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Old 09-26-2015, 03:30 PM   #11076
mreps
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
Played a 6 hour session at 2/5 last night and won $7. I'm what you could call a "crusher."
How many hundreds did you tip the dealers? You should keep a little more for your time imho.
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Old 09-26-2015, 04:35 PM   #11077
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by wiffle View Post
i know it's just an example, but carlos beltran is pretty much the definition of clutch (if it exists, anyway)
I know he has this reputation somehow. Just like how people thought Jay Cutler was worth having until a few years ago. And people think Dwight Howard is useful enough to be a starter in the NBA. And Sabathia and Ryan Howard are worth $25million/year for some reason.

Lot of misconceptions out there.

Beltran's the Andre Johnson of baseball. Played forever, puts up stats every year, but everything is in blowouts or very early in games. When there's pressure he feels it and freezes. Never actually decides a game.
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Old 09-26-2015, 04:59 PM   #11078
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I know he has this reputation somehow. Just like how people thought Jay Cutler was worth having until a few years ago. And people think Dwight Howard is useful enough to be a starter in the NBA. And Sabathia and Ryan Howard are worth $25million/year for some reason.

Lot of misconceptions out there.

Beltran's the Andre Johnson of baseball. Played forever, puts up stats every year, but everything is in blowouts or very early in games. When there's pressure he feels it and freezes. Never actually decides a game.
lol, check stats
fangraphs.com. check his high leverage. check his postseason.
you're welcome
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Old 09-26-2015, 05:02 PM   #11079
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

and obviously dwight howard is a starting caliber player
wtf
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Old 09-26-2015, 05:21 PM   #11080
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Cutler is a Joke. I'm a packers fan, and I love that guy!!! I hope he's a Bear forever. The leader of your time has to give a **** for the team to be good.

Ryan Howard (Phillies Fan here): Obviously not worth 25 mill... if he kept up his insane stats that earned him that contract then yeah. Still he's not complete **** even now.
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Old 09-26-2015, 05:33 PM   #11081
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by squid face View Post
wow this thread is really bumming me out. Cuz my last eight thousand plus hours of winning at over 50 per hour at 2/5 are clearly not a large enough sample size AND I am destined to regress toward the mean and come back down to a MAX win rate of approx 25 per hour according to the perfessionalz in these boards. I hope I dont get my house repoed and wind up homeless...
fake. also this guy spelled perfessional with a z so don't listen.

Guys - 10bb/hr is possible but it's nowhere near as frequent as people on an anonymous internet forum posting unverifiable winrates claim it to be.

Sometimes on 2+2 you'd be lead to believe 10bb/hr is the benchmark for a good player, it's not. Not that many guys make that much because it's difficult, but they do exist I promise
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Old 09-26-2015, 05:50 PM   #11082
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Get back on track folks. Not the sports thread.
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Old 09-26-2015, 06:17 PM   #11083
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Get back on track folks. Not the sports thread.
Say not a sports thread and then tells us to get on the track. smh
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Old 09-26-2015, 06:33 PM   #11084
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by RobFarha View Post
fake. also this guy spelled perfessional with a z so don't listen.

Guys - 10bb/hr is possible but it's nowhere near as frequent as people on an anonymous internet forum posting unverifiable winrates claim it to be.

Sometimes on 2+2 you'd be lead to believe 10bb/hr is the benchmark for a good player, it's not. Not that many guys make that much because it's difficult, but they do exist I promise
So what is the benchmark of good players these days, in your opinion?
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Old 09-26-2015, 06:35 PM   #11085
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by KingCa$ino View Post
So what is the benchmark of good players these days, in your opinion?
breakeven or small loser, IMO.
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Old 09-26-2015, 06:47 PM   #11086
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by KingCa$ino View Post
So what is the benchmark of good players these days, in your opinion?
depends on many, many things. Buyin structure, player pool, hours played etc.

I play in Vegas in 200bb games mostly, so in that setting (Vegas is notoriously more difficult than every other locale imo) I think anyone making 5bb/hr is a decent enough player.

This will probably be laughed at as a benchmark cause everyone is the best at everything on the internet, but this is a realistic benchmark in my opinion.

My real answer would be the good is so subjective and putting a concrete number out there serves very little purpose, but I know no one wants to hear that , so I'll go with 5.
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Old 09-26-2015, 06:48 PM   #11087
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by AllJackedUp View Post
This thread is already about a ~meaningless stat, but has really become stupid.

Believing online WRs relate to live WRs is a false premise; all conclusions which are drawn will be fallacious.
Some things transfer over. I find it really hard to believe a grinder can make 30bb/100 over the course of their career if they don't even have the technical ability to win at something as low as 25nl.
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Old 09-26-2015, 07:01 PM   #11088
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Siculamente View Post
Some things transfer over. I find it really hard to believe a grinder can make 30bb/100 over the course of their career if they don't even have the technical ability to win at something as low as 25nl.
The skill sets needed to beat live or online are vastly different.
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Old 09-26-2015, 07:08 PM   #11089
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Siculamente View Post
Some things transfer over. I find it really hard to believe a grinder can make 30bb/100 over the course of their career if they don't even have the technical ability to win at something as low as 25nl.
Survivor vs Chess
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Old 09-26-2015, 07:08 PM   #11090
Dopedupwalrus
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot View Post
The skill sets needed to beat live or online are vastly different.
I've been reading this thread for a few days... I've seen this statement made, the statement its in response to, and then the follow up response a statistically significant number of times, and therefore know that the rate at which it appears is sustainable.
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Old 09-26-2015, 07:25 PM   #11091
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by meale View Post
You saying it's being done and not offering proof doesn't mean a lot to me.
so you need forensics?
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Old 09-26-2015, 07:34 PM   #11092
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot View Post
The skill sets needed to beat live or online are vastly different.
I'm not talking about being able to beat live. I'm talking about a grinder being able to crush it for 10bb/hr long term.

Sorry but you don't cruise along at 10bb/hr forever by just flopping sets and never tilting. It comes from having a sound poker theory base.

And the live crushers that just silently disappear and are never heard from again don't have the poker theory. Not even enough be beat 25nl.

Same goes from many guys who continually ask questions / post threads in what would be very abc straight forward if they took the time understand theory.

but the people who can beat 25nl+ have a big edge over guys IF they don't have huge live leaks which many online players obviously do
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Old 09-26-2015, 08:03 PM   #11093
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by KingCa$ino View Post
So what is the benchmark of good players these days, in your opinion?
Has money in three years
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Old 09-26-2015, 08:24 PM   #11094
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

No amount of crushing the 25nl game (which on Bovada isn't even much tougher than 1/2 live btw) is going to prepare an online player for what it's like when he raises 10 bb and gets called in 4 spots.
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Old 09-26-2015, 08:29 PM   #11095
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siculamente View Post
Some things transfer over. I find it really hard to believe a grinder can make 30bb/100 over the course of their career if they don't even have the technical ability to win at something as low as 25nl.
I don't think anybody is suggesting a player who is unable to beat micros online could step in and make 10bb/hr in live games.

A lot of things do transfer over, yes. (I was an online guy who worked my way up from .10/.25 FR [~2bb/100 wr] to become a 6max 2/4 reg [3bb/100 wr], if that adds to my credibility). There are a lot of us on llsnl that beat both, I'm probably the worst player of the group (and definitely think my game is several degrees worse now than it was pre BF, playing llsnl has made me dumb).

The online guys that get in trouble live are the ones who only know how to play the standard online playbook. The playbook doesn't transfer over to llsnl.

The other things that don't transfer over are the social environment, the speed of play, physical tells, lack of software aid, etc.
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Old 09-26-2015, 08:36 PM   #11096
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by BirdsallSa View Post
No amount of crushing the 25nl game (which on Bovada isn't even much tougher than 1/2 live btw) is going to prepare an online player for what it's like when he raises 10 bb and gets called in 4 spots.
maybe, but crushing 25nl and playing live poker for 100ish hours will
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Old 09-26-2015, 09:42 PM   #11097
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by wiffle View Post
maybe, but crushing 25nl and playing live poker for 100ish hours will
Confirmed. I played 100nl 6max bovada and started playing 1/2 live. Took me about 30 hours to adapt. I am now crushing 2/5 live and am playing 5nl 6max online at bovada.
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Old 09-26-2015, 10:25 PM   #11098
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Jeez just hopped on Bovada after 6 months of live. Hahaha that place is like a machine. Can you get stats on anyone?? I always thought that was kinda cheap, i thought i read you could turn privacy on or something to hide that info.
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Old 09-26-2015, 11:21 PM   #11099
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'm about to unsubscribe from this thread because it's bad for the mental game and very rarely contributes anything of substance. If you follow what's being said here, basically you never will know if you're a winner, regardless of your win-rate or hours played live.

How does it help anyone who puts thousands of hours into the game with 5-15bb/hr win rates to tell themselves they could just as well be fish?

There's the occasional strategy post in here, which is nice, last one I read was Bip's post about a table line up, and how sharks go from targeting whales to mediocre weak passives to tag-fish, but there's hundreds of negative posts for every positive one that basically says,

"No, you could just be on a heater".... which translates to, "You just suck".

Imagine if you put a sticky note on your bathroom mirror, and everyday you got up and read it aloud, and what it said was, "Don't think my success means anything, I could just as probably be on a heater", "Don't think my success means anything, I could just as probably be on a heater", ... , "Don't think my success means anything, I could just as probably be on a heater".

Imagine reading that to yourself everyday for years... That's what reading this thread is like.

It's getting to the point, that the only empowering posts in this forum are hand analysis posts; which is unfortunate because I would love to just chat up with fellow poker players and feel good about chatting it up with fellow poker players. Chatting it up with an arbitrary 2p2 posters makes me feel unconfident and ****ty, which of course takes me out of the zone.

I've made a few friends here who I skype with daily and we help each other, but still too few for how many of us partake in this community.
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Old 09-27-2015, 12:28 AM   #11100
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Yeah this thread has become a trainwreck
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