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Old 01-22-2016, 12:45 PM   #12901
ZuneIt
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel
It's not like the "geniuses" on here have the "real answer." I know they all think they do. But even if they did, the answers are so geared towards guys who have played every week for years. Guys who are just starting to play regularly read about some advanced concepts and get overwhelmed and play too many hands and 3- and 4-bet too much and lose quickly and are discouraged from playing more.

The last few hands I commented on in this sub forum were basically "getting better at common spots will help so much more than asking strangers about a very uncommon spot against an unknown V." That's the best advice the OPs can get and no one offers that and it's terrible for the game.

But I didn't start this discussion. Someone weeks ago said you can't win by foregoing thin value spots, you'd go broke and it's just a matter of time. (It was said via a metaphor so BGP will have a reason why the guy didn't actually mean that, just like Andees comment) I was trying to explain why that's insanity. If your ceiling hourly is $X, it is completely doable to avoid some situations and only win $(90%)*(X) instead. Not only is it doable, in practice it'd turn plenty of players from losing or breakeven players to small winners. It's better for those players and for almost everyone in their player pools.
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Originally Posted by suited fours View Post
The few weeks ago discussion I recall was someone advocating folding QQ if someone shoved AK and showed.

You can be a winning player with a basic play-it-safe gameplan, but I'm not sure what you are suggesting the role of the forums should be to serve the person executing that style. Should we have a rating system for tough spot, common spot? What, in practical terms, are you trying to say?
I said I would fold QQ, however, that was in the context of my having to call with a huge % of my total bankroll. For instance, there was a situation in the summer of 2014, where I had a 2.4k bankroll but went on a ~1k downswing. I thought I was going to have to keep my part-time job! Then, I found myself in a game for ~$500.00

I then won a 1.2k pot. It started out multi-way, then went 3 way on the flop after the raises. I won & was now sitting on ~1.5k with ~$900 of my bankroll not on the table.

If a guy, who had my 1.5k covered, went all-in pre-flop & showed AK, I would have auto-mucked my QQ.

Last edited by ZuneIt; 01-22-2016 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 01-22-2016, 01:41 PM   #12902
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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All 1/2NL

September 2015 - 74.46 hrs - lost $38.00. Running so bad that I took a week off & didn't come close to my usual 110 hrs per month.

August 2015 - 111.98 hours - win rate $12.74 per hour.

Combine the two - 182.5 hours - win rate $6.46 per hour.



More if you don't tip the dealer unless the pot is $60+
This is more like variance rather than a break even stretch. You could get it in twice with AA and lose for 400bbs total which is normal variance over a 100hr sample size, but would really skew a 100/200hr sample

Congrats on never losing more than 100hrs in a row! What blind level is this?
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Old 01-22-2016, 01:45 PM   #12903
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GTO is a method to play unexploitably. It is not a way to maximize your winrate. It is more widely used to reduce ones losses when playing versus a superior player.

There is almost no reason to play GTO in live poker below 10/25
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Old 01-22-2016, 01:45 PM   #12904
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Wow, you lost a debate. Get over it. Or better yet. Learn from it.

F.w.i.w
RP has destroyed many egos over the years. He was probably a virgin through yesterday .
Fyp
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Old 01-22-2016, 01:49 PM   #12905
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I said I would fold QQ, however, that was in the context of my having to call with a huge % of my total bankroll. For instance, there was a situation in the summer of 2014, where I had a 2.4k bankroll but went on a ~1k downswing. I thought I was going to have to keep my part-time job! Then, I found myself in a game for ~$500.00

I then won a 1.2k pot. It started out multi-way, then went 3 way on the flop after the raises. I won & was now sitting on ~1.5k with ~$900 of my bankroll not on the table.

If a guy, who had my 1.5k covered, went all-in pre-flop & showed AK, I would have auto-mucked my QQ.
I understand where you're coming from and wouldn't fault someone for folding QQ to a shove when a large % of your bankroll is on the table - although, as I alluded to in that debate, if you had the bankroll, it's a call- your anecdote is also a little different in context. That debate was about sitting at 2/5 with 1000 BI if I remember correctly, you're talking about 1/2, and having 750BB. Depending on the place, 2/5 deep BI can play rather loose because some Vs are trying to get deep fast, so they'll take a flip to try to get deeper with other players, not many people are slinging 750BB in light at 1/2 from what I've seen.
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Old 01-22-2016, 02:29 PM   #12906
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by VolumeKing View Post
GTO is a method to play unexploitably.
True.

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It is not a way to maximize your winrate.
Not exactly true, because it's all relative. If your table is full of really really bad players that are just extremely unbalanced, then naturally you want to also make unbalanced plays to exploit them.

But if you are at a table of observant players, then GTO could arguably be the most profitable way to play.

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It is more widely used to reduce ones losses when playing versus a superior player.
On the flip side, to win more when playing versus a strong player.

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There is almost no reason to play GTO in live poker below 10/25
Absolute statement like this one just doesn't sit well with me.
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Old 01-22-2016, 02:32 PM   #12907
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RP has destroyed many egos over the years. He was probably a virgin on high school debate team.
Took GMAT and mastered the art of reading comprehension and sentence correction.
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Old 01-22-2016, 02:36 PM   #12908
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Took GMAT and mastered the art of reading comprehension and sentence correction.
Confirmed virgin.

May be same guy who took English 101 for me.
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Old 01-22-2016, 02:53 PM   #12909
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True.



Not exactly true, because it's all relative. If your table is full of really really bad players that are just extremely unbalanced, then naturally you want to also make unbalanced plays to exploit them.

But if you are at a table of observant players, then GTO could arguably be the most profitable way to play.



On the flip side, to win more when playing versus a strong player.



Absolute statement like this one just doesn't sit well with me.
You're right the first two times, but is saying almost no reason an absolute?
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Old 01-22-2016, 02:56 PM   #12910
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Que?
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Old 01-22-2016, 03:28 PM   #12911
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Well this thread is going to ****

I'm in AC for the weekend for winter open if anyone is around shoot me a PM. Clubbin with the biddies tonight
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Old 01-22-2016, 03:34 PM   #12912
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Well this thread is going to ****

I'm in AC for the weekend for winter open if anyone is around shoot me a PM. Clubbin with the biddies tonight
Going?
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Old 01-22-2016, 03:52 PM   #12913
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If a player on a short bankroll goes on a heater such that a decent percentage of their bankroll is on table, that would be the time to lock in the win instead of paying as scared money.
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Old 01-22-2016, 03:55 PM   #12914
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Agreed.
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Old 01-22-2016, 03:59 PM   #12915
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Well this thread is going to ****

I'm in AC for the weekend for winter open if anyone is around shoot me a PM. Clubbin with the biddies tonight
It was better with those pictures the other week.
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Old 01-22-2016, 04:01 PM   #12916
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Well this thread is going to ****

I'm in AC for the weekend for winter open if anyone is around shoot me a PM. Clubbin with the biddies tonight
If snowpocalyse 2016 wasn't happening, I probably would have shot down there for a bit

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If a player on a short bankroll goes on a heater such that a decent percentage of their bankroll is on table, that would be the time to lock in the win instead of paying as scared money.
"Floor, table change..."
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Old 01-22-2016, 04:03 PM   #12917
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"Floor, table change..."
Depends on the room
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Old 01-22-2016, 04:06 PM   #12918
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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People on here only care about maximizing hourly and if you participate in discussions but don't have that max hourly perspective, yes, you'll be crucified.
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Wow, you lost a debate. Get over it.
I don't think I needed it but thanks for further proving my point.
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Old 01-22-2016, 04:08 PM   #12919
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It's certainly fine to argue other objectives than maxing win rate, but when alternatives aren't clearly stated, such argument just seems like trolling.
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Old 01-22-2016, 04:09 PM   #12920
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Depends on the room
Touché. I guess I'm spoiled to play in places that routinely have 40+ tables. So yeah, leave or table change.... Or move up to 5/10 because we're hot ish now
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Old 01-22-2016, 04:20 PM   #12921
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I'm no Jax xpert, tho in the room playing 2-5 at the moment. Everybody decent has been tablechanging away. Not because of me lol, just they think bigger fish somewhere else. Guy here called a 3bet to 175 with 200 behind with A4o, not soft enuff the locals say
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Old 01-22-2016, 04:27 PM   #12922
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I'm no Jax xpert, tho in the room playing 2-5 at the moment. Everybody decent has been tablechanging away. Not because of me lol, just they think bigger fish somewhere else. Guy here called a 3bet to 175 with 200 behind with A4o, not soft enuff the locals say
they're moving to tables where they respect raises ldo
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Old 01-22-2016, 04:28 PM   #12923
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Touché. I guess I'm spoiled to play in places that routinely have 40+ tables. So yeah, leave or table change.... Or move up to 5/10 because we're hot ish now
Actually, I meant that some rooms require moving whole stack.
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Old 01-22-2016, 04:31 PM   #12924
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And some rooms don't let you move if you're above 1.5 BI.
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Old 01-22-2016, 04:31 PM   #12925
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I'm no Jax xpert, tho in the room playing 2-5 at the moment. Everybody decent has been tablechanging away. Not because of me lol, just they think bigger fish somewhere else. Guy here called a 3bet to 175 with 200 behind with A4o, not soft enuff the locals say

I just think any table change is because of me.

#centerofuniverse
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