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Old 09-18-2015, 12:42 PM   #10626
Richard Parker
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by t_roy View Post
You mean they make mistakes in their schedule and the variance they are taking on or something more tthan that?
Think about your own regular 9 to 5 job.

Would you trade it for 3pm to 11pm and weekends from 5pm to 1am for 20% premium?

Why? (don't have to share it, because answer only applies to yourself).
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Old 09-18-2015, 12:49 PM   #10627
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
Think about your own regular 9 to 5 job.

Would you trade it for 3pm to 11pm and weekends from 5pm to 1am for 20% premium?

Why? (don't have to share it, because answer only applies to yourself).
Yea, I guess that is the right question to ask. I assume most "pros" find that they have to play all of the prime hours just to get by.

That brings up another question I have been considering. How much do you think a top 2/5 player's winrate changes from say midday Wednesday to midnight on Friday night? Assuming a busy room like Maryland Live. 20% seems low to me but I don't have enough data during the week to know personally.

Last edited by t_roy; 09-18-2015 at 01:05 PM. Reason: punctuation fish
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Old 09-18-2015, 12:59 PM   #10628
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That also depends.

You can be a crusher on weekends and get destroyed on weekdays.

Most people become winners by beating rec fish on weekends, but those fish don't come around often during weekdays.

I am sure that a weekday winner can easily crush weekend games for higher WR, but not the same the other way around...though how much it dips, it's hard to say.
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Old 09-18-2015, 01:03 PM   #10629
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

And gl on the day of the week sample size problem.
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Old 09-18-2015, 01:22 PM   #10630
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie View Post
How much of this in your opinion is inertia and how much is an ego thing? Like, "I want to play vs. the best" kind of thing?

Either way, seems ridiculous if your #1 priority as a pro is to make the most you can per hour.

I think most of it is inertia. Some dudes just roll in and never table change. That being said I am willing to wager that there is also some ego involved.

During slow times I have rolled in...looked around and gone home. This has happened a handful of times in my past many thousand hours in the casino. But when I looked at the line up of the few games being played I decided it was not worth playing. I am quite sure I am one of very few who is willing to do that
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Old 09-18-2015, 04:42 PM   #10631
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Was just reading the intro, so just going to post a goal for October.

Will finally be settling down and want to play poker consistently. I've been traveling all over the country and playing randomly at various casinos to satisfy the itch and make some money money.
So first month of poker goals:

1: 160 hours @ 1/3

2: Come out Positive
Would love to post an estimate, but all my data so far is based upon a small sample size,
and I'll get flamed hardcore. So for now, lets just win

3: I recall 9 times I made arrogant/tilty plays to lose my stack, so lets reduce that number
proportional to hours - 1. Make it only 3 times for October.

4: Get up when the table is dead or I've lost focus

5: Stick to my game... I'm not that good yet.
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Old 09-18-2015, 05:17 PM   #10632
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Dopedupwalrus View Post
Was just reading the intro, so just going to post a goal for October.

Will finally be settling down and want to play poker consistently. I've been traveling all over the country and playing randomly at various casinos to satisfy the itch and make some money money.
So first month of poker goals:

1: 160 hours @ 1/3

2: Come out Positive
Would love to post an estimate, but all my data so far is based upon a small sample size,
and I'll get flamed hardcore. So for now, lets just win

3: I recall 9 times I made arrogant/tilty plays to lose my stack, so lets reduce that number
proportional to hours - 1. Make it only 3 times for October.

4: Get up when the table is dead or I've lost focus

5: Stick to my game... I'm not that good yet.
Any thoughts to tracking hands like the COTM sticky up top? Might be an interesting way to track your improvement...

Ggoodluck!G
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Old 09-18-2015, 07:25 PM   #10633
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
I feel the same way about my game, and I have seen that all the competent players use Poker Journal, so I would assume that they're not keep coming back if they're getting crushed...

It's amazing that how bad some of these players must be getting crushed and not even know it...
Hey I just had 3 big sessions in a row, I should start keeping track of my winnings. Gonna put those ones in manually of course.

That session didn't count, I got sucked out in a huge pot

That session didn't count, I made a really spewy call and I'm not going to do that again

That session didn't count, he should have folded to my bluff there, I'm obviously representing the nuts

Wow I'm a 20bb/hr winner in this game. I am poker Jesus.
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Old 09-18-2015, 07:27 PM   #10634
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Hey I just had 3 big sessions in a row, I should start keeping track of my winnings. Gonna put those ones in manually of course.

That session didn't count, I got sucked out in a huge pot

That session didn't count, I made a really spewy call and I'm not going to do that again

That session didn't count, he should have folded to my bluff there, I'm obviously representing the nuts

Wow I'm a 20bb/hr winner in this game. I am poker Jesus.
Reminds me of my golf handicap
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Old 09-18-2015, 07:42 PM   #10635
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Poker Heyzeus.
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Old 09-18-2015, 08:14 PM   #10636
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie View Post
How much of this in your opinion is inertia and how much is an ego thing? Like, "I want to play vs. the best" kind of thing?

Either way, seems ridiculous if your #1 priority as a pro is to make the most you can per hour.
Quote:
Originally Posted by squid face View Post
I think most of it is inertia. Some dudes just roll in and never table change. That being said I am willing to wager that there is also some ego involved.

During slow times I have rolled in...looked around and gone home. This has happened a handful of times in my past many thousand hours in the casino. But when I looked at the line up of the few games being played I decided it was not worth playing. I am quite sure I am one of very few who is willing to do that
Yeah, I really think that part of the reason they don't table change away from the other pro regs is because if they did, the other regs would (ridiculously) view it as a "I can't beat these guys" move rather than what it is--"I can beat those other guys for more."

I'm talking about a group of 4 or 5 guys that I've known casually for 3 or 4 years now. I'm confident that their ego is involved in their decision to not table change away from each other, because I see their egos affecting all of their other poker decisions, too.

For that matter, until recently, ego was affecting my decisions. I never used to table change, simply because I considered any table I sat at beatable. Only recently have I started table changing looking for the most beatable table.

I can't say that it has made a huge difference in my WR, because I was right that I can beat any table, but at least now I know I am doing everything I can to maximize my WR, and I do think it has helped some.

But the point is "I can beat any table" is an ego statement, even if it is completely true. The thinking poker pro statement is "I can beat that table over there for the most money." When those guys are doing what I used to do, sitting and fighting a table of decent players when there is a softer table available, they are saying "I can beat any table."
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Old 09-19-2015, 01:45 AM   #10637
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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#1 priority is to make money, not the most you can
Lol what? Your goal as a pro should be to make the highest EV plays 100% of the time when you're playing so you do maximise the money you do make.
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Old 09-19-2015, 02:00 AM   #10638
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I think maybe what RP was trying to say was that in some cases attempting to make the most money possible can actually end up pretty bad by way of burnout,risk of ruin, missed opportunities outside of poker.

But I could be wrong.
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Old 09-19-2015, 02:08 AM   #10639
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Pretty much it. He missed the context.
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Old 09-19-2015, 02:08 AM   #10640
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I think maybe what RP was trying to say was that in some cases attempting to make the most money possible can actually end up pretty bad by way of burnout,risk of ruin, missed opportunities outside of poker.

But I could be wrong.
Oh yeah. Well obv spending 80 hours a week in the casino is bad.
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Old 09-19-2015, 02:10 AM   #10641
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I was watching a Tim Ferris interview in where he said something along the lines of "Sometimes business owners brute force their way into making an extra few K a month but end up crippling themselves from making even more in the future."
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Old 09-19-2015, 02:36 AM   #10642
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

On why people don't table change, y'all missed one other type of "ego" reason. Competitive rec players aren't staying at hard table because of inertia or because they don't want to admit defeat, but because they actually relish the challenge. They want to test themselves and try to beat good players, not just choose the table with the highest hourly EV.

I actually have the most fun at tough tables, and I love pulling out plays that would be spew against fish.
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Old 09-19-2015, 03:05 AM   #10643
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Part of my strategy is making people want to beat me to teach me a lesson.
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Old 09-19-2015, 05:05 AM   #10644
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

You've changed in recent weeks Ricardo.

A few weeks ago you were saying that you were popular at the table and all the regs think you're a great guy and that this is good for the game and your profits. More recently you've been saying that you're a dick on purpose and that this makes it more profitable

Are there two of you?
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Old 09-19-2015, 05:34 AM   #10645
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by de4df1sh View Post
I was watching a Tim Ferris interview in where he said something along the lines of "Sometimes business owners brute force their way into making an extra few K a month but end up crippling themselves from making even more in the future."
In his book treat your poker like a business, leatherass says #1 priority of a poker pro is to stay in business
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Old 09-19-2015, 05:34 AM   #10646
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sometimes that conflicts with playing in biggest games/trying to make the most money possible
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Old 09-19-2015, 05:40 AM   #10647
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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sometimes that conflicts with playing in biggest games/trying to make the most money possible
those two things aren't always the same. for most people they're exclusive.

anyway I think it's important as a poker player to be happy and giving up some short term EV to be happier is profitable in the long run. We know late nights on weekends are generally the best time to play for instance but if forcing yourself to play those hours every week would burn you out or conflict with other parts of your life it's not worth it. We know how little money comes out of poker and you're naive if you think you can just sit down feeling like crap and put in hours and have people give you money (or at least anywhere near as much money as you could work for in good spirits and clear mind)

but there's a balance and "pros" who spend the majority of their hours playing with their friends who are all decent players so they can have fun chopping up cheeseburger money is shortsighted and dumb.

Last edited by DK Barrel; 09-19-2015 at 05:48 AM.
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Old 09-19-2015, 12:22 PM   #10648
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Don't see any argument to convince why playing regs is bad, especially when these regs "have disposable income and don't care about losing..."



Ok...so the big winner should stand up and say "no man, you guys are wrong, I am destroying you guys because I know you better than yourself!"



Ok...so regs have different reasons to play than pros and therefore it's bad idea for pros to play regs?
Youre intentionally trolling.

Obviously playing in all reg games is bad because a pro can table select to a different table for a higher hourly.

As for the crusher in all reg games comment:

As been said itt, regs don't crush for lots of money. Only a very small percentage do, and again, those crushers would be making even more table selecting to a softer game.
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Old 09-19-2015, 12:28 PM   #10649
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Youre intentionally trolling.
Because anyone who disagree with you is trolling?

You offered zero sensible argument...

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Originally Posted by Siculamente View Post
Obviously playing in all reg games is bad because a pro can table select to a different table for a higher hourly.
If it's so obvious, explain it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siculamente View Post
As for the crusher in all reg games comment:

As been said itt, regs don't crush for lots of money. Only a very small percentage do, and again, those crushers would be making even more table selecting to a softer game.
You said it yourself:

-Regs have job and don't care about losing.

-Unknown is...unknown.

So how is playing with unknown more profitable than playing with regs that you know are losing?
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Old 09-19-2015, 01:48 PM   #10650
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Because anyone who disagree with you is trolling?

You offered zero sensible argument...



If it's so obvious, explain it.



You said it yourself:

-Regs have job and don't care about losing.

-Unknown is...unknown.

So how is playing with unknown more profitable than playing with regs that you know are losing?
Because you're contradicting yourself itt. I could quote all your recent posts to prove I'm right but I'm not that bored.

I said regs don't care about playing in suboptimal games.

I can't believe you're trying to argue a table full of regs is a better game than a table of unknowns. Maybe it's just your player pool?
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