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Old 09-19-2015, 02:37 PM   #10651
Richard Parker
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Siculamente View Post
I can't believe you're trying to argue a table full of regs is a better game than a table of unknowns. Maybe it's just your player pool?
Or maybe you're part of the 80%?

Poker is about knowing how to exploit your opponents...need I say more?
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Old 09-19-2015, 03:00 PM   #10652
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I can't believe you're trying to argue a table full of regs is a better game than a table of unknowns. Maybe it's just your player pool?
I would assume RP is suggesting that the Regs would have to be significantly better than your average unknowns in order to make it worthwhile to give up the advantage of playing with people for whom you presumably already have solid reads.
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Old 09-19-2015, 03:08 PM   #10653
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If your game is built around people calling your nutted hands because they don't know you, then you are indeed part of the losing player population.
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Old 09-19-2015, 03:12 PM   #10654
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by feel wrath View Post
You've changed in recent weeks Ricardo.

A few weeks ago you were saying that you were popular at the table and all the regs think you're a great guy and that this is good for the game and your profits. More recently you've been saying that you're a dick on purpose and that this makes it more profitable

Are there two of you?
I believe you can be both. A whale is a target, can be a dick, and is always very popular.

Also, I never said I am a great guy.
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Old 09-19-2015, 03:31 PM   #10655
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
If your game is built around people calling your nutted hands because they don't know you, then you are indeed part of the losing player population.
For anyone newish who may be reading, the above is misleading. Patiently waiting for solid hands and value betting is a winning strategy.
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Old 09-19-2015, 03:37 PM   #10656
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Uh oh, here we go.......
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Old 09-19-2015, 03:48 PM   #10657
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Originally Posted by progress View Post
For anyone newish who may be reading, the above is misleading. Patiently waiting for solid hands and value betting is a winning strategy.
Of course it is, Cpt. Obvious.

FWIW, if you're new or haven't figured out how to win, reading most of my posts may be -EV.
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Old 09-19-2015, 05:00 PM   #10658
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
Of course it is, Cpt. Obvious.

FWIW, if you're new or haven't figured out how to win, reading most of my posts may be -EV.
They do kill my brain cells so I guess I can agree that is -EV
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Old 09-19-2015, 05:23 PM   #10659
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Part of the issue here is "reg" means different things to different posters.

To me it just means "regular" and can be any caliber of player.

A lot of people seem to take it to mean "good regular" player. Or people just assume a guy who plays 20+ hours a week must be winning... but in truth pros are not typically the hours leaders in a live room.
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Old 09-19-2015, 05:26 PM   #10660
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Home casino had a good game last night with deep stacked 1/2 bad regs. We convinced them to change to 1/2/5 with opt straddle and 2x straddle. Game continued to deepen as regs splashed around.
Drunk whale came in and played every hand, quickly growing his stack to 3k vs the weak regs who adjusted by overplaying all their marginal hands vs him.
Few hours later we get 4handed and whale demands we make it 2/5/T which we all oblige. He 3b shv 150bbs in with JTo on a J653 vs my 66. He reloads and drops another K on the table. We then get 3 handed and other solid reg leaves me headsup with a 1/2 fish who has never played headsup before.
Game breaks 6am and we have our first $4k cash out.
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Old 09-19-2015, 05:28 PM   #10661
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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They do kill my brain cells so I guess I can agree that is -EV
Case in point.
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Old 09-19-2015, 06:09 PM   #10662
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Richard just likes to argue.

This your inflated ego talking Richard. It doesn't really matter if you can exploit the same grindy regs if you can change tables and exploit drooler fish for twice as much.

That's all that should really matter for a pro when playing poker: their bb/hr. Playing super soft fishy unknowns undoubtedly boosts that bottom line.
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Old 09-19-2015, 06:56 PM   #10663
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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[]Part of the issue here is "reg" means different things to different posters.

To me it just means "regular" and can be any caliber of player.
was thinking the same thing last night, albeit for me, 'reg' implies a level of skill as a poker player

perhaps we need a glossary of terms
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Old 09-19-2015, 08:32 PM   #10664
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Plenty of reg fish in most casinos. Also if you know a mediocre player really well, they can be just as big of a profit source as a bad player that you are playing with for the first time.
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Old 09-19-2015, 08:40 PM   #10665
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What's the most profitable way of exploiting an unknown player?

Compare EV of that vs regs who you beat on regular basis.

But if you are constantly getting beat by regs, then playing unknown player would obviously be better.
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Old 09-20-2015, 10:00 PM   #10666
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by de4df1sh View Post
At what point should a poker professional look at home ownership?

We have very little debt, the only debt we have is 240/mo on a car. No student loans, no credit card balance or other stuff.

MrsDeadfish makes 30k or so and I expect to bring in roughly the same. We live a pretty comfortable stress free life, obviously more money is better but we are very content and low maintenance. We are not materialistic and are a very pragmatic people.

our rent is currently 850/mo and our expected mortgage is between 500-650.

I currently have about 18k to my named and about 5k would go towards all of the expenses of home purchasing (down, inspection, closing, ect)

That would leave me with about 12k to play the 1/3 and a 1k emergency roll.

What are you thoughts?

Any advice or insight is greatly appreciated!
I happened across this and figured I'd chime in. I think the biggest thing with your decision is going be your money situation. If you are playing full time it may be far better to just continue paying rent. Purchasing a home is no joke and unexpected expenses can come around at any time. I have the luxury of having a family member in the construction business and it is truly a blessing. The labor alone for home repairs assuming your aren't savvy enough to fix them yourself is outrageous.

I recently purchased a home that was too good of a deal to pass up. The home was in great shape and I was able to purchase it and have equity immediately. However I had to wait a year and a half for a short sale to go through. Basically I would not take this decision lightly and I would do your research. It doesn't hurt to look around and who knows you may come across a great deal. I'd focus on homes that are move in ready and id find a realtor you trust. Best of luck and above all be patient.
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Old 09-20-2015, 10:50 PM   #10667
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Mr_Doomed View Post
I happened across this and figured I'd chime in. I think the biggest thing with your decision is going be your money situation. If you are playing full time it may be far better to just continue paying rent. Purchasing a home is no joke and unexpected expenses can come around at any time. I have the luxury of having a family member in the construction business and it is truly a blessing. The labor alone for home repairs assuming your aren't savvy enough to fix them yourself is outrageous.

I recently purchased a home that was too good of a deal to pass up. The home was in great shape and I was able to purchase it and have equity immediately. However I had to wait a year and a half for a short sale to go through. Basically I would not take this decision lightly and I would do your research. It doesn't hurt to look around and who knows you may come across a great deal. I'd focus on homes that are move in ready and id find a realtor you trust. Best of luck and above all be patient.
+1

Doing it for the money, meh

For quality of life, go for it after research.
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Old 09-21-2015, 01:15 AM   #10668
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

i won 940 today at 2/5. this has been a very good last 3 weeks, I'm playing well and often. Gotta just avoid burn out

so far the comeback is $83.64/h over 81 hours.
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Old 09-21-2015, 01:47 AM   #10669
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Siculamente View Post
Richard just likes to argue.

This your inflated ego talking Richard. It doesn't really matter if you can exploit the same grindy regs if you can change tables and exploit drooler fish for twice as much.

That's all that should really matter for a pro when playing poker: their bb/hr. Playing super soft fishy unknowns undoubtedly boosts that bottom line.
I know we are all supposed to take this as an article of faith, but I am not completely convinced that this is always true.

I have two observations that make me doubt this:

1. For 4 years now, my most profitable day of the week has never varied. It is Tuesday.

2. Certain bad players, especially really aggro bad players, accidentally do a lot of things better than meh regs. Off the top of my head, two are: betting for thin value and balancing their range. The overwhelming leak meh regs have is simply that they play their hands face up. All you really have to do to play perfectly against them is believe them.

So, I don't know. I think it is possible that there could be reasons other than variance that lead a player to have a higher WR against bad regs than against at least some of the really terrible aggro fish.

I'm not saying one way or the other. My mind is open to being persuaded either way.
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Old 09-21-2015, 01:48 AM   #10670
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I lost $450 playing Hold Em & 1k playing PLO last night.
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Old 09-21-2015, 02:11 AM   #10671
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I do better mid-week as well. Much smaller sample size, however. Bad regs are easier to play... Like mpethy said... its all face up. Many fish are much more confusing, and often lead to greater variance for me.
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Old 09-21-2015, 01:41 PM   #10672
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I think we should all come to an agreement for the definition of "live reg" there seems to be some confusion about what it means exactly.

Live reg could mean a fish that plays everyday to a "pro". Personally, I use the word that best fits the player. If a player is a fish, I'm going to describe him as a fish, not a reg because he plays all the time. Same goes for a pro.

A live regular just means a player has played poker for a long time. They have experience. Over that period they've developed their own play style which is good enough to stack fish. But they still make tons of mistakes and aren't good enough to adjust to better players.

----

That's pretty interesting mpethy.

I agree with 'aggro fish' being better than meh regulars in some spots. But in live poker, at least in my player pool Most of them are loose passive.

But that doesn't even matter imo. If someone is really good at poker, then should know how to exploit loose passives, loose aggros, whales, regs, pros etc. whatever labels someone might use.

From an EV standpoint, playing vs a bunch of fish and whales should yield a higher EV for the fact that they make more mistakes, for more money than a reg, if they know how to correctly exploit each category of player.

---

I'm guilty of playing in all reg line ups. I think I'm the best player at every single live poker table I sit at. Whatever label they have doesn't matter because i can make money from every single one of them.

But recently I've been asking myself "how can I make the most amount of money, for the least amount of work, for minimum stress?"

And that means table selecting more. Selecting to tables with a higher EV.
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Old 09-21-2015, 01:58 PM   #10673
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

At a reg infested table last night plus one easy, obvious ATM . After ATM felted for 2nd time in short order, he said he'd be back. As the 10 minute limit approached, multiple regs start hassling the dealer to open the seat so waiting reg can sit.

Might be a reg definition in there somewhere.
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Old 09-21-2015, 01:59 PM   #10674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siculamente View Post
I think we should all come to an agreement for the definition of "live reg" there seems to be some confusion about what it means exactly.
Ok...here is what you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siculamente View Post
Lot of regs just don't care. They have jobs / disposable income so it's not a big deal.
----------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siculamente View Post
Live reg could mean a fish that plays everyday to a "pro".
So maybe fish sees other fish as regs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siculamente View Post
A live regular just means a player has played poker for a long time. They have experience. Over that period they've developed their own play style which is good enough to stack fish. But they still make tons of mistakes and aren't good enough to adjust to better players.
They are so fixated on their own style that their hands are faced up to someone who's better, and hence it's profitable to play against them, DUCY?

Which is more profitable, someone who's extremely predictable or unknown player who doesn't know much of what's going on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siculamente View Post
From an EV standpoint, playing vs a bunch of fish and whales should yield a higher EV for the fact that they make more mistakes, for more money than a reg, if they know how to correctly exploit each category of player.
LOL with your caveat to finish your sentence, and yet you failed to see that you're essentially agreeing to the argument that playing against someone you know is better than someone you don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siculamente View Post
But recently I've been asking myself "how can I make the most amount of money, for the least amount of work, for minimum stress?"
LOL, reminds me of what venice posted recently in beginner's forums.

Yep, we all want to make more while doing less, but it just doesn't work that way, DUCY?
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Old 09-21-2015, 02:13 PM   #10675
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Some more thoughts on the reg vs. fish (non reg) debate. My hourly is higher on Mon, Wed, and Thursday than it is on Friday and Saturday (on around 2.5k combined hours). I think a lot of this is based on what we see here on 2+2. There are a lot of non-regs that because of a job only head out on the weekend. Because they are not known or you only see them once in a while you may think they are not good when in fact they are crushers. A lot of the people that are there everyday are degenerates. They may not lose everyday, and they may have learned to limit their losses, but they do lose pretty consistently.

My biggest single session wins have been on the Friday's and Saturdays where you run into the whale drinking and throwing a party. Everyone would rather play at that table. It's just that when you see a table of mostly unknowns the table may not be good. When you walk in on a Wednesday night and see 6 players that you know and 5 of them lose and the one winning player peddles the nuts, you are going to have a nice hourly EV in that game.
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