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Old 04-24-2016, 03:08 PM   #14376
Mat the Gambler
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
It's not rocket science to you, but it is brain surgery to most.
Losing poker players don't lose because they're not capable of playing correctly. They lose because they value having fun over maximizing EV. Everyone who gambles at a casino at every other game except poker knows the odds are against them. They win some of the time, but they know in the long run the house will always win. They play anyway because they enjoy the thrill of the variance. Maybe they'll be the one to win the jackpot today.

It's the same thing when a fish chases a flush draw even though they're not getting correct odds and the board is already paired. They came to gambool.
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Old 04-24-2016, 03:28 PM   #14377
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Losing poker players don't lose because they're not capable of playing correctly. They lose because they value having fun over maximizing EV.
I disagree for the most part. This implies that losing players could make correct decisions whenever they choose. Losing players don't know proper ranging, combinatorics, pot odds, position, etc. Hell, most still bet "to see where they're at."
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Old 04-24-2016, 04:09 PM   #14378
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I disagree as well. Most people are simply incapable of basic math and rational thoughts.
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Old 04-24-2016, 07:02 PM   #14379
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat the Gambler View Post
Losing poker players don't lose because they're not capable of playing correctly.
99% of losing players are incapable of playing correctly optimally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat the Gambler View Post
They lose because they value having fun over maximizing EV.
Remaining 1% chooses to play for fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat the Gambler View Post
Everyone who gambles at a casino at every other game except poker knows the odds are against them. They win some of the time, but they know in the long run the house will always win.
Again, I would say 99% of them walking into the casino thinking they can beat house. People don't think about odds and most certainly don't understand them.

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They play anyway because they enjoy the thrill of the variance. Maybe they'll be the one to win the jackpot today.
To most, just like poker, variance just means bad luck. The thought of winning jackpot is the same reason why people buy lottery tickets and go to casino.

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It's the same thing when a fish chases a flush draw even though they're not getting correct odds and the board is already paired. They came to gambool.
Nope, they think if they make it, they win, 50/50.

I mean, just look at this forum, how many people actually utilize pot odds in any of the HH discussions? Few to none, and people here are suppose to be "better."
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Old 04-25-2016, 08:41 AM   #14380
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Question. My live playing sample size is super lol as I'm still getting used to the game (130ish hours). How do you classify promotional wins? In my phone app, I just add the amount into my winnings. But in my spreadsheet, I also add them in but make a note beside it. Should we count it in the winrate, kind of like rakeback?
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Old 04-25-2016, 10:56 AM   #14381
Mr Sandbag
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Just make a separate column for it. Then you can easily calculate profit/WR with and without promos.
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Old 04-25-2016, 11:02 AM   #14382
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I count mine in totals, the drop comes out of my pots i win so I figure the bonus should come back in. Prolly totally wrong but thats how i do it.
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Old 04-25-2016, 05:31 PM   #14383
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Obv. Siculamente sucks at reading souls, which is what live poker is all about after you learn the fundamentals.


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Old 04-25-2016, 05:33 PM   #14384
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Obv. Siculamente sucks at reading souls, which is what live poker is all about after you learn the fundamentals.


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Being an atheist gives me an edge, as I have no soul to read.

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Old 04-25-2016, 05:35 PM   #14385
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Nah, you just have a soul that prob spent 8+ yrs in Catholic school


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Old 04-29-2016, 04:37 PM   #14386
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I do have raw, negative feelings in general about poker/ gaming industry but that does not make me a bitter person, nor does it mean i don't make money playing poker. All it means is I have a realistic, skeptic view which is good imo.

its funny that people focus on / only comment about my tone and don't want to get into a debate or refute facts or some realistic viewpoints i've made in this thread. much easier to blast away at low hanging fruit to discredit someone

i guess on this forum if a person isn't stroking someones genius/ ego it must mean they are a bitter conceited hater. tbh if you can't look past my tone and try to look objectively and realistically at the facts- taking in information from all sides then you guys need to grow some skin.

squid- i never said you weren't good at poker or that your winrate was attributed to only running hot. if you think that way then please reread what i said itt. however i did imply that you have a huge ego if you think 10bb/hr is normal and sustainable without requiring any kind of run good (and theres lots of different forms of run good u kno that).

again, having a good dose of skepticism is important especially for those looking at this forum and wanting to get their feet wet in poker.

nobody has to or even should take everything i say as truth. nor should they blindly believe what squid or anyother person itt says is a normal wr. take in all the information available (i suggest skimming other sub forums ie mid hi fr) i'm just even more skeptical than usual taking someones word who is looking for some kind of recognition/ ego boost, and doesn't address things head on and instead words his way around or just completely ignores it... especially in this industry

now i guess the joke is on me from even attempting to reason with people on a gambling forum that MAYBE being objective and realistic is the best approach. however i htink its worth it to try even if only one person lurking this thread stops dreaming and starts thinking.

edit: there certainly are people who average 10bb/hr over a large samples. It's an outlier that requires unparalleled work ethic and of course some run good. some people do actually make a living/ raise a family on poker- again an outlier.

take a step back and look at an even bigger picture. someone making 10bb/hr or $50/hr at 2/5 is only making roughly the equivalent of ~50k compared to a real job. somebody busting their ass for 50k and being middle aged sucks considering all the other great opportunities there are. just all my opinion tho

and ya i come off as an ass, but im not asking anyone to be my buddy. im asking people itt to think objectively/ for themselves. gl everyone
$50/hr equates to 100k a year if working the same amount of hours as a "real" job, not 50k a year.
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Old 04-29-2016, 04:47 PM   #14387
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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$50/hr equates to 100k a year if working the same amount of hours as a "real" job, not 50k a year.
As a self employed person, 100k a year is roughly equivalent to a 50k a year normal job with full benefits, vacation time, etc.
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Old 04-29-2016, 04:48 PM   #14388
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Not to mention poker is a lot more like a commission-only than hourly wage job.
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Old 04-29-2016, 05:32 PM   #14389
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

So would you rather make 50k a year at poker
or 50k a year at a real job?
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Old 04-29-2016, 05:33 PM   #14390
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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So would you rather make 50k a year at poker
or 50k a year at a real job?
The latter ainec.
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Old 04-29-2016, 05:42 PM   #14391
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As a self employed person, 100k a year is roughly equivalent to a 50k a year normal job with full benefits, vacation time, etc.
Can you explain this? 401k 6% employer match, health insurrance, bonuses , half SE tax, and paid vacation = 50k?
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Old 04-29-2016, 05:58 PM   #14392
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Can you explain this? 401k 6% employer match, health insurrance, bonuses , half SE tax, and paid vacation = 50k?
My wife gets a "Total Compensation" breakdown every year, and it's pretty darn close. By the time you factor in risk, I would call them equal.
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Old 04-29-2016, 09:39 PM   #14393
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyLuckBox View Post
So would you rather make 50k a year at poker
or 50k a year at a real job?
Both ldo
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Old 04-30-2016, 01:06 AM   #14394
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$50/hr / 10bb/hr crusher on the felt sure means a whole lot- at least to degens and aspiring pros.

Does 50k/yr mean anything off the felt? No. It doesn't.
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Old 04-30-2016, 08:01 AM   #14395
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Siculamente View Post
$50/hr / 10bb/hr crusher on the felt sure means a whole lot- at least to degens and aspiring pros.

Does 50k/yr mean anything off the felt? No. It doesn't.
Once again, $50/hr is about $100K per year, not $50k per year. Making $100K per year is nothing to sneeze at on OR off the felt.

It puts you in the top 10% of income earners in the US.

We can debate the pros and cons of things like lack of benefits, freedom, having no boss, and flexibility but money wise....if you can make $50/hr you are winning at life.
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Old 04-30-2016, 09:02 AM   #14396
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by KatoKrazy View Post
As a self employed person, 100k a year is roughly equivalent to a 50k a year normal job with full benefits, vacation time, etc.

This is not true at all. Certainly it is more "expensive" to be self employed but it is nowhere near this ratio
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Old 04-30-2016, 09:27 AM   #14397
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Both ldo

Excellent idea!
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Old 04-30-2016, 09:31 AM   #14398
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This is not true at all. Certainly it is more "expensive" to be self employed but it is nowhere near this ratio

I'm also going to add... And I'm going out on a limb here... That most proffessional gamblers who mainly play cash poker and made 50k this year have a tax return that looks a little different than that of a 50k wage earner.
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Old 04-30-2016, 12:44 PM   #14399
Siculamente
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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Once again, $50/hr is about $100K per year, not $50k per year. Making $100K per year is nothing to sneeze at on OR off the felt.

It puts you in the top 10% of income earners in the US.

We can debate the pros and cons of things like lack of benefits, freedom, having no boss, and flexibility but money wise....if you can make $50/hr you are winning at life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KatoKrazy View Post
As a self employed person, 100k a year is roughly equivalent to a 50k a year normal job with full benefits, vacation time, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatoKrazy View Post
My wife gets a "Total Compensation" breakdown every year, and it's pretty darn close. By the time you factor in risk, I would call them equal.
someone else itt is thinking like an adult
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Old 04-30-2016, 01:05 PM   #14400
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Once again, $50/hr is about $100K per year, not $50k per year. Making $100K per year is nothing to sneeze at on OR off the felt.

It puts you in the top 10% of income earners in the US.

We can debate the pros and cons of things like lack of benefits, freedom, having no boss, and flexibility but money wise....if you can make $50/hr you are winning at life.

It's all relative...
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