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Old 10-28-2015, 06:55 AM   #11601
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If I saw it, I'd think rate of return
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Old 10-28-2015, 07:58 AM   #11602
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If I saw it, I'd think rate of return
You also think crossfit is a valid sport.
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Old 10-28-2015, 09:01 AM   #11603
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+1 for Risk of Ruin
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Old 10-28-2015, 10:06 AM   #11604
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Originally Posted by de4df1sh View Post
Which game do you think would offer the lowest RoR for the same bankroll:

A 2/5 $500 cap with 2x utg straddle

Or a 1/3 $300 cap with 2x-5x Mississippi straddle that is on probably 25%-50% of the time?
Here's a partial HH... MDL 2-5, a few weeks ago. One of the slumber party pros calls flop and turn IP, he's checked to on the river HU on a 973,5,J board, he bets $275 on the river for value, gets called, and his T9o was good.

Don't have to worry about that level of play at the Shoe 1-3.
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Old 10-28-2015, 10:11 AM   #11605
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Originally Posted by suited fours View Post
Here's a partial HH... MDL 2-5, a few weeks ago. One of the slumber party pros calls flop and turn IP, he's checked to on the river HU on a 973,5,J board, he bets $275 on the river for value, gets called, and his T9o was good.

Don't have to worry about that level of play at the Shoe 1-3.
They don't bet that hand for value @ the Shoe, or call with worse?
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Old 10-28-2015, 10:15 AM   #11606
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They don't bet that hand for value @ the Shoe, or call with worse?
Both sides of that hand are pretty alarming.
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Old 10-28-2015, 11:10 AM   #11607
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Not sure how far we can go with this one, given my lack of detail. OOP guy can be found anywhere. For winning players at lower levels, I'd expect them to fold pre or fold the turn, or check back the river, or b/f smaller on the river. I'd expect a large river bet from a winning 1-3 player to almost always be a huge hand and not some merged voodoo.
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Old 10-28-2015, 12:47 PM   #11608
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That's some pretty sick value betting right there.
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Old 10-28-2015, 02:38 PM   #11609
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2/5 is not some pool of geniuses. I'm sure there was some history there.

Merged voodoo isnt exactly the mark of a good player anyway...
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Old 10-29-2015, 09:21 AM   #11610
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LOL, yeah, I look at that hand and think the T9 guy is likely a wizard.

Was he a small asian kid wearing a suit?
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Old 10-29-2015, 11:35 AM   #11611
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Dedfish does not need to fear 2-5 bc some guy bet 2nd pair for value. Cheamon ppl.
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Old 10-29-2015, 01:13 PM   #11612
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He asked which one had the higher RoR. My argument is the MDL 2-5 game is higher variance and a tougher pool than the Shoe 1-3, thus has a higher RoR for a vulnerable bankroll size. I didn't make any claim regarding WR

If anyone who has played both games disagrees with me, that's cool. While I'm biased by my personal results and my overall preference for passive fishy tables, I'm still pretty confident and comfortable with my answer.

Sorry the partial HH wasn't persuasive.
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Old 10-29-2015, 02:05 PM   #11613
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I would think that it goes without saying that higher stake has tougher pool and higher variance.

If you are a weaker player, lower stake would always be better simply because dollar amount per sigma is lower.
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Old 10-30-2015, 09:50 PM   #11614
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what a good end to the month, up 10 bi in 1 session, it all started with me sucking out KQ vs AK pre too

in b4 someone asks wtf i was doing with KQ pre, i could FEEL IT bro
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Old 10-31-2015, 10:19 AM   #11615
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what a good end to the month, up 10 bi in 1 session, it all started with me sucking out KQ vs AK pre too

in b4 someone asks wtf i was doing with KQ pre, i could FEEL IT bro
I think you were lookin' for the "Beats, Brags, and Variance" forum, weren't you?
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Old 10-31-2015, 04:57 PM   #11616
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Im against short stacking because i feel its a indicator you either lack the bankroll to buy in deep or the confidence in your skill to buy in deep, I would suggest dropping to a stake where sitting deep doesnt affect you mentally as much...
You may lose less at short stacking but you win less as well and the short stack strategy is similar to tournament poker you will have to commit your stack in marginal spots where you cant afford to fold.
Rather than short stack i think a stop loss is more idea,and for those that think they have some type of edge short stacking how big could it possibly be, you dont see the best players in the world short stacking for a reason
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Old 10-31-2015, 05:45 PM   #11617
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That's the key right there.

However, I know there are weird rules in Commerce (or at least there were) that not only allow you to move table and buy in minimum, but they actually won't allow you to move a stack above max buy-in.
these are those $40 cap 1/2 rake fest games
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Old 10-31-2015, 05:51 PM   #11618
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Originally Posted by ZuneIt View Post
I think you were lookin' for the "Beats, Brags, and Variance" forum, weren't you?
this thread is my bbv
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Im against short stacking because i feel its a indicator you either lack the bankroll to buy in deep or the confidence in your skill to buy in deep, I would suggest dropping to a stake where sitting deep doesnt affect you mentally as much...
You may lose less at short stacking but you win less as well and the short stack strategy is similar to tournament poker you will have to commit your stack in marginal spots where you cant afford to fold.
Rather than short stack i think a stop loss is more idea,and for those that think they have some type of edge short stacking how big could it possibly be, you dont see the best players in the world short stacking for a reason
i shortstack sometimes when my game is off/the game is bad/i dont really feel like taking decisions & i do that instead of going to roulette or something. usually buy in full after an hour or something, just to get in the game.

usually end up playing 100bbs poker anyway
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Old 10-31-2015, 06:23 PM   #11619
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you still haven't really convinced me why shortstacking is bad
I dont think its bad necessarily, but it can be counter productive depending on your goal. If you want to maximize your WR and time then of course its bad, if your learning the game or taking a shot at a higher stake than normal than it can curve your losses, but if your regularly short stacking at a stake higher than you usually play I feel it developes bad habits and can impede your success over the long run.For example AK on a 20-50BB stack plays much differently than on a 150BB-500BB stack(same goes for middling and lower pairs), now if your aware of the difference already and know how to react in each situation ignore the example, but if your like how I started believing you play the hand the same way no matter the stack sizes it will be an expensive and demoralizing experience with the occasional winning session.

If your not comfortable enough to buy in for the max there may be something underlying wrong with your game that makes buying in deep uncomfortable.

Now this does not pertain to situations where your with friends, having fun or buying into a softer smaller stake game and looking splash around and have a good time.

But if your looking to play seriously I would always recommend buying in for max where if you find yourself in a situation to get all the money in against multiple opponents you make waitng around all day worth it. Lets say you get it in good vs 3 opponents 50BB deep vs 150BB deep I much rather have the 450BB pot over the 150BB short stacked pot.... One thing that is constant between the stack sizes is the amount of time you have to spend at the tables anyway
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Old 10-31-2015, 06:25 PM   #11620
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Originally Posted by kekeeke View Post
this thread is my bbv

i shortstack sometimes when my game is off/the game is bad/i dont really feel like taking decisions & i do that instead of going to roulette or something. usually buy in full after an hour or something, just to get in the game.

usually end up playing 100bbs poker anyway
Bro if you dont feel like being there that day get yourself a copy of Halo lol
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Old 10-31-2015, 06:40 PM   #11621
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Bro if you dont feel like being there that day get yourself a copy of Halo lol
nah i know it's a temporary set back, just need time to get into it
playing D game = 50bbs, when i get up to C-B game, 100bbs

if i played only on A game i would only play 5 hours a week x.x

ALWAYS buying in short is obv bad, everyone will grow to hate you if you do that, not only do you kill the action constantly, but you probably hit and run if your strategy is shortstack only.
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Old 11-04-2015, 10:44 AM   #11622
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Played my first T/T session last night (not really by choice, all the other games had 60+ wait lists) and ran predictably bad at the most inopportune times.

First hour went fine, played tight (really just one hand) and was up about $250 before the wheels fell off.

HH1 (1200 ES): UTG, MP limp, Hero raises AQ to $60 OTB, UTG raises to $160, MP folds, Hero calls. Flop K-4-7 one spade, he checks, I bet $160 he calls, turn 5, ch/ch, river brick he checks I bet $400 he snap calls with KK.

V had 3! like 3 times in the last 15-30 minutes but I still think this was questionable on my part

HH2 (460 ES): MP opens for $40, I call with 77 in HJ, CO calls. Flop 964cc, MP leads $70, I call, BTN folds, turn brick MP checks, I shove for $350, he calls and MHIG

HH3 (960 ES): UTG straddles, one caller, I raise QQ to $100 in CO, BTN makes it $250, I shove for $960, V snap calls with AKo and board runs out 4-9-7-3-A what the eff...

Think stop-and-go may have been better on this one but that could be results oriented. Wasn't expecting to get snapped off by AKo

*Rebuy for $1000*


HH4 (1000 ES): Pick up AA UTG, raise to $40, only BB calls (one of the only hands with only one caller or no 3! preflop ... super!), flop A24r check/check, turn brings flush draw, I bet half pot V folds. Cool.. max value with first set in awhile

HH5 (1100 ES): MP raises to $40, I call with 65, SB 3! to $150 (same V as HH1), MP folds, I call (questionable). Flop K43, V leads for $180, I shove for $950, V snaps with AKo, turn 5, river brick and I go home and get a good night sleep for the first time in a long long time on a Tuesday

The game played pretty much like a 2/5 game with a little more aggression. There was more 3! preflop but also more limping then I expected. It was also surprising to me that NOBODY FOLDS ANYTHING. I thought I had some FE on HH5 as I am playing a set the exact same way but whatever.

Expensive lesson and I don't imagine I will be playing T/T anytime soon until I have a BR that can support bringing 5 bullets as these guys have pockets that don't seem to mind calling anything regardless of what you have or are representing
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Old 11-04-2015, 12:14 PM   #11623
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Played my first T/T session last night (not really by choice, all the other games had 60+ wait lists)
Lol, and here I am playing in a room that 50% of the time only has a single cash game going.

Gjellyofyourchoices;runbetternexttime!G
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Old 11-04-2015, 01:18 PM   #11624
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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
Played my first T/T session last night (not really by choice, all the other games had 60+ wait lists) and ran predictably bad at the most inopportune times.

First hour went fine, played tight (really just one hand) and was up about $250 before the wheels fell off.

HH1 (1200 ES): UTG, MP limp, Hero raises AQ to $60 OTB, UTG raises to $160, MP folds, Hero calls. Flop K-4-7 one spade, he checks, I bet $160 he calls, turn 5, ch/ch, river brick he checks I bet $400 he snap calls with KK.

V had 3! like 3 times in the last 15-30 minutes but I still think this was questionable on my part

HH2 (460 ES): MP opens for $40, I call with 77 in HJ, CO calls. Flop 964cc, MP leads $70, I call, BTN folds, turn brick MP checks, I shove for $350, he calls and MHIG

HH3 (960 ES): UTG straddles, one caller, I raise QQ to $100 in CO, BTN makes it $250, I shove for $960, V snap calls with AKo and board runs out 4-9-7-3-A what the eff...

Think stop-and-go may have been better on this one but that could be results oriented. Wasn't expecting to get snapped off by AKo

*Rebuy for $1000*


HH4 (1000 ES): Pick up AA UTG, raise to $40, only BB calls (one of the only hands with only one caller or no 3! preflop ... super!), flop A24r check/check, turn brings flush draw, I bet half pot V folds. Cool.. max value with first set in awhile

HH5 (1100 ES): MP raises to $40, I call with 65, SB 3! to $150 (same V as HH1), MP folds, I call (questionable). Flop K43, V leads for $180, I shove for $950, V snaps with AKo, turn 5, river brick and I go home and get a good night sleep for the first time in a long long time on a Tuesday

The game played pretty much like a 2/5 game with a little more aggression. There was more 3! preflop but also more limping then I expected. It was also surprising to me that NOBODY FOLDS ANYTHING. I thought I had some FE on HH5 as I am playing a set the exact same way but whatever.

Expensive lesson and I don't imagine I will be playing T/T anytime soon until I have a BR that can support bringing 5 bullets as these guys have pockets that don't seem to mind calling anything regardless of what you have or are representing
HH1 - hate the river bet, what are we repping here?

HH2 - BALLA

HH3 - whatareyagonnado

HH4 - hard to get value H/U with top set on a board like that - how many sd's is v gonna have?

HH5 - fold pre to the 3!, we're not deep enough. AP it's fine but lol expecting a K to fold with an SPR of less than 4.
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Old 11-04-2015, 01:22 PM   #11625
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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
Played my first T/T session last night (not really by choice, all the other games had 60+ wait lists) and ran predictably bad at the most inopportune times.

First hour went fine, played tight (really just one hand) and was up about $250 before the wheels fell off.

HH1 (1200 ES): UTG, MP limp, Hero raises AQ to $60 OTB, UTG raises to $160, MP folds, Hero calls. Flop K-4-7 one spade, he checks, I bet $160 he calls, turn 5, ch/ch, river brick he checks I bet $400 he snap calls with KK.

V had 3! like 3 times in the last 15-30 minutes but I still think this was questionable on my part

HH2 (460 ES): MP opens for $40, I call with 77 in HJ, CO calls. Flop 964cc, MP leads $70, I call, BTN folds, turn brick MP checks, I shove for $350, he calls and MHIG

HH3 (960 ES): UTG straddles, one caller, I raise QQ to $100 in CO, BTN makes it $250, I shove for $960, V snap calls with AKo and board runs out 4-9-7-3-A what the eff...

Think stop-and-go may have been better on this one but that could be results oriented. Wasn't expecting to get snapped off by AKo

*Rebuy for $1000*


HH4 (1000 ES): Pick up AA UTG, raise to $40, only BB calls (one of the only hands with only one caller or no 3! preflop ... super!), flop A24r check/check, turn brings flush draw, I bet half pot V folds. Cool.. max value with first set in awhile

HH5 (1100 ES): MP raises to $40, I call with 65, SB 3! to $150 (same V as HH1), MP folds, I call (questionable). Flop K43, V leads for $180, I shove for $950, V snaps with AKo, turn 5, river brick and I go home and get a good night sleep for the first time in a long long time on a Tuesday

The game played pretty much like a 2/5 game with a little more aggression. There was more 3! preflop but also more limping then I expected. It was also surprising to me that NOBODY FOLDS ANYTHING. I thought I had some FE on HH5 as I am playing a set the exact same way but whatever.

Expensive lesson and I don't imagine I will be playing T/T anytime soon until I have a BR that can support bringing 5 bullets as these guys have pockets that don't seem to mind calling anything regardless of what you have or are representing
HH1 - Never betting this flop, V is highly unlikely to fold flop and you can't really bet any turn card since there's a good chance V c/shove AK/KK/AA. Also proof that the UTG limp/raise is still always KK+ even at higher stakes.

HH5 - I don't expect any V's to fold AK with those stack sizes, especially in a 3b pot. You're just hoping V has JJ/QQ and he might even hero call with those since there's a ton of draws in your range after you just overcall twice and you would probably 3b up front or backraise 4b with AK. It's fine to get it in here with OESFD obviously, but don't expect a fold. Raising less than all in would look stronger too.
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