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Old 02-10-2016, 05:41 PM   #13276
Richard Parker
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Here is a scenario that might be interesting.

100bb game. Bad gambler whale is at the table with 300bb deep and going nuts playing just about ATC. Doesn't like to fold and gets very aggressive when he senses weakness. Table is getting run over and people folding left and right.

Do you:

1. Buy in max?
2. Buy in 80bb?
3. Buy in minimum?

Why?
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Old 02-10-2016, 05:44 PM   #13277
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

depends on how much you like variance
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Old 02-10-2016, 05:46 PM   #13278
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IMO, personal preference and ability (skill and monetary) are only part of the consideration.
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Old 02-10-2016, 05:48 PM   #13279
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie View Post
I personally know several crushers that don't generally step into a game cold and snap buy-in full.

Having a set reason to do anything without considering dynamics is missing the forest for the trees.
Sounds like they are pussies
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Old 02-10-2016, 05:49 PM   #13280
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IMO, personal preference and ability (skill and monetary) are only part of the consideration.
if you have the roll and temperament to support a high variance game then you should opt for max ev in every spot which will make for a ton of swings/variance

if you don't then you should take a lower variance approach or perhaps sitout from the game entirely
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Old 02-10-2016, 05:50 PM   #13281
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Sounds like they are pussies
no u r
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Old 02-10-2016, 05:56 PM   #13282
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Originally Posted by miamicheats View Post
if you have the roll and temperament to support a high variance game then you should opt for max ev in every spot which will make for a ton of swings/variance

if you don't then you should take a lower variance approach or perhaps sitout from the game entirely
Maybe your room has bunch of these whales walking in on the regular basis, but not here.

IMO, consideration of the whale is just as important as my personal preference of variance and other things, but of course, that's assuming I have all my ducks in a row.
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Old 02-10-2016, 06:54 PM   #13283
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
Here is a scenario that might be interesting.

100bb game. Bad gambler whale is at the table with 300bb deep and going nuts playing just about ATC. Doesn't like to fold and gets very aggressive when he senses weakness. Table is getting run over and people folding left and right.

Do you:

1. Buy in max?
2. Buy in 80bb?
3. Buy in minimum?

Why?
Is he stacking off preflop? What seats available? That will very much determine my willingness to top off.
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Old 02-10-2016, 07:07 PM   #13284
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
Here is a scenario that might be interesting.

100bb game. Bad gambler whale is at the table with 300bb deep and going nuts playing just about ATC. Doesn't like to fold and gets very aggressive when he senses weakness. Table is getting run over and people folding left and right.

Do you:

1. Buy in max?
2. Buy in 80bb?
3. Buy in minimum?

Why?
Huh? Why is this even a question? I guess it speaks to people's bankrolls, but you have 2 too many choices imho.

1. Buy in max?
2. Go straight to the bar and see what you have left once you find your balls?

Edit: Oops, sorry, forgot something.

Why?
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Old 02-10-2016, 07:15 PM   #13285
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
Here is a scenario that might be interesting.

100bb game. Bad gambler whale is at the table with 300bb deep and going nuts playing just about ATC. Doesn't like to fold and gets very aggressive when he senses weakness. Table is getting run over and people folding left and right.

Do you:

1. Buy in max?
2. Buy in 80bb?
3. Buy in minimum?

Why?
Buy-in max AINEC. Every extra dollar on the table is another dollar I can put in at an edge. The whale probably appreciates more money on the table.

Why is this interesting? It's only "interesting" if one is underrolled for the stake. The only way this happens to me is if the whale is playing at a higher stake than me and tempting me to take a shot. In that case the "correct" answer could be anything from min-max depending on our bankroll, average edge and SD, but I'd probably take the conservative route (not necessarily a min-buy) because time spent trying to figure out how much money I can safely put on the table is time my money isn't on the table.
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Old 02-10-2016, 07:29 PM   #13286
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
Here is a scenario that might be interesting.

100bb game. Bad gambler whale is at the table with 300bb deep and going nuts playing just about ATC. Doesn't like to fold and gets very aggressive when he senses weakness. Table is getting run over and people folding left and right.

Do you:

1. Buy in max?
2. Buy in 80bb?
3. Buy in minimum?

Why?
Assuming maximizing profit is the primary goal, then you should buy in for the max. If you have an edge on the whale, and everyone else is folding left and right, then you should maximize your edge by having as deep of stacks as possible. Doesn't seem interesting; am I missing something?
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:37 PM   #13287
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Disclaimer: I rarely buyin higher than 3k to 4k but I don't play high enough that it is an issue
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Old 02-10-2016, 09:22 PM   #13288
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I guess nobody ever consider how whale feels.

If whale wins another huge pot, he might pack up. If everyone keep folding, he might pack up. If hero appears to be threatening, he might pack up.

Anyhow, I guess not too many people think about these things. Then again, I am not surprised when everyone seems to be under rolled.
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Old 02-10-2016, 10:13 PM   #13289
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Has anyone ever done serious grinding at Winstar? If so, what does a sustainable winrate look like at 1/3 on week nights?
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Old 02-10-2016, 10:21 PM   #13290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
I guess nobody ever consider how whale feels.

If whale wins another huge pot, he might pack up. If everyone keep folding, he might pack up. If hero appears to be threatening, he might pack up.

Anyhow, I guess not too many people think about these things. Then again, I am not surprised when everyone seems to be under rolled.
These are unknowns. How can we know that deep stacks threaten him? What if short stacks bore him to the point where he leaves? Its also unreasonable to assume that he'll pack up after winning a huge pot, since he's already very deep. I think we can't make all these assumptions, when just the opposite could also be true.

All things being equal, buying in for the max when you have an overal edge on that effective stack is most profitable.
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Old 02-10-2016, 10:35 PM   #13291
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2/5 deep 2500 max buy in. Table is equally skilled except... player to your left (2500) is solid pro. Player to his left is avg and is also sitting on 2500. Rest of table is 1k deep. Player to your right also 1k is a fish.

You've sat in only available seat. Buy in strat?
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Old 02-10-2016, 10:58 PM   #13292
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Just about every whale I know who buys in for 200+ or plays A2c is not scared by more money on the table. I once bought in for 100bb at a 2/5 home game because e1 was short and the host was kinda sketchy and may not pay out. Guy who never folds top pair and isn't scared to gamble shows up looks disappointed at all the shorter stacks. I specifically said I wanted to top up to 1k b/c it looked like he wanted to play 1k with someone. He was happy and still reloaded after I doubled through with 2 pair vs his top pair.

If it's some bad newb or tourney donk who started with 40bb and ran it up to 300bb you may have a point, But usually hit and run guys have their magic number and pick it up pretty quickly when they get there no matter what you do.
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Old 02-10-2016, 10:59 PM   #13293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cAmmAndo View Post
2/5 deep 2500 max buy in. Table is equally skilled except... player to your left (2500) is solid pro. Player to his left is avg and is also sitting on 2500. Rest of table is 1k deep. Player to your right also 1k is a fish.

You've sat in only available seat. Buy in strat?
1k+seat change button
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Old 02-10-2016, 11:32 PM   #13294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
I guess nobody ever consider how whale feels.

If whale wins another huge pot, he might pack up. If everyone keep folding, he might pack up. If hero appears to be threatening, he might pack up.

Anyhow, I guess not too many people think about these things. Then again, I am not surprised when everyone seems to be under rolled.
In my experience true whales prefer people buying deep and would get annoyed by a bunch of short stacks.
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Old 02-10-2016, 11:42 PM   #13295
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Buy in to fish stack but get to left of good players.
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Old 02-11-2016, 01:11 AM   #13296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cAmmAndo View Post
2/5 deep 2500 max buy in. Table is equally skilled except... player to your left (2500) is solid pro. Player to his left is avg and is also sitting on 2500. Rest of table is 1k deep. Player to your right also 1k is a fish.

You've sat in only available seat. Buy in strat?
Where is this game?
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Old 02-11-2016, 01:19 AM   #13297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cAmmAndo View Post
2/5 deep 2500 max buy in. Table is equally skilled except... player to your left (2500) is solid pro. Player to his left is avg and is also sitting on 2500. Rest of table is 1k deep. Player to your right also 1k is a fish.

You've sat in only available seat. Buy in strat?
Min buy, run it up.
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Old 02-11-2016, 01:37 AM   #13298
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Min buy, run it up.

Min is 500... Why no cover fish?
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Old 02-11-2016, 01:52 AM   #13299
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Why cover fish?
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Old 02-11-2016, 02:02 AM   #13300
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Why cover fish?

Cuz all things being equal money mostly moves to the left and with a fish on the right it moves a little faster.
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