. There is no such thing as a pro. 52 card deck if the cards just happen to run in your favor you win. You can take a 3yr old sit him at the table turn over his hand for him see the flop and tell him yaaay he won. Many of you might think my thinking is screwy but when you think about it makes a lot of sense. I wont deny there is some skill involved exploiting weakness of opponents finding key spots etc but bottom line its all about luck of the draw . Play ABC poker and still lose what does that really tell you ?
Tells me I need to start sitting at tables full of 3 year olds.


So if a hypothetical player was able to make all of his profits from moms how down winnings, would it be luck of the draw?
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Old 05-23-2016, 06:12 PM   #14748
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Originally Posted by munlochi View Post
This guy has one move preflop shove or fold. Even a $1 chip in the small blind he mucks almost instantly. He's a bonus hunter between the 2 poker playing casinos. He goes where the promotions are.
This sounds like a correct short stack strategy. So he could very well be a winner. I'd believe that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by munlochi View Post
I got to look at his spreadsheet for about 5 minutes and was amazed that over 200 hours he was averaging $15.50 an hour. I thought for sure he was a loser in the game. He told me this is without any promo money added in as well.
Small sample size. While his strategy sounds solid enough, it's hard to say if he's just running well. I'd be interested to see how he fairs with the promo money added.
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Old 05-23-2016, 06:24 PM   #14749
munlochi
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Originally Posted by Angrist View Post
This sounds like a correct short stack strategy. So he could very well be a winner. I'd believe that.



Small sample size. While his strategy sounds solid enough, it's hard to say if he's just running well. I'd be interested to see how he fairs with the promo money added.
I know that he won 5 CPC main event seats at Horseshoe. This was the legend behind this guy and his bonus hunting ways. For the month leading up to the event they were high carding one table a day at something like 9am, 5pm and 11pm.

He was there playing 9am. Told me that out of 30 days they picked his table (typically 2 to 4 tables going then) 11 times and 5 of the 11 he was picked. They actually had to change the rules just for him because before this they were no transferrable and not eligible for cash.

These are $2,000 seats with 3 or 4 flights. He played in one of the flights and busted out. The other 4 entries they gave him Horseshoe tournament lammers for $8,000 which he sold to others and might have kept one buyin for WSOP Circuits later this year.

Pretty amazing.

Sometimes when I go into my casino I see him staring at slots. He'll sit at a table then go for walks because the $2 an hour in comps is more then the Horseshoe.

I'm glad that we are friendly. He tells me about his slots, freeplay and promotions theories. I would never play the way he does but I can't argue his results anymore.
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Old 05-23-2016, 06:33 PM   #14750
Richard Parker
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This guy has one move preflop shove or fold. Even a $1 chip in the small blind he mucks almost instantly.
What does he do after he doubles up?
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