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Old 11-25-2015, 08:02 PM   #11826
Ragequit99
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete View Post
FWIW, most profitable way of playing and least likely to go busto way of playing are not the same.
This is very true and I'm not going to go mental with my £4,000. Observation/Nit mode will be activated a large% of the time.
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Old 11-25-2015, 08:16 PM   #11827
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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For me personally, I would consider myself taking a shot at 2/5NL if I had 4k more than I needed for my 1/2NL bankroll [that guarantees <5% ROR] & decide to use the 4k to see how I do.

I was surprised to read squid face's post where he said 5k was an ample roll for him.

I thought you would need 25k, i.e., 50 buy-in's to reduce your ROR to <5% playing 2/5NL.
If someone is a crusher (like squid face is), he would only need 10k bankroll to grind live 2/5 NL exclusively as long as he had 6 months of expenses saved up. The poster in question is a novice at live poker, so he is probably only a slight winner at live 2/5 NL (maybe a small winner if he sat exclusively in juicy lineups). So, the poster in question would probably need much more than 10k roll to make up for his having a relatively small win-rate at live 2/5 NL.
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Old 11-25-2015, 08:18 PM   #11828
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Pretty sure squid is not saying that he can grind 2/5 with $5k AND 6 months saved up.

He said that he can grind 2/5 with $5k.
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Old 11-25-2015, 08:23 PM   #11829
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Pretty sure squid is not saying that he can grind 2/5 with $5k AND 6 months saved up.

He said that he can grind 2/5 with $5k.
In that post, he quoted the poster who said that he had 6k to his name while living at home with parents who took care of all his expenses.

So, squid face was just saying $5k needed because he assumed the situation of the poster (who doesn't need money for expenses because his parents take care of his rent/expenses).

Squid face can speak for himself, but it is pretty obvious that squid face WAS NOT referring to $5k roll for a grinder who was living on his own and who had to take care of his own expenses.
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Old 11-25-2015, 08:23 PM   #11830
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by zuneit
For me personally, I would consider myself taking a shot at 2/5NL if I had 4k more than I needed for my 1/2NL bankroll [that guarantees <5% ROR] & decide to use the 4k to see how I do.

I was surprised to read squid face's post where he said 5k was an ample roll for him.

I thought you would need 25k, i.e., 50 buy-in's to reduce your ROR to <5% playing 2/5NL.
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I will expound my man.

I said buying in for 100 bigs in those particular games I would feel comfy with a 5k roll. I have played a lot of poker AND I have played those games. I know precisely where and what my edge is. Anything can and will happen in gamboolin and 10+ bi downswings do occur. But I am quite self aware and am able to reevaluate my situation and what needs to be done to prevent going busto.

I also tried to make it clear that I do not know if he will be able to adjust from online to live
Yes sir! I took your post as meaning exactly that. I was, again, unclear in my post I guess. Now that I have had time to think about it, I believe your huge skill edge over the player pool allows you to make that statement.

As to what a required bankroll would be, I keep falling back on two things:
1. What I've read in books
2. What Bryan Devonshire said in one of his articles in Cardplayer magazine where he said he once went on an 18 month downswing.

Of course, Bryan probably didn't have the huge skill edge vs. his player pool in the games he was playing in at the time.

Last edited by ZuneIt; 11-25-2015 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 11-25-2015, 08:26 PM   #11831
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*** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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In that post, he quoted the poster who said that he had 6k to his name while living at home with parents who took care of all his expenses.



So, squid face was just saying $5k needed because he assumed the situation of the poster (who doesn't need money for expenses because his parents take care of his rent/expenses).

I still don't understand how 5k roll with 6 month living expenses is different than just saying you have 5k + 18k (assuming 3k living expense).

It's not like you would stop playing poker and live off the 6 months living expense if you bust that $5k.

So which is it squid, 5k or 20k?
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Old 11-25-2015, 09:12 PM   #11832
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Obviously you are just trolling but Squid was clearly talking about his bankroll. LoL @ you presuming to know his living expenses. I can't speak for squid but I can speak for myself and my living expenses are $0/mo and the chances of me going broke at 2/5 with a $5k roll are pretty pretty pretty small.
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Old 11-25-2015, 09:25 PM   #11833
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This is what Sneaky Pete does. He finds posts he can argue & then continues to ride the wave when he gets them to bite.

You can ck out his posts & you'll find it's a habit of his. I've lost track of the number of times he's told the person he's debating with that their posts are "convoluted" or "muddled."

He has never made an original post.

squid face's original comment was based solely upon what $ amount he would need to grind out 2/5 & not go broke the vast majority of the time. It did not take into account anything else. That was quite obvious. Yet here we are, with Sneaky Pete looking for a debate.
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Old 11-25-2015, 09:34 PM   #11834
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Zuneit, can you not read that I was not the one suggesting that it was $5k plus 6 months expenses?

And don't take it personal because you are looking for friendship in this forum and I am not.
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Old 11-25-2015, 09:37 PM   #11835
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Obviously you are just trolling but Squid was clearly talking about his bankroll. LoL @ you presuming to know his living expenses. I can't speak for squid but I can speak for myself and my living expenses are $0/mo and the chances of me going broke at 2/5 with a $5k roll are pretty pretty pretty small.
You don't eat or drive?
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Old 11-25-2015, 09:53 PM   #11836
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by NeverLosesAtPoker View Post
Obviously you are just trolling but Squid was clearly talking about his bankroll. LoL @ you presuming to know his living expenses. I can't speak for squid but I can speak for myself and my living expenses are $0/mo and the chances of me going broke at 2/5 with a $5k roll are pretty pretty pretty small.

I can't even get through 4 hours for $0
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Old 11-25-2015, 10:02 PM   #11837
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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You don't eat or drive?
Of course not, all of his time is spent making things up.
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Old 11-25-2015, 10:41 PM   #11838
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I can't even get through 4 hours for $0
You go for the high quality massage parlors i see.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:18 PM   #11839
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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You don't eat or drive?

I eat out every meal (eat twice a day). It's all taken care of though.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:33 PM   #11840
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Of course not, all of his time is spent making things up.

For a guy as successful as he is, he sure is wasting a lot of time with us little people.
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Old 11-26-2015, 12:56 AM   #11841
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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You don't eat or drive?
Lives in basement, mom cooks and drops him off ldo
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Old 11-26-2015, 01:16 AM   #11842
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I still don't understand how 5k roll with 6 month living expenses is different than just saying you have 5k + 18k (assuming 3k living expense).

It's not like you would stop playing poker and live off the 6 months living expense if you bust that $5k.

So which is it squid, 5k or 20k?
what I was saying was if i were in his shoes I would feel comfy with my skillz playing with a 5k roll buying in for 100 bigs

In terms of bank roll it is all pie in the sky mental masturbation stuff.

In my last 8k+ hours of 2/5 buying in for 200 bigs my biggest downswing has been approx 7.5k playing in some of the toughest deepstack games full time

of that there was some BAD play on my behalf.

My downswing was larger than cushlashes, rob farhas, street poker chicks, Gooses, and just about any vegas pro whose game I respect.

those are a lot of hours combined

Soooo my point being if you suck at poker you will need a much larger roll than if you kick ass

I have a bunch of cash but I do not think about a roll anymore...and really havent in quite some time.
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Old 11-26-2015, 01:19 AM   #11843
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Lives in basement, mom cooks and drops him off ldo
It's actually a garage penthouse (we don't have basements down here). She also picks me up.
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Old 11-26-2015, 11:24 AM   #11844
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Isn't 50 buyins overdoing it for live fullring?

I'm planning on returning to playing 1/2 at the casino in the new year as I will have a 4K roll ready then. Isn't 20 buyins sufficient?

Like SneakyPete says - I'm just going to be sat there waiting for fish to do stupid stuff and hope to book easy wins...
Funny, I use to tell everyone. If you bust a 2k bankroll at 1/2, you should quit and fined a new hobby.

Then in March I went on $1900 downswing, and was actually over 2 k mark in the next session before pulling out of it. Granted, the game plays bigger than most 1/3 games.

But 4k, in a standard 1/2 game (100 BB buy-in). Is more than enough. If you lose 2k. You should probably go do something else with the other 2k.

I wouldn't wait till first off year either. Just start playing when you have a buy-in. Add to your bankroll as money comes available.
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Old 11-26-2015, 11:35 AM   #11845
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I wouldn't dismiss a 2k downswing in shallower 1/2 games either. The variance can be higher because more hands will go to showdown and bad players will realize their equity more often.
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Old 11-26-2015, 01:16 PM   #11846
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It really depends. If you're good and your game features mega soft, passive, face up players and a $200 max buy-in, $2000 downswing would be very rare without some play-bad to assist. Deep stacked action 1-2 tables, standard run bad.
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Old 11-26-2015, 02:18 PM   #11847
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I buy-in for $300 in my 1/2 games but when I was livin' off a shallow roll, I bought in for $200 & went on 2 downswings of 1.1k & 1.3k. Once my roll got over 6k & I started buying in for $300, I've never had a 1k downswing.

I don't take that to mean I won't experience one. If Johnny Chan can win 12 coin flips in a row, I can lose 12 coin flips in a row.......
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Old 11-26-2015, 07:54 PM   #11848
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I have larger downswings in shorter games, and have had 15 buyin downswings at 1/3 and 2/5. I probably spewed 1/4 of the buyins. My point is it happens a lot and even when you play deeper games 800bbs can disappear quite easily. You should be able to lose this much and keep playing your main game, because those swings are normal variance. If you have a 30-50 buyin BR it works
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Old 11-27-2015, 06:19 AM   #11849
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If I want a £10,000 bankroll I'm really going to have to win it.

What do you guys think of avoiding deepstacked play until/if I manage to grow my roll from £4,000 to £8,000? That or I could play a nittier style whenever I find myself deepstacked?

Certainly when I've played online in the past I usually came unstuck following massive losses in single pots while deepstacked. I certainly can't countenance losing £1,000 in a single hand so I guess I'm not going to be able to play my normal game deepstacked until I get over that psychological hurdle.
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Old 11-27-2015, 06:55 AM   #11850
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Yep. When I get deep enough to have 10% of my BR on the table as an effective stack, it's time to get up, imo. I just can't play my A game when I'm that worried about the hit that I could take.
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