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Old 12-15-2015, 09:43 PM   #12151
Dizzyqtp
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Makes sense - my plan was to move to playing 1/3 for the most part with some 2/5 and 1/2 mixed in. I will probably stick with that for the time being and see how it goes.
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Old 12-16-2015, 09:56 AM   #12152
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post

I continue to believe 1/3 is the best kept secret for the majority of players. 1/2 competition with a $500 max buyin. You do the math.
If the $2/5 games are that bad generally, stick with that $1/3 game.
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Old 12-16-2015, 10:33 AM   #12153
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

problem with 1/3 at parx is there is generally no table selection to be done. they get one table and that's it. 2/5 you can have 12 tables to choose from. 1/2 you can have 20+.
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Old 12-16-2015, 02:21 PM   #12154
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Okay but how much table selection do you really need to be doing at 1/3?
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Old 12-16-2015, 02:39 PM   #12155
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Okay but how much table selection do you really need to be doing at 1/3?
The same as you'd want to do at $1/2?

Find the table with the drunk whale and harpoon him. No reason to sit at a table of rocks and grinders when there's an Asian sitting on $1k two tables over.
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Old 12-16-2015, 02:51 PM   #12156
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Okay but how much table selection do you really need to be doing at 1/3?
The only table selection needed is to see how deep the stacks are.
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Old 12-16-2015, 03:27 PM   #12157
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Okay but how much table selection do you really need to be doing at 1/3?
As much as impact of certain players that may have on your WR.

If difference in player types have no impact on your WR, then table selection is nullified.
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Old 12-16-2015, 06:33 PM   #12158
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Tiger Woods, when he was in his prime, won an unprecedented percentage of the tournaments he entered throughout the year. He was extremely vigilant in picking those tournaments that were played on courses that best fit his game.

That was, however, not the primary reason he won as often as he did. The selection process was far from the front seat of the primary reason he won so often.

The primary purpose of game selection for him, IMO, revolved around being in top form for the Majors and not burning himself out.

The thousands of hours of practice & study put him a position of being able to be very selective, thus maximizing the +Ev of his hard work.
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Old 12-16-2015, 08:31 PM   #12159
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by IbelieveinChipKelly View Post
I know I am going to lose this argument, but ...

$1/$2 is probably $17-$20

$2/$5 is $35-$40

A player who can sit there and play perfectly - absolutely perfectly - can do better. But I have yet to meet a human who can. And even when you play perfectly, you still have to deal with variance.

I just don't want people who have a job making $30K a year to come in here and think, 'Yeah, $50K a year is easy at $1/$2.' I want them to realize it's a crapload tougher than Buz indicated.
I agree with chip here and will say that most grinders I know stop recording results during downswings, which gives them inflated win rates
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Old 12-16-2015, 08:44 PM   #12160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
I continue to believe 1/3 is the best kept secret for the majority of players. 1/2 competition with a $500 max buyin. You do the math.
In my experience, 1/3 in rooms where 1/2 runs is the worst game to play in. They tend to be full of nitty casino regular types bc all the fish want to play as small as possible or they want to play 2/5 or bigger. I would love to play in any 1/3 game short handed and with deep stacks since most of these guys are 1/2 grinders who are under rolled for 2/5 and who don't know what to do when they don't flop the nuts, but long handed 1/3 is just an awful tagfest.
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Old 12-16-2015, 08:53 PM   #12161
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Originally Posted by philepistemer View Post
In my experience, 1/3 in rooms where 1/2 runs is the worst game to play in. They tend to be full of nitty casino regular types bc all the fish want to play as small as possible or they want to play 2/5 or bigger. I would love to play in any 1/3 game short handed and with deep stacks since most of these guys are 1/2 grinders who are under rolled for 2/5 and who don't know what to do when they don't flop the nuts, but long handed 1/3 is just an awful tagfest.

That's also been my experience in rooms that run both $1/2 and $1/3. The $1/3 is a waste of time. Now if you're comparing two different rooms, one with $1/2 and one with $1/3 ... the $1/3 seems to generally be better because of the deeper buy-ins.
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Old 12-16-2015, 09:03 PM   #12162
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'm glad I have no idea what any of you are talking about.
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Old 12-16-2015, 09:38 PM   #12163
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

“Its hard to be a diamond in a rhinestone world.” - Dolly Parton

“Until you're ready to look foolish, you'll never have the possibility of being great. - Cher
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Old 12-17-2015, 01:03 AM   #12164
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by IbelieveinChipKelly View Post
I want people who have a job making $30K a year to come in here and think, 'Yeah, $50K a year is easy at $1/$2.'
fyp
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Old 12-17-2015, 06:17 AM   #12165
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Interesting about you guys's game. The bigger game have had the opposite effects on mine.

My area only has 1/2 but it has a bigger game running about once a week (1-3-6) and a bigger, private 1-2-5-10 once a month.

The 5-10 is a dreamworld every time and so is the 1-3-6 about half the time, but when the bigger game runs, the 1-2 is dead, complete waste of time, I probably don't even beat those 1-2 tbh, I'm really good at getting value and not really good with bluffing and I'm not used to people folding TP much and don't ever expect it.

Too big of a nit to get into that 5-10 Whatever, some guy putting up the connection to run it deserves his huge fish tank I guess.
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Old 12-17-2015, 08:33 AM   #12166
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Casino I play has 1/2, 1/3, 2/5, 5/T. I tend to find the $1/2 games to be too tight, OMCs and people who play to not lose tend be found here(check/call down with non nut monsters). $1/3 is the fishier game and $2/5 has more people trying to win and more wealthy guys whose ego would never let them be playing at the bottom of the totem pole stakes, and while they may be more poker competent, they will be likely to gamble and make mistakes.
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Old 12-17-2015, 10:59 AM   #12167
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
Kinda makes me think most 2/5 players are only playing due to ego problems.
Well put.

Unless you're a crusher at 2-5, table selecting between 1-2 and 2-5 is a great way to go I think. A huge percentage of 2-5 regs wouldn't be caught dead in a 1-2 game.
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Old 12-17-2015, 02:11 PM   #12168
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by RelentlessDoubt View Post
I agree with chip here and will say that most grinders I know stop recording results during downswings, which gives them inflated win rates




then the grinders you know arent really grinders at all. thats pretty laughable, obfuscating results. you are only cheating yourself
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Old 12-17-2015, 02:19 PM   #12169
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Most people use WR as some sort of self-assurance. Makes a lot of sense actually.

How often do people lie to themselves every day?
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Old 12-17-2015, 02:45 PM   #12170
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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So you don't think you leave 15 an hour on the tables every time you play? I'm certain I leave a load more than that
Me too. I guess I make $20-$40/hr worth of obvious, correctable mistakes @ a $1/2 $500max level.

How much am I leaving behind at $2/5? $5/10?

What about all of the small edges I don't yet see with my current skill level?

It is a sobering thought.
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Old 12-17-2015, 03:03 PM   #12171
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Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete View Post
Most people use WR as some sort of self-assurance. Makes a lot of sense actually.

How often do people lie to themselves every day?



Sure some people do, but most real "pros" would not lie to themselves about their WR.

I've logged over 3000 hours of live poker through pokerjournal, and not once have I ever entered a false session or ommitted results.
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Old 12-17-2015, 03:23 PM   #12172
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Originally Posted by HappyLuckBox View Post
Sure some people do, but most real "pros" would not lie to themselves about their WR.

I've logged over 3000 hours of live poker through pokerjournal, and not once have I ever entered a false session or ommitted results.
Nobody said anything about real or fake pros.

It's great that you don't lie about your results.

GOOD JOB!
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Old 12-17-2015, 03:31 PM   #12173
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by HappyLuckBox View Post
Sure some people do, but most real "pros" would not lie to themselves about their WR.

I've logged over 3000 hours of live poker through pokerjournal, and not once have I ever entered a false session or ommitted results.
The only thing I did once was to not update my phone for a few weeks because I felt seeing red was affecting me.

After it had turned around a little I went back and entered all the info to catch back up.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using 2+2 Forums
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Old 12-17-2015, 03:58 PM   #12174
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by kookiemonster View Post
Me too. I guess I make $20-$40/hr worth of obvious, correctable mistakes @ a $1/2 $500max level.

How much am I leaving behind at $2/5? $5/10?

What about all of the small edges I don't yet see with my current skill level?

It is a sobering thought.
That's an insanely high number. Keep in mind that making a bad $100 call doesn't lose you $100 of EV. May only lose you $20.
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Old 12-17-2015, 04:15 PM   #12175
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*** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

I disagree. That number is achievable.

$500 max makes the game very attractive.
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