Not too tight. Raising SCs from EP is fairly suicidal imo. Wouldn't open under QJs from EP.

Thanks t_roy! What would your range look like for the 1st 3 seats after the BB?

Ed Miller, in his book "The Course" is recommending 22+ A2s+ KTs+ QTs+ 76s+ AQo+, for all seats from UTG down to CO, which he says can be adjusted for table dynamics, etc.

I find it outrageously loose for UTG+1/2/3 in a 10 handed game.

He says the main point is the frequency in which we enter the pot, which would be ~14%. You're also opening for a raise.

ALSO: you'll hold a PP 41% of the time, suited cards 46% of the time & offsuit cards only 14% of the time.

However, I find in my typical 1/2 games an average stack of $200-$250, so I don't know that a suited connector is nearly as valuable as when the stacks are deeper.

So he more or less recommends the same opening range regardless of position? Really?

The book provides 4 ranges (EP, CO, BU, and blinds) with the reasoning that it's much easier to remember 4 ranges rather than 10 and the differences between UTG and UTG+2 are not really that important. Clearly his EP range is suboptimal in that you should play fewer hands UTG and more hands in the HJ, but I think the composition of the opening range is the most interesting part. Like the fact that he recommends opening 22 or A3s UTG while suggesting that you fold AJo in the HJ. It's food for thought for sure.

I have yet to read about anyone killin' the 1/2 game opening with 22+ A2s+ KTs+ QTs+ 76s+ AQo+ from UTG & not opening up anymore until you get to the CO.

PLUS: His ranges are looser than what Matthew Janda recommends for 6 handed play in his book AONLH, which UTG 6-handed, is: 33+; 65s+ J9s+; KTs+; ATs+ AJo+; KQo.

Maybe the difference lies in the fact that Janda's book revolves around on-line play.

Those ranges might suck

This discussion probably shouldn't be in this thread...
Any suited broadway>AJo from EP though

Janda's book is also very GTO-oriented, which is clearly not what Miller is talking about. If you read between the lines, his goal seems to be to select hands that can get a ton of money in against weak ranges and still have equity when called. A big theme is punishing weak ranges by putting in lots of money with a strong range, and a hand like AJo is not great for that because of RIO.

lol amazing

I know. The amazing part being that I can't tell what's a troll and what isn't anymore.

C
M
Kimmo mi

Miller's latest book was written almost as a "Poker for Dummies," hence he had some very specific things to follow.

Janda's book was written to target those who are already winning experts; it is aimed to educate them to be even more conscious of elements of game of poker.

Comparing these two books is non-sensical.

That range seems a bit ridiculous to me. I know Miller plays mostly in Vegas and writes with those games in mind. Vegas games are fairly unique as I understand, so maybe it works there. In most places, I don't think that range is very good.

I don't have a specific range to give you, but I definitely wouldn't be opening small suited Aces and SCs from EP in my game.

You really can't go wrong playing quite tight from EP imo.

Miller's, Janda's, or both?

I've talked to a few good players I know & this came up. The problem is that you need better stack sizes than average of $200/$250 in 1/2 game filled with 4 or so TIGHT players lookin' to supplement their SSI with a $100 score for the day & scoot on home.

What's amazing?

Please elaborate.

This preflop hand selection strategy must be a joke. Open-Folding strong hands like AJo in MP and instead open-raising trash like A2s in MP?

Feels like lighting money on fire...

Is it possible that Miller's opening ranges are one massive level intended to open up the games and encourage people to play incorrectly against his opening ranges?

Don't think so, but possible. Miller's strat in the Vegas games is to basically hit the nuts and get paid, or take a ton of pots away from Vegas nits when they cap their ranges. I can see how this range is in line with that general strat. Again, Vegas is special.

Please enlighten us how AJo has more playability than A2s

lol.

I've been suspicious that Ed Miller might be leveling his readers for an extremely long time.

AJo dominates a lot of hands in typical live NLHE calling ranges. A2s never dominates anything and can be dominated easily. This allows AJo to get a lot of thick value from weaker TPs on 30% of flops. Meanwhile, A2s has to worry about RIO on the 15% of flops where it is lucky to flop TPNK.

As far as playability, AJo often has 2 over cards to the board. It can even flop 8-out straight draws on flops like QT8 or QT9. A2s can NEVER flop an 8-out straight draw. AJo straight draws are always to the nuts while the A2s gutters are always to the second or 3rd nuts. Just as importantly, AJo flopped nut straight will cooler J9 second nut straight on KQT flop. Meanwhile, A2s will get coolered by 76s on 543 flop.

Finally, AJ-high is much more likely to win at showdown than A2-high.

Please enlighten us how the playability of A2s matters more than the generally more profitable AJo.

Sooted

I have played a fair amount of poker with Mr miller in las vegas and I promise you all that those are NOT his hand ranges. He plays tight as foook from EP

This is from his "Poker's 1%" book:

It's a 2/5 game with 1k effective stacks.
You open to $15 from the CO with A4
The SB raises to $55, the BB folds & you call.

There's $115 in the pot & $945 behind.

The flop comes: 853

The SB bets $70, you min-raise to $140, the SB calls.

$395 in the pot and $805 behind.

Turn: 853T

SB checks, you bet $270 & the SB calls.

$935 in the pot & $535 behind.

River: 853TQc

You've made your nut flush but that was Plan D!
Plan A was to win the pot with a blind steal.
Plan B was to win the pot on this favorable flop
Plan C was to win the pot on the turn with a fairly massive bet.

When none of that worked, Plan D was put into play: Suckout.

"If you don't play hands like the above, then you're doing it all wrong." - Ed Miller.

He failed to mention Plan E - Rebuy.