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Old 08-28-2015, 12:05 PM   #10151
cAmmAndo
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*** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
Skill gap between 1/2 and 2/5 is minimal.

If you game select well. If not you will end up in games with little or no edge when moving up. And the swings are significantly bigger.

The problem I see more than any other is not players remaining overly flexible between stakes but the opposite.... players who move up stakes as a shot take or whatever then Maybe after running decent they experience some swings and either their ego or self dellusions prevent them from playing in their former game.

If only marginally rolled they go broke. The benefits of being over rolled for a game (even 1/2) cannot be overstated IMO. It's just so much easier to play correctly in all spots when you have way more than adequate cash and chips in your pocket or your home. A shot take or transition that would compromise our ability to remain over rolled at the lower stake is a significant risk.... Risk of semi-ruin I'll call it.
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Old 08-28-2015, 12:25 PM   #10152
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I've had some private convos with Cam about this but my general take has been:

- I've noticed a significant skill gap between 1/2 and 2/5 at my local room over the 80 hours I logged. 33% of the sessions, players were on par with 1/2 skill level. 67% of the sessions, players were noticeably better. I never felt outmatched, but I also didn't feel like the big fish (ha) in a small pond like I do at just about every single 1/2 table I sit down at.

At 1/2, I feel like I am hitting the ATM every time I go play. People are so transparent that I can't remember the last "tricky" spot I got myself stuck in. Things that worked beautifully at 1/2 were ineffective at 2/5.

Villains played back harder to standard c-bets. Now a lot of my game involves showing down the goods early on, building up a little stack, and then using my image and stack size to get even more aggressive and win pots without having a hand. Now maybe it was just bad luck or variance or whatnot, but I felt like I never went on a "roll" in any of my sessions. Every pot was fighting tooth and nail to win and I probably failed to ease up off the aggressive play style I like to play without having enough fuel in my "image tank" to support it.

So my next shot will be figuring out if the players really are better, if my instincts no longer work at 2/5, etc. or if I just ran into a sour patch in my first go round.
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Old 08-28-2015, 03:03 PM   #10153
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Guys got a post reported, so read through the last few days of this thread, and there's a bit too much chippyness going on ITT. Keep it civil and constructive please.

ELE.

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Did you stack Garick though?
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Nope. Never got in a real hand with him. Prob would've owned me.
Meh, never got in a real hand with me because I'd pegged you as good enough to have a tighter range in EP, so I folded my AT-AQo type hands when you were the opener, that I never would have folded against most of those droolers' EP ranges.

FWIW, my results at that room are only a few $/hr better than yours. Solid results.

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In rooms where I felt that wasn't the case, I don't have the sample size to confidently argue the point.
Depends on the room in my experience. In most "mature" poker markets, I agree. In the midwest, there is a significant difference at most rooms. And in Vegas, you start to find pros/sem-pros at 2/5, where they are vanishingly rare at 1/2.
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Old 08-28-2015, 04:44 PM   #10154
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Most likely those 2/5 games are quite soft but you just aren't used to the stylistic differences between 2/5 and 1/2. That's even more reason you should be topping off to 200bbs.

You will likely need to make adjustments and improvements to destroy 2/5. I wouldn't go in with the expectation that you are just going to crush it right off the bat.
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Old 08-28-2015, 05:21 PM   #10155
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Originally Posted by NeverLosesAtPoker View Post
Most likely those 2/5 games are quite soft but you just aren't used to the stylistic differences between 2/5 and 1/2. That's even more reason you should be topping off to 200bbs.

You will likely need to make adjustments and improvements to destroy 2/5. I wouldn't go in with the expectation that you are just going to crush it right off the bat.
I don't think we're too far from agreement. In some rooms, 1-2 seems to be filled with terrible passive players mystified by the most basic of moves, while 2-5 has a mix of bad aggressive players and bad - decent regs. How one fares would depend on the mix and how well they deal with the significant difference in aggression . Ymmv
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Old 08-28-2015, 09:56 PM   #10156
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In smaller LLSNL games, almost all players will live and die by some basic rules that they always abide, because quite frankly, most of them are simply not capable of thinking too deep.

As stake goes up, players become less restricted by their own rules and in turn become less predictable by lower skilled players.
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Old 08-29-2015, 12:13 AM   #10157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
I've had some private convos with Cam about this but my general take has been:

- I've noticed a significant skill gap between 1/2 and 2/5 at my local room over the 80 hours I logged. 33% of the sessions, players were on par with 1/2 skill level. 67% of the sessions, players were noticeably better. I never felt outmatched, but I also didn't feel like the big fish (ha) in a small pond like I do at just about every single 1/2 table I sit down at.

At 1/2, I feel like I am hitting the ATM every time I go play. People are so transparent that I can't remember the last "tricky" spot I got myself stuck in. Things that worked beautifully at 1/2 were ineffective at 2/5.

Villains played back harder to standard c-bets. Now a lot of my game involves showing down the goods early on, building up a little stack, and then using my image and stack size to get even more aggressive and win pots without having a hand. Now maybe it was just bad luck or variance or whatnot, but I felt like I never went on a "roll" in any of my sessions. Every pot was fighting tooth and nail to win and I probably failed to ease up off the aggressive play style I like to play without having enough fuel in my "image tank" to support it.
.
You must play in the mirror universe to my room. In the year of Hell Yeah I win by cbetting at 3/5 and panic even with TP2K if the regs call. I almost never try to make 1/2 players fold.
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Old 08-29-2015, 02:45 PM   #10158
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8/28: +600 (6.5 hours, $92/hr)

1885/3000 (63% there)

Go out drinking with my buddies tonight or grind out another session for this challenge?
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Old 08-29-2015, 02:52 PM   #10159
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Ahahhaha flip a coin. Nice job. Would be great if you hit 3k considering all the smack talk in here.
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Old 08-29-2015, 04:01 PM   #10160
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Go out. You already have something to be proud of, and if you push it and don't get there because you're trying too hard, it will have an annoying psychological effect.
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Old 08-29-2015, 05:10 PM   #10161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
8/28: +600 (6.5 hours, $92/hr)

1885/3000 (63% there)

Go out drinking with my buddies tonight or grind out another session for this challenge?
Your 1-2 success since Feb is remarkable, kudos
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Old 08-29-2015, 09:55 PM   #10162
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I'm back on the horse guys. I played 4 2/5 sessions in the last week. I have no idea what my bankroll is or if I'm ready but I bought in 1k at the tampa hard rock 2/5 because yolo. I think I'm prob rolled for that though.


I don't really track my money or wins and loses I just focusing on having an edge in the hand and playing close to my A game but I think I'm up 1100 in 4 sessions.

I got in 4 buy ins in my second session and bought in for the 4th one about 28 minutes before the dog track closed and lost only 80 bucks.
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Old 08-29-2015, 10:17 PM   #10163
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I'm back on the horse guys. I played 4 2/5 sessions in the last week. I have no idea what my bankroll is or if I'm ready but I bought in 1k at the tampa hard rock 2/5 because yolo. I think I'm prob rolled for that though.


I don't really track my money or wins and loses I just focusing on having an edge in the hand and playing close to my A game but I think I'm up 1100 in 4 sessions.

I got in 4 buy ins in my second session and bought in for the 4th one about 28 minutes before the dog track closed and lost only 80 bucks.
Def don't keep track, too much work and not important
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Old 08-29-2015, 11:08 PM   #10164
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well I've done it in the past it isn't really a matter of effort it's just so hard to get a true image of your edge when the game state changes so often and I evolve as a player as well. I feel like stat tracking just gives you something negative to focus on. I know im a 40$/h winner in a 100bb 2/5 game and I know I have enough money so the rest is just unneeded distraction. I'm almost at the point where I don't even know mid session if I'm winning or losing or how much I'm winning at the end.
I've only tracked my stats twice once when I had a volumn prop I lost and the other time I wanted to buy an apple watch so I tried to tell myself I could have one at 700 hours
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Old 08-29-2015, 11:34 PM   #10165
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Ya tracking is kind of a hassle - and if you know you are winning 40 per hr - whats the point?
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Old 08-29-2015, 11:47 PM   #10166
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SIAP, I track my results once a year, midnight-8:00am April 15th.
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Old 08-29-2015, 11:50 PM   #10167
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I also don't track.

I know I am a crusher winning at over $100/hr.

Although I don't have the actual cash - tooth fairies must have been jacking from me to give to local kids.
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Old 08-30-2015, 01:50 AM   #10168
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Did someone say tracking? Brothers, this is a great passion of mine...deers, rabbits, squirrels. My great great great great grandfather was 1/6 Sioux Indian.
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Old 08-30-2015, 07:25 AM   #10169
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Tracking

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Old 08-30-2015, 01:46 PM   #10170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
8/28: +600 (6.5 hours, $92/hr)



1885/3000 (63% there)



Go out drinking with my buddies tonight or grind out another session for this challenge?

In before Johnny Buzz reports both drinking and blasting 1k at 1/2
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Old 08-31-2015, 03:29 AM   #10171
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I started recording my sessions since March this year, and it has been fun doing so:
- last 137 hours
- $35/hr
- about 25 sessions or so

Anyway, I've decided to not player poker again. Reasons? Psychological.

My most memorable times at the tables were not days where I made money, but rather the jokes, banter and laughter I shared with the larger than life characters that I was lucky enough to be sat with; whether they be young or old, novices or professionals. Because I've realized, that at the end of the day, I'm a recreational player, I'm here to have fun.

I would have loved to have played more poker but unfortunately, I don't feel that it is worth my free time to make spare time for poker. As a full time worker, I only make time, if at all, on Saturdays to play poker, but I feel that it is more valuable to spend this time with friends and family.

I enjoy playing 5/5 games here in Sydney but there is simply not enough demand for these games. And the last thing I want is to drive 30mins to the casino, only to be sat with people who buy in for the minimum, or $100, at 2/3 games and have to listen to them talking strat.
Even if I was offered $50/hr to sit through that sh*t for 6 hrs a week, I would still not do it.

Anyway, I wanted to write this up as a thank you to this forum for all the help that I've received from you guys. You guys are so generous with your time and feedback and there have been times when I've thought to myself, "Dude, WTF do you gain by being so awesome?"

With regard to the little contribution that I made to other people's threads. Well, I'm just not good enough.

Anyway, I thought I'd end by sharing the biggest pot that I've played. This was a 5/10/20 hand played in Melbourne back in May, where I was sat on a table which included (I later learnt) young Australian professional tournament poker players. The game was 10 handed, five players were fish (including me, although I didn't believe it at the time) and the other five were solid mid 20s regs who knew each other well.

5/10/20
Friday 12.00am - Melbourne

V (UTG, $2500) mid 20s Asian male currently down $6,000.
Hero (BB, $2000) mid 20s fish

V raises to $60, three callers, Hero 3-bets to $310 with QQ, only V calls.

Flop ($800) J63

Hero bets $525
Villain insta-announces all in for $2,190
Hero tanks for two minutes before calling.
Villain asks, "How many times do you want to run it?"
Hero: "Once"

Turn (~$4,000) 10

River (~$4,000) Q

Hero shows pocket queens for set on the river.
Villain mucks
Small blind says "Wow, I folded KQ"
Villain tells his mate he had KK.
Table starts discussing the hand amongst themselves and about the one outer while I'm just glad I broke even for the day.

***

Anyway, hope you enjoyed that, thanks again to 2p2 and this forum and of course.. good luck at the tables.

danhendo888
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Old 08-31-2015, 03:53 AM   #10172
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No reason to quit completely Dan.

Maybe after a break, you'll join the once a week club like a few of us others. By limiting your play you may retain a sustainable passion for it
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Old 08-31-2015, 09:12 AM   #10173
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RIP danhendo888
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Old 08-31-2015, 09:13 AM   #10174
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Good luck and best wishes Dan. I hope you shrugged and said "I put you on 54".
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Old 08-31-2015, 09:49 AM   #10175
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I it is more valuable to spend this time with friends and family.
What's your hourly with them?
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