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Old 04-05-2012, 03:22 AM   #1401
SeaUlater
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They call it HA up here.
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Old 04-06-2012, 02:01 PM   #1402
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
Competence of dealer has little to do with it, IMO; it's more about the players and the table dynamics (does every pot go off multiway, lottsa thinkers in every hand, all go to the river, etc. versus lotta tight regs, lotta HU hands not going past the flop, etc.).
+1

I've seen dealers deal 10 hands/hr at tables with really slow players
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:25 PM   #1403
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by mike1270 View Post
i have been playing/coaching for a living for a little over 4 years now both live and online - hear are a few thoughts that come to mind for you to consider

i went "pro" when i got laid off too but i was already making more with poker than my job so it wasn't too hard

30 buyins might be OK as long as you have at least 1 year of living expenses in addition to your 15K

i like to take my "real winrate" to determine risk of ruin and determine needed BR. i figure my monthly nut, number of hours played and back that out of my actual WR(ie i make 60/hour but i know i will be spending half of that money on my bills so i use 30/hour as my WR for BR management decisions/calculations)

your spending(BR depletion) is a HUGE factor that most get wrong!

since i am on the BR issue - WR and spend rate are the critical factors so always work to improve your WR and control your expenses

grinding 40/hr per week is not the same as playing poker 10-15 hours per week - more stress, more sitting on your ass eating crap food, more exposure to germs, more nights away from wifey ... pickup a copy of Stress for Success by Loehr to help with this issue

don't ever lend money to poker players/gamblers!

on the sample size - since you don't have one you have to know why you are winning. if you understand why you are beating the game, see others mistakes, and keep working to improve your game you can feel confident that you are a winning player - all of this takes brutal self honest which isn't easy

can it be done - yes
is it worth doing - ?

Poker is the best part-time job but doing if full time is completely different

GL on the felt
Yes, I just discovered this myself. When using risk of ruin calculators like this one. http://www.reviewpokerrooms.com/poke...uirements.html
You need to factor in your monthly nut which makes a HUGE difference and also if you think hmm I make $20/hour long term winrate and and my monthly nut is 2k then I will play 100 hours per month and be fine. That will raise your risk of ruin through the roof.

Lets take the example above and say winrate $20/hour with 2k/month nut and standard deviation of $180/hour. we will say its 1/3nl.
Well before taking into account your monthly nut a BR of $3730 would get you a 1% ROR and $4291 would get you .5%.

Now lets say same thing but factor in you monthly nut. lets say you play only 110 hours per month, so 2,000/110=$18.18/hr of your $20/hr going to bills. So your real WR is $1.82/hr and now a 1% ROR need a 41k BR and .5% needs a 47k BR.

But now lets look at the importance of putting in the hours to build your BR as you go and say 160 hours a month. So 2000/160=12.50. So now your true WR is $7.50/hr. And now a 1% ROR would only need $9947 BR and .5% would only need $11,444 BR. Big difference!
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:00 AM   #1404
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Officially my 1000th post, so I might as well brag a lil bit (when I get smacked down by variance I vow to return and eat my words).

Since January (when I started playing 2/5)

Borgata 2/5

Hours: 185
Win/Loss: +$8125
Hourly: +$44

March:

Hours: 86
Win/Loss: +$2803
Hourly: +$32

Graph is net wins which subtracts out stuff like train, restaurant tips etc
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Old 04-07-2012, 03:10 AM   #1405
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

nice job pokerisfrustrating!!
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:16 AM   #1406
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

bump for the guy who just posted a bankroll thread that I locked
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:07 PM   #1407
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Thanks. I should say it's not just 2/5 boomswitch.

Bump up to 2/5 + Deuce Plays Premium + Crush Live Poker + talking to regs I know + running pretty hot = boomswitch activated.

Everyone should go get Bart Hanson's stuff, because it's awesome. And yes, I promote it like it's my job, which it isn't

Also not losing AA to KK or KK to AA over 200 hours = fun. I did lose QQ to KK.

Also had 2 guys open fold kings to my 4b's preflop, which is insane. I cried for about 4 hours the last time. WHERE IS MY $600! :'(
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:29 PM   #1408
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Always been a far better tournament player than cash. Break even live and losing online cash player for years. Family + full time job makes tournaments harder to make time for, so I decided to challenge myself to take $300 ( single buy-in) this January and build an actual cash game bankroll playing for roughly 5 hrs (once or twice) a week.

Picked up Ed Miller's How to Read Hands and started reading thru the LLsNL forums. I still have leaks in my game but I'm at least cognizant of them when I see them.The biggest 2 leaks I've plugged was stop trying to trap people and hope they bet my hand for me and to tighten up in the early positions and be selectively LAG the closer I am to the button.

So good returns so far. Only been playing 1-3 NL. I've seen the thread to take some shots at the 2-5 NL .. which for now is my foreseeable goal. I might take 1-2 buy-ins for 2-5 NL when i crest the 5k mark and then work myself incrementally into it full time depending on how it and my BR goes.

Sessions: 16 (10 winning)
Time: 84 hours
Hourly Profit: $46.63
Profit: $3921
Best session:+ $1375
Worst session: -$600
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:46 AM   #1409
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How long should a downswing last in regards to sessions, buy ins, days? Also, what hourly rate should a solid player be making at 1/3 NL? Lastly, how many live hands would you say a poker player needs to play before he is a proven winning player and not just on a good run?
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:49 AM   #1410
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Down swings can last forever, especially if you're the type that tilts.

As for the rest, try searching first. Plus every answer is case by case, so the answer you'll likely get is simply "it depends."
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:03 AM   #1411
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerIsFrustrating View Post
Thanks. I should say it's not just 2/5 boomswitch.

Bump up to 2/5 + Deuce Plays Premium + Crush Live Poker + talking to regs I know + running pretty hot = boomswitch activated.

Everyone should go get Bart Hanson's stuff, because it's awesome. And yes, I promote it like it's my job, which it isn't

Also not losing AA to KK or KK to AA over 200 hours = fun. I did lose QQ to KK.

Also had 2 guys open fold kings to my 4b's preflop, which is insane. I cried for about 4 hours the last time. WHERE IS MY $600! :'(
In the face of a 4-bet, KK doesn't look nearly as strong as before....
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:34 AM   #1412
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I would suggest not 4-betting period unless there is serious meta game going on against another very aggro opponent
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:12 AM   #1413
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by serio562 View Post
How long should a downswing last in regards to sessions, buy ins, days? Also, what hourly rate should a solid player be making at 1/3 NL? Lastly, how many live hands would you say a poker player needs to play before he is a proven winning player and not just on a good run?
FWIW, in my first ~600 hours at live 1/3 ($300 maximum buy in), I'm sitting at about $23/hr. I'm also approaching 70% session win-rate (although that has gone down a bit recently as I'm only barely over .500 in my last dozen sessions).

I'm always conflicted on the long run. On the one hand, live play can just be so bad that we can just splash around and basically tread water until idiots pay us off on our two huge hands we make every night; so maybe a "short" amount of hours (500?) is all we really need to get a handle on how we'll do long term if the game remains the same. On the other hand, we'll never ever even begin to approach the massive amount of hands that on-line players have put in, and decent on-line players have recorded breakeven/downswing stretches that would take us several lifetimes to accomplish live; however, their competition is probably a lot tougher, so maybe it's comparing apples and morons.

Just read, play, post, record results and rinse.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:04 PM   #1414
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Break even stretches are a function of win rates and if you are a 2 bb/100 winner live you might as well be a break even player
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:50 PM   #1415
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Anyone else want to vouch for Bart Hanson's Crush Live Poker? Seriously considering buying it. It's 9.95 a mo or a one time charge?

Wouldn't mind a pm as I realize this is a bit OT
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:53 PM   #1416
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Bart is not bad, 2p2 is better if you can sort through bad posts
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:55 PM   #1417
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

have been playing and running well so far in 2012 ($95/hr over 120 hours) but have only logged one session in april... a -$440 losing session @ 1/2. i played a terribly because ive been getting way too cocky/aggressive/find -a -way -to -win -every -hand-mode.

looking forward to getting back into the swing of things this weekend after nearly 2 weeks off. gonna nit it up good . will revert back with results!

edit: also, good job pokerisfrustrating. keep up the good work. i'll be staying at the borg 28th-30th so let me know if youre around!
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:56 PM   #1418
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Mmmmm, nit
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:05 PM   #1419
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If I go to play 5-5 but there's a list so I sit at 2-3, play for 20 mins and lose 100, then sit at 5-5 and win 600... Is that a 500 winning session, or two sessions-- a 100 loss and a 600 win?

For bragging purposes only
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:10 PM   #1420
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuceKicker View Post
If I go to play 5-5 but there's a list so I sit at 2-3, play for 20 mins and lose 100, then sit at 5-5 and win 600... Is that a 500 winning session, or two sessions-- a 100 loss and a 600 win?

For bragging purposes only
i don't really distinguish between stakes on my spreadsheet, but i guess i probably should.

obviously a +2000 session at 5/10 throws off my winrate that reflects mostly 1/2 and 2/5 games. but im really just concerned with how much money im making and dont really care how i get there. if a 25c/50c Stud game was the most profitable game around then id be playing that instead. so to be more responsive to your question, i'd view that as a single +500 session.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:30 PM   #1421
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuceKicker View Post
If I go to play 5-5 but there's a list so I sit at 2-3, play for 20 mins and lose 100, then sit at 5-5 and win 600... Is that a 500 winning session, or two sessions-- a 100 loss and a 600 win?

For bragging purposes only
I break down my results by stakes, so I would consider it two sessions.

Here's a question: do you have to transfer all the chips you have sitting in front of you at your 2/3 table to your 5/5 table (much like you would do if doing a simple table change within the same stakes)? My guess is not (i.e. you could pocket whatever you want and then start afresh) - my criteria for a "session".
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:19 PM   #1422
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by diskoteque View Post
i don't really distinguish between stakes on my spreadsheet, but i guess i probably should.
The OCD in me is cringing at your lack of attention to detail. I have a spreadsheet page for each limit, and a totals page to combine everything. How else can you figure out BB/Hr and StDev for each limit!?!!!!one!!??

I graph it and color code the line segments for each limit.

Here's my NL graph.


and an old graph from my limit days showing three different limits (and a -$8K weekend, ouch)



Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
I break down my results by stakes, so I would consider it two sessions.
Yeah, because I graph each limit separately, I consider it two sessions also.

However, if I table change within a limit I must chip up or down to the table min/max. You're not allowed to take a large stack to a new table. Sucks. For record keeping purposes, I consider a table change (within the same limit) part of the same session, and just keep track of how much I was up or down before the table change.

Last edited by DeuceKicker; 04-12-2012 at 06:30 PM. Reason: fixed sucky picture
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:29 PM   #1423
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by RobFarha View Post
Anyone else want to vouch for Bart Hanson's Crush Live Poker? Seriously considering buying it. It's 9.95 a mo or a one time charge?

Wouldn't mind a pm as I realize this is a bit OT
i think you can listen to all his old podcast for DC for free
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:46 PM   #1424
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

One time fee allows all of the up-to-date podcasts to be downloaded and future episodes within the next 30 day period.

His free ones, which are ones prior to him moving to paid subscription, are not as high quality as the paid ones. They were entertaining though, but I wouldn't go back to them unless I am on some sort of long road trip and only country music stations are available.

Edit: Why don't we let Bart Hanson himself explain it =)
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:44 AM   #1425
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

So basically its $9.99 a month? For some reason i thought i heard him say its just a one time fee, he said this on his older podcasts.
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