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Old 10-21-2015, 12:51 AM   #11526
suited fours
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by kookiemonster View Post
I won $5600 over last 20 hours at $1/2. I'm going pro. Gonna make $500K easy.
Go go go
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Old 10-21-2015, 04:49 AM   #11527
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Originally Posted by eldiesel View Post
2 incomes
Yes, and they aren't saving much money. johnnyBuz is saving a ****load of money. Most Americans don't have any savings to their name at all (most poker players included).
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Old 10-21-2015, 07:56 AM   #11528
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Play 40 hours per week and make a cool million

Then write a book, become a coach and quit poker
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Old 10-21-2015, 07:59 AM   #11529
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Question for buzz, slim or whoever?

You mentioned that you have a Roth 401k and a Roth IRA, I'm familiar with the latter but am ignorant of the first...should I be converting my rollover Ira (formerly 401k) to Roth 401k/ is that even possible? What consideration(s) should I be making.

Thanks in advance
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:10 AM   #11530
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
$31,500 - Pretax amount to max out my Roth 401k / Roth IRA
how?

max 401k contribution is like 18k, max roth ira is like 5.5k
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:35 AM   #11531
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Originally Posted by miamicheats View Post
Question for buzz, slim or whoever?

You mentioned that you have a Roth 401k and a Roth IRA, I'm familiar with the latter but am ignorant of the first...should I be converting my rollover Ira (formerly 401k) to Roth 401k/ is that even possible? What consideration(s) should I be making.

Thanks in advance
You can convert the IRA to a Roth IRA, but you have to pay taxes on the amount you convert.

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Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot View Post
how?

max 401k contribution is like 18k, max roth ira is like 5.5k
Roth IRA is after-tax, so the delta must be taxes.
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:21 AM   #11532
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Originally Posted by bobman0330 View Post
Roth IRA is after-tax, so the delta must be taxes.
31.5k - 18k = 13.5k - 5.5k = 8k

tax rate for single, under 190k is 28% (my guess at the tax bracket he's in, though max is 39.6%, so it doesnt matter for my point). that is a bulk of taxes, obv there are others, but fed is the majority

there is no possible way that on 5.5k someone is paying 8k in taxes, that's 59% taxed.

i'm sure there is a reasonable explanation, i'm just curious and couldnt figure it out myself
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:42 AM   #11533
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Originally Posted by bobman0330 View Post
You can convert the IRA to a Roth IRA, but you have to pay taxes on the amount you convert.







Roth IRA is after-tax, so the delta must be taxes.

Oh it's just a back door Roth deposit

My accountant told me about that earlier this year
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:47 AM   #11534
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Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot View Post
31.5k - 18k = 13.5k - 5.5k = 8k

tax rate for single, under 190k is 28% (my guess at the tax bracket he's in, though max is 39.6%, so it doesnt matter for my point). that is a bulk of taxes, obv there are others, but fed is the majority

there is no possible way that on 5.5k someone is paying 8k in taxes, that's 59% taxed.

i'm sure there is a reasonable explanation, i'm just curious and couldnt figure it out myself
The taxable amount is $31k, because the Roth 401(k) is after-tax too. If you make $31k and pay $8k in taxes, you will have $23k left for 401(k)/IRA. That's a 26% rate, which is probably a reasonable average rate (7.5% payroll taxes + just under 20% income taxes).
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Old 10-21-2015, 10:01 AM   #11535
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Originally Posted by bobman0330 View Post
The taxable amount is $31k, because the Roth 401(k) is after-tax too. If you make $31k and pay $8k in taxes, you will have $23k left for 401(k)/IRA. That's a 26% rate, which is probably a reasonable average rate (7.5% payroll taxes + just under 20% income taxes).
gotcha, didnt realize a roth 401k was post tax also.
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Old 10-21-2015, 10:02 AM   #11536
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

The goal of poker should be to die face down in a pile of blow on the hooker's ass... ain't nobody got time for retirement.
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Old 10-21-2015, 10:09 AM   #11537
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^ Yah bob nailed it, it's all after-tax money in the retirement accounts (except for company match which is matched with pretax dollars). Tax free compound interest over 30-40 years is such a ridiculous concept I can't even believe it's a real thing.

Tax free compound interest in a Roth IRA which can be invested in a variety of asset classes not available in a 401k (individual stocks, commodities, real estate, derivative ETF's/ETN's) is even more outrageous.

A lot of (conspiracy) people believe the government will just start appropriating Roth funds or adding some kind of VAT surcharge in the future when U.S. budget problems are even worse than they are now. But I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Bob was also right that you can convert an existing IRA to a Roth IRA. For people that want more flexibility, you can roll over your 401k into an IRA and then convert that IRA to a Roth IRA (pay tax now), but now you have your entire 401k balance in a tax-sheltered account that can compound tax free for 30-40 years. When I eventually quit my current job I am going to roll everything over to my Roth IRA and convert whatever pretax portion I have to post-tax.

Then you take advantage of silly stupid things like backing the truck up into Apple stock during the last recession/crash (2008-2009) and binking 800% returns tax free.
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Old 10-21-2015, 10:25 AM   #11538
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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
^ Yah bob nailed it, it's all after-tax money in the retirement accounts (except for company match which is matched with pretax dollars). Tax free compound interest over 30-40 years is such a ridiculous concept I can't even believe it's a real thing.

Tax free compound interest in a Roth IRA which can be invested in a variety of asset classes not available in a 401k (individual stocks, commodities, real estate, derivative ETF's/ETN's) is even more outrageous.

A lot of (conspiracy) people believe the government will just start appropriating Roth funds or adding some kind of VAT surcharge in the future when U.S. budget problems are even worse than they are now. But I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Bob was also right that you can convert an existing IRA to a Roth IRA. For people that want more flexibility, you can roll over your 401k into an IRA and then convert that IRA to a Roth IRA (pay tax now), but now you have your entire 401k balance in a tax-sheltered account that can compound tax free for 30-40 years. When I eventually quit my current job I am going to roll everything over to my Roth IRA and convert whatever pretax portion I have to post-tax.

Then you take advantage of silly stupid things like backing the truck up into Apple stock during the last recession/crash (2008-2009) and binking 800% returns tax free.
I believe this! The only real advantage of a Roth is that you can effectively contribute more (because you can stash away after-tax rather than pre-tax dollars, which are worth more), but you're subject to a risk of paying some kind of direct (unlikely) or indirect tax burden down the road. And the advantage of tax-free compounding is nice in theory, but there should be a large percentage of your portfolio (basically non-REIT equities) that can live in taxable accounts with minimal tax drag (especially if you are good about harvesting losses). All told, there's a good case to be made for taking the upfront tax benefit.

The real tax hack is HSAs. Tax-deductible contributions, no tax on earnings, and no tax on withdrawal if used for healthcare expenditures. And the kicker is that you can "bank" healthcare expenditures indefinitely, so you can basically just use the HSA as a retirement account, then withdraw all the unreimbursed medical expenses your or your family have ever had tax-free.
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Old 10-21-2015, 10:30 AM   #11539
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i'm a little ignorant on this:

-how does one convert their current 401k to a roth 401k?

-do you just pay the min into your traditional 401k to get the match and then put the rest into a roth 401k run by a 3rd party site (like td ameritrade) or is that something you do through your company?
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Old 10-21-2015, 10:34 AM   #11540
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Originally Posted by bobman0330 View Post
The real tax hack is HSAs. Tax-deductible contributions, no tax on earnings, and no tax on withdrawal if used for healthcare expenditures. And the kicker is that you can "bank" healthcare expenditures indefinitely, so you can basically just use the HSA as a retirement account, then withdraw all the unreimbursed medical expenses your or your family have ever had tax-free.
my buddy works for a very large heath insurance company. he raves about HSAs. when he looked over my new jobs benefits for me, he suggested i take the HSA, for basically this reason. wifey is a little more risk adverse, so she wasnt game for that, especially because we were gonna try to have a 2nd kid soon after that, but i def saw the point you and my buddy were making
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Old 10-21-2015, 10:41 AM   #11541
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot View Post
i'm a little ignorant on this:

-how does one convert their current 401k to a roth 401k?

-do you just pay the min into your traditional 401k to get the match and then put the rest into a roth 401k run by a 3rd party site (like td ameritrade) or is that something you do through your company?
You can't convert your pretax 401k dollars into Roth dollars in your existing 401k, but you may have the option to simply change your contributions from pretax (non-Roth) to post-tax (Roth). Not all plans offer a Roth component, however. You can still get the company match (non-Roth) by contributing after-tax Roth dollars.

I haven't had to do it yet, but I believe the best/easiest time to transfer is when you leave your current job. Once you are no longer employed with your company you have the option of rolling a 401k over into an IRA. That is also the time you can do a Roth conversion where you pay taxes on the pretax amount and are left with an already-taxed, extremely flexible Roth IRA.
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Old 10-21-2015, 10:51 AM   #11542
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Originally Posted by bip! View Post
The goal of poker should be to die face down in a pile of blow on the hooker's ass... ain't nobody got time for retirement.
finally the voice of reason.
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Old 10-21-2015, 11:31 AM   #11543
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Originally Posted by AlexLacasse View Post
For some of you guys with 2000+ hours of play, is this reasonable? Were your largest downswings close to this or should I expect it to hurt a bit more?
At the ~1,800 hr mark of 1/3 NL, I hadn't officially booked a 500bb downswing (although close twice).

Now at the ~2,450 hr mark, and I've since booked ~950bb and ~770bb downswings.

Gjustonemansresults,8.3bb/hrwinneroverall,but****canhappen,andfastG
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Old 10-21-2015, 11:56 AM   #11544
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
At the ~1,800 hr mark of 1/3 NL, I hadn't officially booked a 500bb downswing (although close twice).

Now at the ~2,450 hr mark, and I've since booked ~950bb and ~770bb downswings.
Pfffttt... try 1600bb on for size at the 2Khr mark (but, I'm slowly climbing back out of the hole).

Spoiler:
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Old 10-21-2015, 12:02 PM   #11545
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Originally Posted by Drrr.Gonzo View Post
+1 lol hey bro im 26 and young money makes me feel like if i dont have at least a million to my name by now i aint ish,,, but seriously I feel super behind , especially in poker,even though black friday hit and my only options were live games i couldnt afford especially as a noob, i feel my progression in poker isnt where it should be,but I feel pressure equivalent to a 36 year old and I dont know why, i do but i dont
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllJackedUp View Post
Pfffttt... try 1600bb on for size at the 2Khr mark (but, I'm slowly climbing back out of the hole).

Spoiler:
Is that my graph?

It looks like my graph. Total garbage in 2015.
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Old 10-21-2015, 12:10 PM   #11546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllJackedUp View Post
Pfffttt... try 1600bb on for size at the 2Khr mark (but, I'm slowly climbing back out of the hole).

Spoiler:
Nothing like a ~500 breakeven stretch after crushing the game for 2K hours. Just keep the faith, good luck.

G3bb/hrwinnerover421hoursin2015,canwealljustagreetogett hisyearoverwith?G
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Old 10-21-2015, 12:11 PM   #11547
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
At the ~1,800 hr mark of 1/3 NL, I hadn't officially booked a 500bb downswing (although close twice).

Now at the ~2,450 hr mark, and I've since booked ~950bb and ~770bb downswings.

Gjustonemansresults,8.3bb/hrwinneroverall,but****canhappen,andfastG
Currently on a 1200bb downswing
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Old 10-21-2015, 12:19 PM   #11548
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Originally Posted by scelsi View Post
Currently on a 1200bb downswing
Fish on heater, should be 1600bb downswing but you've gotten lucky?

Git'sofficial,we'vedecidedtocanceltherestof2015,am irite?G
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Old 10-21-2015, 12:34 PM   #11549
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Downswings are definitely sustainable.
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Old 10-21-2015, 01:29 PM   #11550
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Originally Posted by AllJackedUp View Post
Downswings are definitely sustainable.
lol

Got me a 4 session win streak after a 860BB downswong for me over just shy of 80 hours. At least 400BB of those losses at least are due to horrendous play by me.

DlooklikeageniuswhenyouflopgoodeveryhandCFT.
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