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Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Winrates, bankrolls, and finances
View Poll Results: What is your Win Rate in terms of BB per Housr
Less than 0 (losing)
5 6.41%
0-2.5
0 0%
2.5-5
6 7.69%
5-7.5
8 10.26%
7.5-10
15 19.23%
10+
26 33.33%
Not enough sample size/I don't know
18 23.08%

02-01-2016 , 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
Does anyone have enough hours tracked separately to really know if playing at nights and weekends is really all that more profitable? I play almost exclusively during the daytime with lots of regulars. I can play some evening hours if its really that much more profitable.



What I do know about playing during the day is that its pretty easy to know where you are in a hand with these old guys. If I have AK and bet a K76 flop, and anyone over 65 calls me they have KQ or TT. If they raise they have 76 , 77 or 66. It makes for low stress game but still profitable because they also fold way too much and dont even know what a LAG is.

Yes.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2016 , 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZuneIt
For several reasons. One is bankroll. Although I only use my winnings for my own personal expenses [which includes clothes, gym membership & golf], we splurged on Christmas [Almost $250 on 2 dogs was the small price tag] & the 'splurging' came from my bankroll. So, right now I'm sitting on just over 14k.

Sounds like a lot, however, squid face has stated that he once went on a downswing of 7.5k. Now, although he admitted that it was the worse downswing he or his friends had had up to that point, and he had to contribute some of it to bad decisions - he is a pro. So, I need more than 2x 7.5k as far as I'm concerned.

Poker is nothing but enjoyment & absolutely exciting when you have nothing to worry about monetarily!
Except when you go on a one or two month downswing of course. But then you get to practice discipline.

I feel sorry for those players in 1/2 games, who buy-in for $200 & bleed down to $100 & then lose when they're ahead - lose their temper & leave. They leave because they don't have anymore money. It was their 2nd or 3rd buy-in.

When I started out in July 2014 with 2k, Garick & I got into a few discussions about chasing small edges, which he firmly believes in. I argued that there are way too many large edges in 1/2 to be concerned about the small edges. That is not true. However, I did not have the bankroll to chase small edges, nor the skill set in 2014 needed to accurately assess my edge.

Once I built my bankroll up to 4.5k in 2014, I went on an ~1.2k downswing. I questioned my ability, talked to 2 of my decade+ long friends & buried myself in this forum. Mostly reading.

Anyways, based upon my current rating of my ability to determine my edge in a hand at my current skill set, I give myself a 6% margin of error. So, if I believe I have a 10% edge, I'll call without hesitation, because even if I'm wrong, I should [I believe] still have a 4% edge.

I can do that because my bankroll is so large I need not worry about being wrong. Lesson learned at a relatively low price tag. Not so at 2/5. At 2/5, players will try & bully you out of pots with $300+ bets ott. That's a lot of money.

However, because of this built in margin of error I am requiring myself, I'm still missing out on a lot because I should be continuing on hands that I'm not.

Finally, I'm not aggressive enough yet. That was proven in my PAHWM 98s thread. I need to become more accustomed to playing aggressively with draws than I currently am. Couple that with the fact that I know I need improvement on putting players on a range & it's obvious I'm not ready.

I buy-in to 1/2 for $300 & keep it close to $300 every time the button comes around. Sooner if I'm down to $225.00. Imagine buyin' in for $500 in a 2/5 & toppin' off on a regular basis. I have been stuck in a 1/2 game for $875, with only $275 in front of me. That was over only a ~4hr period. All because I had a 55+% edge otf or ott & lost. When you lose to a 4/5/6/ or 7 outter going into the river, it's not hard to find yourself buried, deep, real quick. I considered myself lucky to go home stuck only ~$250.00. Compute that a 2/5 level.

I don't remember where I read it 1st, or who originated the quote "The more I learned about NL Hold 'Em, the more I realized how much I didn't know," however, I believe that you can't find a more accurate quote about the game for those of us learning.

I can contribute 50% of my win rate over the last 3 months to an improvement in my skill set. Maybe a little more. However, I would be a fool to believe that I am now a $20+pr hr long-term crusher.

Wrong forum. Blog is that way.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2016 , 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
I was kinda wishing January would never end. I bested my highest volume month of 2015 by 20 hours (111 hours in January 2016 vs. 91 in May 2015) and destroyed my 2015 average of 70 hours per month. Predictably, I have begun to totally mail it in at work as I become more disenfranchised and plotting my rapidly approaching departure.

January
Profit: $14,150
Hours: 111.2
Hourly: $127.2
Sessions Won: 14/18 (78%)

Biggest Win: $3,500
Biggest Loss: ($1,700)
DamSon.jpeg
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2016 , 01:43 PM
The very cold months are when some players go broke
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2016 , 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrist
It's hard to get stats like that Especially taking into account day of the week.
Poker Journal actually allows you to build custom filters easily with your stats.

And if you convert your sessions into .csv, it isn't hard to filter through Excel either.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2016 , 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Parker
Poker Journal actually allows you to build custom filters easily with your stats.

And if you convert your sessions into .csv, it isn't hard to filter through Excel either.
Getting the stats out of the data is easy enough.

Acquiring a reasonable sample size is the tough part.

Then you've got those sessions where you start at noon and play until 4am ... which bin does that go into?
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2016 , 02:39 PM
Oh you meant that.

Well, I am sure there aren't many sessions that go on for 16 hours in a large sample size.

Anyhow, I am sure squid has that information.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2016 , 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
Does anyone have enough hours tracked separately to really know if playing at nights and weekends is really all that more profitable?
My guess is that the overall sample size would have to be *huge* in order to really have a good idea.

As RP says, PokerJournal has a filter where you can filter this stuff.

But lets say you logged 1,400 hours (a fair sample size most would say) evenly distributed over the 7 days of the week. But that would work out to 200 hours for each day of the week, and we all know 200 hours is pretty meaningless.

For example, my day of the week shows Thursday being 4.5x as profitable as Wednesday (165+ hours in each). My Tuesday is over 2x profitable as my Monday (250+ hours in each). But at these sample sizes, it's just noise, imo.

My Sunday of 928 hours shows me at almost my overall winrate, so getting to have a little more confidence (lol?) in those sample hours.

ETA: On top of all that, you'd have to be putting your evenly distributed hours in evenly over a particular time period to have more confidence. For example, I almost exclusively play Sunday (or Saturday) now, and my weeknight results were mostly put in years ago when the game/conditions were different than they are now.

GblindedbythenoiseG
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2016 , 02:46 PM
I'll take the Angrist approach.

Weekdays: you know every player, WR is relatively fixed after several hundred hours.

Nights and weekends: random people walking in and many tables to choose.

If you can beat weekday game, you can probably do better on nights and weekends.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2016 , 02:46 PM
I've got about 4000 hours in my log, and I did some of the day-of week and room by room breakdown the last time I looked at it in detail, but not time of day. I'll take a look the next time I go through it, but I don't play during the day much.

Sometimes I wonder how hard it would be to collect logs from a couple dozen live players and compare/aggregate their statistics. Sure, everyone plays differently and may have a different individual winrate, but it might show some interesting trends/correlations.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2016 , 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrist
Sometimes I wonder how hard it would be to collect logs from a couple dozen live players and compare/aggregate their statistics. Sure, everyone plays differently and may have a different individual winrate, but it might show some interesting trends/correlations.
Assume you can and you can even make these numbers up, what kind of interesting trends/correlations do you think might show up?

If it's worthwhile, I'll figure things out.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2016 , 03:07 PM
Well, you may have enough data to take a stab at day of week and time of day winrates with reasonable sample sizes for one.

I wonder how a player's winrate and standard deviation are linked, do players with higher SD also have higher WR's?

How much does the SD vary from player to player?

Are winrate and session length coupled? As in are longer sessions inherently worse or better than shorter sessions?

With a large overall sample you can also select smaller subsamples and show how many hours you'd need to collect to get a reasonable estimate of the overall winrate. Granted, that's possible to estimate from the underlying math on its own. But how well do we know what the SD is supposed to be for those calculations?


I haven't really formulated a plan for what I'd do with more data, but I'd be interested in crunching some numbers if there was interest in putting something together.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2016 , 03:56 PM
I do data analysis for a living and would love to take some of this on if we could get data from many players in csv format or something. I could aggregate the data and then take requests for questions/predictions/filters/visualizations/whatever.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2016 , 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Parker
Poker Journal actually allows you to build custom filters easily with your stats.
.
Thankfully

After putting in proper filters, January cease to exist.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2016 , 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikko
Thankfully

After putting in proper filters, January cease to exist.
Hahaha.

If it can help your mental game, why not?
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2016 , 08:17 PM
Might lose track of the lies you tell yourself.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2016 , 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
Does anyone have enough hours tracked separately to really know if playing at nights and weekends is really all that more profitable? I play almost exclusively during the daytime with lots of regulars. I can play some evening hours if its really that much more profitable.

What I do know about playing during the day is that its pretty easy to know where you are in a hand with these old guys. If I have AK and bet a K76 flop, and anyone over 65 calls me they have KQ or TT. If they raise they have 76 , 77 or 66. It makes for low stress game but still profitable because they also fold way too much and dont even know what a LAG is.
I have enough...and it is more profitable. Long story short we make big bux from incinerators. There will b significantly more of those during nights/weekends
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2016 , 10:32 PM
For 1/2, time of day is pretty essential to an inflated winrate IMO.

I could grind out $10-20/hr during daytime hours pretty happily with not much variance (but if you get stuck in those morning games its a nightmare to get out). That being said, how much easier it is to stack somebody at 1 in the morning is insane.


Edit: I WAS ONE TRIPLE BARREL AWAY FROM A RECORD BREAKING MONTH FML. Couldn't pull the trigger on the 3rd street, he was double gutted and turned a pair, was def folding river.

Last edited by YGOchamp; 02-01-2016 at 10:52 PM.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2016 , 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squid face
I have enough...and it is more profitable. Long story short we make big bux from incinerators. There will b significantly more of those during nights/weekends
Any estimate on the % difference in win rate?
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2016 , 11:50 PM
Tree.fiddy.percent.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-02-2016 , 01:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by t_roy
Any estimate on the % difference in win rate?
Really depends on the casino as to what type of players will come in later and how the fatigue effects their actions. Very hard to quantify.

From personal experience I'd say its around double, although variance also goes up dramatically.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-02-2016 , 03:04 AM
Some nice January graphs ITT, next few months should be good with tax return season coming up with generally more recreational players at the tables with the money they have gotten back.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-02-2016 , 07:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
I was kinda wishing January would never end. I bested my highest volume month of 2015 by 20 hours (111 hours in January 2016 vs. 91 in May 2015) and destroyed my 2015 average of 70 hours per month. Predictably, I have begun to totally mail it in at work as I become more disenfranchised and plotting my rapidly approaching departure.

January
Profit: $14,150
Hours: 111.2
Hourly: $127.2
Sessions Won: 14/18 (78%)

Biggest Win: $3,500
Biggest Loss: ($1,700)
I guess you already have your mind made up, but there are probably millions of 20 something year old dudes in this country that would kill to be making 100k and working in the finance industry.

Honest question, do you think poker will be sustainable enough in the next ten years for you to earn that kind of income (100k +)? Do you see the games being that good for an indefinite amount of time? How many fish can keep showing up to the casino and afford to be dumping thousands and thousands of dollars as we are living in a never ending recession? Where will all the expandable income come from?
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-02-2016 , 07:27 PM
Keep playing another few years and save 100% of your winnings plus 50%+ of your paycheck. Semi-retire early with enough passive income to cover your nut and play poker on the side with no pressure.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-02-2016 , 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder32
I guess you already have your mind made up, but there are probably millions of 20 something year old dudes in this country that would kill to be making 100k and working in the finance industry.

Honest question, do you think poker will be sustainable enough in the next ten years for you to earn that kind of income (100k +)? Do you see the games being that good for an indefinite amount of time? How many fish can keep showing up to the casino and afford to be dumping thousands and thousands of dollars as we are living in a never ending recession? Where will all the expandable income come from?
I don't know how long the good times will last but I intend to burn fast and bright, continue growing my bankroll, moving up limits, putting in time off the table and taking as much money as I can from this game in the shortest time possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KatoKrazy
Keep playing another few years and save 100% of your winnings plus 50%+ of your paycheck. Semi-retire early with enough passive income to cover your nut and play poker on the side with no pressure.
I thought I could make it another year or so but at this point I can barely get through the days. This job is holding me back in too many other aspects of my life that it's time to cut the chord. I live for the hustle, the eat what you kill mentality and now I get to find out if I'm as good at this game as I think I have the potential to be.

I know what my "ceiling" is in the corporate world. I don't yet know what my ceiling in poker is, and pushing it off further is a massive opportunity cost in my opinion. Somebody once told me "get in poker to get out" and I think that is what I want to devote myself to for the next 2-3 years.

I've got the bankroll. I've got the life roll. I've got no major responsibilities and a fairly small monthly nut relative to others my age. My desk job makes me want to blow my brains out. Poker gets me excited each and every day. I love poker more now than I did 6 months ago, when I loved poker more than I did the 6 months prior to that, when I loved poker more than the 6 months prior to that.

Now's gotta be the time right?
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote

      
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