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Old 08-25-2015, 02:22 PM   #10076
BirdsallSa
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I have been audited by the IRS. The very first thing they do is look at your bank statements and they want proof of where every deposit came from. Their number one priority is finding unreported income. If you put money in a bank account it is permanently there for audit.

I quit playing the cash hiding game and started reporting 100% of poker income a couple of years ago. It feels good to be honest and it has solidified how I feel about poker as a second job. I believe being professional in all aspects of poker leads to better success.
IRS in the thread confirmed
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Old 08-25-2015, 03:04 PM   #10077
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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surprising that the guy was honest enough to track these losing results over 1K hands. I feel like most losing players would either quit or delude themselves into thinking they aren't losing as much as they are.
One time a 5/T player was telling me how he tracks his results in a spreadsheet. He told me he was losing $20k a month. However, he chalked it all up to run bad lol.

I know another player that lost $18k in his first month of 2/5 and is now a fulltime player. He's not a very strong player but he's good enough to be a marginal winner in a soft 2/5 game...and obviously much improved over what he was when he first started.
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:39 PM   #10078
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

For what it's worth, I don't think the type of player who tracks results falls into this category usually, but I personally don't look disparagingly on those losing 23.50/hour doing something they presumably enjoy - it can be purely entertainment budget.

Sounds unusual, but I don't think I would call them a super degen or anything. Pretty sure the biggest losers lose more than the biggest winners win.
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:13 PM   #10079
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by scourrge View Post
For what it's worth, I don't think the type of player who tracks results falls into this category usually, but I personally don't look disparagingly on those losing 23.50/hour doing something they presumably enjoy - it can be purely entertainment budget.

Sounds unusual, but I don't think I would call them a super degen or anything. Pretty sure the biggest losers lose more than the biggest winners win.

To be clear I make no value judgement on the guy.

I'm fairly certain most who would watch him on any given night would assume he was a small loser in the game.
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:46 PM   #10080
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IRS in the thread confirmed

Meh.... Prob better off over at PG&C
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Old 08-25-2015, 06:11 PM   #10081
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I think you're prob right for a lot of these guys, especially the "retired with money" types. I shouldn't have been so quick to judge.

I see a lot of guys who are constantly losing, look miserable doing it, and don't seem all that well off. It's pretty gross.
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Old 08-25-2015, 06:15 PM   #10082
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Didn't mean to be on a high horse about it, just my two cents. I feel pretty fortunate just to not pay money for something I love to do, since most people with hobbies don't even have a shot at that.

The point about a lot of folks looking miserable is totally fair - but same could be said for a lot of medium, and even biggish winners I think. Poker is a strange game indeed.
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Old 08-25-2015, 07:56 PM   #10083
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Hi pm
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Old 08-25-2015, 10:26 PM   #10084
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

*Disclaimer, yes this is an LOL sample size.

Since I helped muck up this thread a bit I might as well post some results.

Since picking up the game again on a regular part-time basis I've been running pretty good.

Ol' Nicname is up $4,788 over 151 hours 20 minutes since kicking off play during a wedding (not mine) trip to Vegas at the beginning of April. 128 of those hours have been spent playing 1/3 at my "local" casino, where I once had the pleasure of sitting at the same table as the one and only Garick. The other 20+ hours include a few pit stops at some lower level Vegas card rooms for 1/2 and 1/3, as well as 2 hours losing $680 at 2/5 on my way to a vacation in Colorado.

I should note I don't keep track of tips or how much booze/food I buy out of my stack, but that probably evens out as I also don't keep track of my gas money (trip costs around $5 there and back, plus $1 in turnpike fees. It's probably a wash.

Some Stats (overall)
Hours 151 h 20 m
Profit $4,788
Hourly $31.92
Hourly in BB 11.3
Sessions 33: Wins 21 Losses 12
Avg session 4 h 35 m
Std Dev per hour = $235.52
Std Dev per session = $519.15

I have had one losing month (July). I didn't notice until I checked, but I never played a single weekend session at my home casino. Rather, I played 4 times on Thursdays. It's a tougher game that night, and I was playing on little sleep much of the time. I didn't run bad I don't think. I did play bad. This also included the 2/5 2 hour burner I took on the way to Colorado.

Home casino stats:
Hours 128 h 54 m
Profit = $5385
Hourly = $42.21
Hourly in BB = 14.1 BB
Sessions 24: 17 wins, 7 losses
Avg session = 5 h 22 m
Std Dev per hour = $239.17
Std Dev per session = $558.3

Obv. Fridays and especially Saturdays are my most successful. Going a month between a weekend session wasn't good for me. I do, however, believe I can be a consistent winner during weekday games.
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Old 08-25-2015, 10:31 PM   #10085
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Did you stack Garick though?
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Old 08-25-2015, 10:52 PM   #10086
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Nope. Never got in a real hand with him. Prob would've owned me.
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Old 08-25-2015, 10:59 PM   #10087
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Anyone that could afford losing a ton in poker is a brag.

I am a confirmed losing player.
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Old 08-26-2015, 05:02 AM   #10088
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Overall stats of 2/5, $500 max 5+1 game over 3 months

Sessions: 79
Profit: $20,377
Hourly: $35.21/hr
Standard Deviation: 566.9/h
Total time: 574.9 hrs
Avg Session: 7.28 hrs

This is pretty good imo, I've certainly seen better and near the start I stayed in the $50-60/hr range until I hit some downswings. What has me confused though, is that I broke it down into $ won by days of the week and got these interesting results:



Obviously the weekends are the best time to play, but I'm not sure why I'm breakeven Monday vs winning Tuesday to getting absolutely crushed Wednesday/Thursday. Intuitively, I would've thought that my weekends weren't quite as good, and my weekdays were in the $20/hr range. Anyone have similar results when breaking down by days of the week?
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Old 08-26-2015, 05:21 AM   #10089
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuppa View Post
Overall stats of 2/5, $500 max 5+1 game over 3 months

Sessions: 79
Profit: $20,377
Hourly: $35.21/hr
Standard Deviation: 566.9/h
Total time: 574.9 hrs
Avg Session: 7.28 hrs

This is pretty good imo, I've certainly seen better and near the start I stayed in the $50-60/hr range until I hit some downswings. What has me confused though, is that I broke it down into $ won by days of the week and got these interesting results:



Obviously the weekends are the best time to play, but I'm not sure why I'm breakeven Monday vs winning Tuesday to getting absolutely crushed Wednesday/Thursday. Intuitively, I would've thought that my weekends weren't quite as good, and my weekdays were in the $20/hr range. Anyone have similar results when breaking down by days of the week?
I had/have about an 800 sample in a 1/2 game where I was destroying Friday night at like 50/hr and conversely getting killed Saturday and losing like -8/hr or something.

I think you have to just chalk it up to variance as were dealing with two digit hour sample sizes
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Old 08-26-2015, 07:42 AM   #10090
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuppa View Post
Obviously the weekends are the best time to play, but I'm not sure why I'm breakeven Monday vs winning Tuesday to getting absolutely crushed Wednesday/Thursday. Intuitively, I would've thought that my weekends weren't quite as good, and my weekdays were in the $20/hr range. Anyone have similar results when breaking down by days of the week?
because you're only looking at 50-60 hours. 1 good/bad session will skew your entire day. hypothetically, if the next monday you play, you win/lose 1 BI over say 3.2 hours, your winrate is either roughly $12 or -$4, so it either triples the current value or goes completely negative.

you probably wont get any relevant daily statistics until you are in the 2500-3000 hour range overall and even then your mondays/tuesdays might not be significant, since they are the days you obv play the least on. based on the ratio you play now mondays are 9.9% and tuesdays are 11.5% of your total play, if that trend continues, it would take you over 5000 hours to get to a 500 hour sample. in other words, its not that important and i wouldnt worry about it for a little while.

nice stats though
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Old 08-26-2015, 08:25 AM   #10091
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

100+/hr on fri+Sat and <5/hr Sun-Thu might make me go hmmm. Lol small sample even grouped though.

Stddev high for 2-5 500, you lag or extra aggro deep?
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:15 AM   #10092
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by TTBH240 View Post
Thanks progress, bip. Appreciate the kudos.
Congrats on digging yourself out of the hole by your booty, or something like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suited fours View Post
100+/hr on fri+Sat and <5/hr Sun-Thu might make me go hmmm. Lol small sample even grouped though.

Stddev high for 2-5 500, you lag or extra aggro deep?
Some days lend themselves to high variance play.
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:17 AM   #10093
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Nice stats Chuppa. Next step is figuring out the 'decimal' functionality in Excel
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Old 08-26-2015, 11:00 AM   #10094
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

+1 to all the "small sample size, absolutely nothing can be concluded" responses regarding the day-of-the-week results

Here are mine thru 2377 hours ($25.13/hr) of 1/3 (and I still think the breakdown is meaningless):

Mon 321 hours $16.12/hr
Tue 245 hours $37.32/hr
Wed 191 hours $10.24/hr
Thu 149 hours $43.93/hr
Fri 193 hours $24.61/hr
Sat 524 hours $25.48/hr
Sun 753 hours $24.96/hr


GcluelessstatsnoobG
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Old 08-26-2015, 11:42 AM   #10095
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your sat/sun stats are getting to the point that there wont be much movement on them.

no wonder you don't play much on wednesday. woof. only $10/hr. i wouldnt even bother getting out of bed...
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Old 08-26-2015, 11:55 AM   #10096
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Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot View Post
no wonder you don't play much on wednesday. woof. only $10/hr. i wouldnt even bother getting out of bed...
Sad fact: I would snap accept running at $10/hr this year.

G$6.13/hrover333hoursin2015,truestoryG
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Old 08-26-2015, 12:13 PM   #10097
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
Sad fact: I would snap accept running at $10/hr this year.

G$6.13/hrover333hoursin2015,truestoryG
Why do you think this is Gobbers?
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Old 08-26-2015, 12:25 PM   #10098
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Originally Posted by de4df1sh View Post
Why do you think this is Gobbers?
Been giving a lot of thought to it and have some ideas, but also still not convinced it's not just a short term period of bad variance as well. Might address it at 3000 hours especially if the trend continues over the next 600 hours.

GrockingtheOMCwinrateG
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Old 08-26-2015, 12:53 PM   #10099
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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GrockingtheOMCwinrateG
lolz
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Old 08-26-2015, 07:43 PM   #10100
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
+1 to all the "small sample size, absolutely nothing can be concluded" responses regarding the day-of-the-week results

Here are mine thru 2377 hours ($25.13/hr) of 1/3 (and I still think the breakdown is meaningless):

Mon 321 hours $16.12/hr
Tue 245 hours $37.32/hr
Wed 191 hours $10.24/hr
Thu 149 hours $43.93/hr
Fri 193 hours $24.61/hr
Sat 524 hours $25.48/hr
Sun 753 hours $24.96/hr


GcluelessstatsnoobG
Solid stats man.
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