Youre saying that many LLSNL players cant achieve a high winrate due to lack of skill, or because they arent willing to lose more often aka is capping their winrate because of scared money playingstyle?


Just trying to get it clear what you are really saying here.

If you're a nut peddling player, you are never really losing much, agreed?

But it is rare to hit big payoff hands, so you also rarely win a lot.

Put two together, you have a low WR and never big down swings.

But if the 10bb an hour guy cashed out exactly 10bb hr ahead every time he would have zero downswing either

Exactly!

I'd be pretty shocked to find out that you had a point when you started this pedantic tirade... Just looking at any of your posts would show that you're just mouthing off. Maybe a point has since popped in your head but from the looks of it you didn't start with one.

If you do actually have a point in mind instead of talking in riddles and asking theoretical questions that would almost never have any actual real life application just go out and say your point.

As for being a "nonsensical" "really bad" questions: this is the "Official winrate, bankrolls and finances" thread in the "live low stakes" section. The question is fine.

Word of the day ITT: pedantic

You guys are getting ridiculous.

Everyone understands that if you hold the standard deviation constant then the bigger winner will have fewer downswings. That wasn't the question though. RP assumed that wasn't the intended question either because that would be a really dumb question to ask.

Thanks BGP. I'll keep your thoughts in mind.

FWIW, did you not see that VK fired at me first?

And did you not see that spike also said that the question cannot be answered?

I know I painted a target in my head for participating at such high volume.

❤️

Thank you.

Can't be answered from a theoretical standpoint without more extensive definitions.


What are we calling a downswing? #of dips in the line? Depth of dips in the line?

I interpret "swings" to mean volatility of then profit line, not necessarily #of swings.

Shats fire. He's coming at you hard


t-roy: people come in here with no idea what standard deviation is. I doubt anyone even got the standard deviation joke on the graph I made

It is a fairly common and not stupid question.

Great BGP. You are right. Thanks man.

I think it would be a hell of a lot of fun to play a sled game. Get a little bit of upper body workout to balance all the skating I do.

I know there's a more technical way to define this, but I can't think of it offhand. But I'd say it's the top to bottom spread of the noise in your graph. When you plot out a winrate it's pretty obvious that there's high frequency noise and wiggles. I'd draw a line along the tops of all that, and the bottom, and call the vertical distance my "volatility". It's not exactly variance as it's more of an amplitude.

(New todo for my winrate calcs that I'll probably forget ... run an FFT on my winnings.)

If my SO and I both had awesome jobs then I wouldn't play poker with any regularity. I'd rather spend my time doing something else besides chasing more money to buy crap I don't really need.


But take what I have to say with a grain of salt. I'm burnt out. A few million hands of online poker + live will do that to a person. You see / experience some pretty crazy variance which, at the end of the day really isn't worth dealing with / the stress imo if a person makes good gains outside of poker.

I think I figured out the problem.

You think money means buying crap you don't need.

My view is to make money when you can, but it doesn't mean to sacrifice other things.

So having a great paying job doesn't mean I can't use more money.

It just comes down to how you value things in life?

I've actually been stumped at a crossroads for a month or so now since finding myself a job.

The marginal utility of every extra dollar diminishes as you earn more, $50 isn't as important to you when you're making $1000/week or whatever working but it is very important when you're grinding it out with no stable income.

Making money is always good, but there is always some sort of opportunity cost, let it be time, missed life opportunities, health, ect etc.

There should be a time for some when grinding it out for 10bb/hour is just not worth it anymore because time becomes more valuable or health etc etc.

For example, if I had children and was working a good job, I don't think I could justify grinding it out on my butt for 10bb/hour because my job would be paying 20-30bb/hour
AND MOVING UP isn't an option because the winnings/(studying+game time) isn't equal to your hourly at work.

It's like the question;
Would you rather 1m or a 50% shot at 2m, theoretically they both are equal in EV, but 1m would change people's lives and the gambol isn't just not worth it because the extra 1m to be gained isn't sufficient enough to risk it. The relative value of the second million dollars is actually less than the first million.

I still don't read the question the same as you and RP's responses make sense based on how I read it. That's all.

Money has much better uses than buying crap. Sounds like you have a spending problem.

Like traveling and seeing the world for one.

this seems to be a mindset issue - don't you enjoy poker as well, both the playing and also the thinking?

I certainly do - I look forward to it, I think about it, read about it and write notes etcc and occasionally dream about it. Doing poker just for the money would scare the crap out of me, because it would become a grind that I resented instead of relished. Of course, the money I win is also cool and I'm not sure I would play it longer term if I didn't win money/was a long term loser but winning money is only one part of the equation/value proposition

Went to a sledge hockey game during the paralympics. Only time in my life I'll ever get to sit behind the glass. Great action and almost as physical as the able-bodied version.

Love that there's a penalty for "T-Boning".

This is almost my exact mentality. The thinking / fluid dynamics / situational play always being different is what keeps me loving this game. The money matters too, but mostly just as a scorecard.

Yup. Winning is what I like. Or the challenge to win. It's taken the place of sports for me. I play rec softball/soccer these days but I'm too competitive for that to be a perfect fix. I take every game I play seriously (not like douche bag beer league guy who thinks it's the finals) but I really want to win. Poker is a great outlet for me.

No, I don't. And I don't have a problem with spending money on stupid crap- but people generally do - that's why they constantly chase more money thinking it will fix things. We live a fairly minimalist lifestyle which makes us happy.

Past a certain point yes- it does mean being able to buy stuff people don't really need (or even want).

It will be interesting to see if my tune changes once this run bad finally ends, but I don't think my mindset will change.

Mike- lived / travelled all over the world on and off for 4-5 years. I've had my fill

Seems weird to assume that everyone else has a spending problem then.

It's pretty awesome to be able to retire a couple years early, or go on nice trips with your wife, or help your kids through college thanks to a hobby that you enjoy. Until you get into the multi millionaire range, more money is always very useful imo.