Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Live No-Limit Hold’em Cash Discussion of no-limit hold’em live cash games of all stakes.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-17-2016, 08:12 AM   #14576
MikeStarr
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,978
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by cAmmAndo View Post
You say bi is 500 max but how do avg stack sizes compare in the two games.

500 cap is a deep 1/2 game so a higher we is possible but with that rake it's certainly possible you are running above expectation in the 2nd game.
Looks to me like hes playing 2/5...not 1/2.
MikeStarr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 08:26 AM   #14577
cAmmAndo
The Situation
 
cAmmAndo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Philly
Posts: 4,712
*** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Double post
cAmmAndo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 08:29 AM   #14578
cAmmAndo
The Situation
 
cAmmAndo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Philly
Posts: 4,712
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Looks to me like hes playing 2/5...not 1/2.

Jezus I gotta pay attention. Still on my first cup of coffee.
cAmmAndo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 08:33 AM   #14579
spikeraw22
The Situation
 
spikeraw22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SB is the new BTN
Posts: 8,732
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

For comparison my casinos take max 6+1 and that seems high.
spikeraw22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 09:11 AM   #14580
JackInDaCrak
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
JackInDaCrak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,534
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

$14 rake... Usurious?
JackInDaCrak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 11:41 AM   #14581
gobbledygeek
Poet Laureate of LLSNL
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 33,396
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidBurn View Post
Hey guys i'm a long time lurker, first time poster, sorry for the upcoming wall of text. I started grinding 2/5 full time about a year ago and have learned a lot from reading HH's so for that I must thank you guys. I've never bothered to add any feedback because my opinion on the hand is already more or less represented (usually fold pre ).

After a recent downswing I started analyzing/filtering my stats a bit more and found something I couldn't believe and have no explanation for. Any feedback would be HUGELY appreciated.....

I live in a major North American city with 2 casinos. I generally divide my time pretty evenly between the 2 to keep from feeling like i'm in a robotic routine. What I found after 2k+ hours is my winrate is drastically different between the 2 even though the rake is similar and the player pool is very interchangeable. (side note: I actively table select when possible and always try to get position on the obvious whales)

Casino 1 is downtown, $500 max, 9 handed, rake is %10 capped at $10 + $1 for bbj, pretty much no comps whatsoever and food is expensive. This place is known to have a bit of a looser, gambly game but can definitely be dead and reg infested from time to time, usually only 2 or 3 tables to choose from. Here are my results from there:

[IMG][/IMG]

Casino 2 is in a suburb, $500 max, 9 handed, rake is %10 capped at $14 + $1bbj, if you play enough basically your food is taken care of. This place is the classier of the two and will generally attract the more megalomaniac types with the sunglasses and pokerstar jackets (not necessarily crushers but most probably break even types) but there are still plenty of horrific players in the pool who make huge mistakes and give it away pretty easily. Always a minimum of 2 tables open and up to 6 on weekends. Here are my results:

[IMG][/IMG]


This can't just purely be "bad luck" at casino 2 can it? It does feel like I'm card dead/running bad there often plus the extra rake but can it really cut my WR by 2 thirds? Am i just a mediocre poker player with access to a juicy game ? I know there is something to be learned and an adaptation to be made but i just can't get a good perspective on it. If anybody has any wisdom to offer I would really appreciate it! Thanks!
I would actually argue this goes back to my theory that 1,000 hours ain't ****.

GseriouslyG
gobbledygeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 11:53 AM   #14582
Angrist
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,884
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'm actually a bit torn between calling this just random sampling differences even at 1000 hours, and the difference in the rake. That extra $4/hand in decent pots is a killer. It's bleeding money from you when you win, and from the fish as they pass chips back and forth, leaving them with less for you to take.

I think I'd just play in the room with lower rake out of general principle.
Angrist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 11:53 AM   #14583
de4df1sh
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
de4df1sh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: mobtown
Posts: 6,893
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Hi guys!

First off, let me state that I totally understand this is very subjective matter and has alot to do with the individual.

However, I am curious to see what finance minded individuals would suggest for my specific circumstances.

Monthly Nut: ~2200-2500 (factoring in savings/investments, entertainment, fixed and non fixed expenses and a 10% increase for anything overlooked)

Income:

1) Mrs Deadfish works a pretty stable, albeit commission based job and brings in aprox $2000 after taxes every month, she works as a hairstylist and there is a solid job market for her and potential raises/bonuses.

2) I play poker fulltime, Expect to earn 20-30k a year pre-tax

3) Rental income, we have a small apt attached to our house and earn $500/month, could potentially earn more but we rent to family and cut them a good deal.

Liabilities:

1) We have an older but solid house

2) two dogs in good health

3) two cars, one from 2013 and one from 2004

Other notes: We are not very materialistic and live below our means.


Any advice or suggestions are greatly appreciated!

EDIT: I should note the current amount being allocated to investments/savings is <$100/mo
de4df1sh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 12:36 PM   #14584
de4df1sh
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
de4df1sh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: mobtown
Posts: 6,893
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by de4df1sh View Post
Hi guys!

First off, let me state that I totally understand this is very subjective matter and has alot to do with the individual.

However, I am curious to see what finance minded individuals would suggest for my specific circumstances.

Monthly Nut: ~2200-2500 (factoring in savings/investments, entertainment, fixed and non fixed expenses and a 10% increase for anything overlooked)

Income:

1) Mrs Deadfish works a pretty stable, albeit commission based job and brings in aprox $2000 after taxes every month, she works as a hairstylist and there is a solid job market for her and potential raises/bonuses.

2) I play poker fulltime, Expect to earn 20-30k a year pre-tax

3) Rental income, we have a small apt attached to our house and earn $500/month, could potentially earn more but we rent to family and cut them a good deal.

Liabilities:

1) We have an older but solid house

2) two dogs in good health

3) two cars, one from 2013 and one from 2004

Other notes: We are not very materialistic and live below our means.


Any advice or suggestions are greatly appreciated!

EDIT: I should note the current amount being allocated to investments/savings is <$100/mo
haz teh dum today.

Looking for advice on emergency fund amount.
de4df1sh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 12:41 PM   #14585
Snowball2
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Snowball2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8,640
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackInDaCrak View Post
$14 rake... Usurious?
I've played there before, and pretty sure it's unbeatable in the long run by most people, so it's weird that he thought there were more "grinder" types there.

The fact that $14 is taken out of every $140+ pot is a joke. Think about it, if you win a pot HU you only win ~$56 instead of ~$70. Your win rate is gunna take a massive hit.

Play downtown ainec
Snowball2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 12:47 PM   #14586
bwslim69
I'm a Diva, Bruh
 
bwslim69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: TPS reports
Posts: 24,040
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by de4df1sh View Post
haz teh dum today.

Looking for advice on emergency fund amount.
3-6x monthly nut is the old standard response. But I would think in your case you might need to be on the higher end of that since your monthly nut is so low but some emergency expenses are relatively fixed in cost.
bwslim69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 12:49 PM   #14587
de4df1sh
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
de4df1sh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: mobtown
Posts: 6,893
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwslim69 View Post
3-6x monthly nut is the old standard response. But I would think in your case you might need to be on the higher end of that since your monthly nut is so low but some emergency expenses are relatively fixed in cost.
having the dumdum today.

Can you clarify?

Thanks!
de4df1sh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 12:54 PM   #14588
Angrist
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,884
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by de4df1sh View Post
having the dumdum today.

Can you clarify?

Thanks!
He means that you don't count your Netflix, Cable TV, and Starbucks budgets. Anything that you can cut without starving. In a true emergency you scale back those things.
Angrist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 12:54 PM   #14589
Richard Parker
banned
 
Richard Parker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Right Side of Variance
Posts: 13,951
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Certain costs could still hurt you really bad even if your monthly nuts is low.
Richard Parker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 12:54 PM   #14590
bwslim69
I'm a Diva, Bruh
 
bwslim69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: TPS reports
Posts: 24,040
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by de4df1sh View Post
having the dumdum today.

Can you clarify?

Thanks!
getting a major car repair costs XX whether your monthly nut is 2k or 20k, same for some home repairs/replacements, etc.

Spoiler:
bwslim69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 12:56 PM   #14591
de4df1sh
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
de4df1sh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: mobtown
Posts: 6,893
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Ah that makes a bit of sense,

you still think it should scale up even though I have multiple income streams?
de4df1sh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 12:57 PM   #14592
Richard Parker
banned
 
Richard Parker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Right Side of Variance
Posts: 13,951
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Guy with 20k income can probably cut back a lot easier to sustain the hit, where as 2k income is already barebone, so you need a lot more emergency funds.
Richard Parker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 03:25 PM   #14593
DavidBurn
stranger
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 3
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrist View Post
I'm actually a bit torn between calling this just random sampling differences even at 1000 hours, and the difference in the rake. That extra $4/hand in decent pots is a killer. It's bleeding money from you when you win, and from the fish as they pass chips back and forth, leaving them with less for you to take.

I think I'd just play in the room with lower rake out of general principle.
Thanks for your opinion man, after really thinking about it I've come to the same conclusion. Its a mix of run bad, less exploitable (ie: weak tight grinder wannabe) opponents and higher rake. I also probably spew a bit more there out of frustration as well. Logical adaptation would be to stop playing there I guess
DavidBurn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 03:40 PM   #14594
spikeraw22
The Situation
 
spikeraw22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SB is the new BTN
Posts: 8,732
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

One thing many people overlook is your debt load. If you have no debt then you don't need as big of an emergency fund. If you have car/house payments you can't afford to miss then not so much.

My wife and I have spent our first year of marriage doing very little financially other than bringing our income to bear on our debt situation and it's paying off.
spikeraw22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 07:05 PM   #14595
Wealth$
adept
 
Wealth$'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: rose that grew from concrete(2p2)
Posts: 1,162
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

what's the best app to use for logging live sessions? input appreciate, thx
Wealth$ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 09:56 PM   #14596
Bulljive
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Value Town Brah
Posts: 881
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wealth$ View Post
what's the best app to use for logging live sessions? input appreciate, thx
Pornhub
Bulljive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 10:15 PM   #14597
bip!
Slow Pony
 
bip!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: not on urban dictionary...
Posts: 13,671
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulljive View Post
Pornhub


Lol'd
bip! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 12:08 AM   #14598
Duke0424
self-banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 13,365
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

ok ok the american people have been begging me to post a 2/5 graph with a (legitimate???) sample so here goes

my total 2/5 dating from february of 2014 - May 2016, includes like 7-800 hours of $500max:

Spoiler:


this graph is only deeper 2/5

Spoiler:


longest break-even was like 300 hours

longest stretch under minimum wage was like 500 hours

biggest downswing ~$5.5k lol

biggest upswing upswing $50k in 250 hours

youre welcome

edit:

also, just for fun heres my graph that includes 1/2 and 5/10 and some plo, not a huge difference from total 2/5 graph, but it gives 900 more hours

Spoiler:

Last edited by Duke0424; 05-18-2016 at 12:16 AM.
Duke0424 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 12:26 AM   #14599
KatoKrazy
Pooh-Bah
 
KatoKrazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 4,226
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

The graph clearly shows profit, what good do your little squiggles do?
KatoKrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 12:29 AM   #14600
Duke0424
self-banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 13,365
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by KatoKrazy View Post
The graph clearly shows profit, what good do your little squiggles do?
youre interested in the squiggles???????????????

damn what a waste of 9 minutes to post that

Duke0424 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive