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Old 08-12-2015, 06:03 AM   #9951
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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At what point does the rake make a game unbeatable?
When it's higher than your win rate
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Old 08-12-2015, 07:14 AM   #9952
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When it's higher than your win rate
That's not true because most games will have a higher rake then most players ever will.

For example" 5$ a hand is 150/hr
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Old 08-12-2015, 08:05 AM   #9953
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That's not true because most games will have a higher rake then most players ever will.

For example" 5$ a hand is 150/hr
Nice troll
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Old 08-12-2015, 08:49 AM   #9954
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Let's assume a TAG ($14/$12) has a WR of $20/hr at $1-$3 with a $5 rake. If nothing else about his game changed except the rake was changed to $7, how much would his WR go down in the short term? (ignoring any and all theoretical effects such as player pool getting poorer due to the higher rake or people switching venues, or people adjusting ranges due to the rake) Asked another way, how many "pots>$60" per hr does this player take down?

How much does the answer change if the player is vpip/pfr $24/$20?

Serious questions. I've never analyzed this question, but I would guess somebody has decent estimates based upon data collected from live games.
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Old 08-12-2015, 08:59 AM   #9955
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Assume for the moment no change in effective stack sizes, which might be a terrible assumption.
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Old 08-12-2015, 09:07 AM   #9956
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by suited fours View Post
Let's assume a TAG ($14/$12) has a WR of $20/hr at $1-$3 with a $5 rake. If nothing else about his game changed except the rake was changed to $7, how much would his WR go down in the short term? (ignoring any and all theoretical effects such as player pool getting poorer due to the higher rake or people switching venues, or people adjusting ranges due to the rake) Asked another way, how many "pots>$60" per hr does this player take down?

How much does the answer change if the player is vpip/pfr $24/$20?

Serious questions. I've never analyzed this question, but I would guess somebody has decent estimates based upon data collected from live games.
Funny this came up as I've been listening to an old Limon podcast from last year about PokerStars' rake increase. He makes a good point where rake increases filter out the marginal regs/pros, thus making a game MORE profitable for the top of the food chain.

This is working under the assumption that recreational players won't care about rake increases and will still play the game.

There are no solid #'s to back the theory up, but it is food for thought.
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Old 08-12-2015, 09:48 AM   #9957
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Nice troll
Was not a troll.

The rake in 99% of cases makes more then a players hourly rate so I don't know what your trying to say?
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Old 08-12-2015, 10:26 AM   #9958
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Was not a troll.

The rake in 99% of cases makes more then a players hourly rate so I don't know what your trying to say?
He was being cheeky and thought it was obvious and then you were serious and he thought you knew he was being cheeky and were being serious as a level.
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Old 08-12-2015, 10:56 AM   #9959
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Was not a troll.

The rake in 99% of cases makes more then a players hourly rate so I don't know what your trying to say?
If they take $150 off the table/per hour doesn't mean they're taking $150 from each player's stack. If you never win a pot, you never pay rake. The rake will hurt players who win more pots more than players who win fewer pots. Unless you can quantify how many pots and how big you win per hour you won't be able to answer that question.
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Old 08-12-2015, 11:06 AM   #9960
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by suited fours View Post
Let's assume a TAG ($14/$12) has a WR of $20/hr at $1-$3 with a $5 rake. If nothing else about his game changed except the rake was changed to $7, how much would his WR go down in the short term? (ignoring any and all theoretical effects such as player pool getting poorer due to the higher rake or people switching venues, or people adjusting ranges due to the rake) Asked another way, how many "pots>$60" per hr does this player take down?

How much does the answer change if the player is vpip/pfr $24/$20?

Serious questions. I've never analyzed this question, but I would guess somebody has decent estimates based upon data collected from live games.
My *guess* would be two pots per hour (fair assumption?) x $2 extra = $4 per hour off the winrate at this increase, give or take.

GjustaguessG
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Old 08-12-2015, 11:11 AM   #9961
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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He was being cheeky and thought it was obvious and then you were serious and he thought you knew he was being cheeky and were being serious as a level.
I think he was going for the mythical double-check-raise-level!
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Old 08-12-2015, 11:14 AM   #9962
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by spikeraw22 View Post
If they take $150 off the table/per hour doesn't mean they're taking $150 from each player's stack. If you never win a pot, you never pay rake. The rake will hurt players who win more pots more than players who win fewer pots. Unless you can quantify how many pots and how big you win per hour you won't be able to answer that question.
Not quite true,

because the money taken out of OTHER players stacks is money that WE can no longer win either.
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Old 08-12-2015, 11:17 AM   #9963
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i suppose thats true but im not trying to get too in depth with this one.
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Old 08-12-2015, 11:30 AM   #9964
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

When you are getting trolled left and right, you should realize that your questions aren't that good.
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Old 08-12-2015, 01:24 PM   #9965
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I am happy to report that after 161 hours of 2/5 this year, I am making 38 cents per hour, which does make me a confirmed winner.

I am however preparing to send my resume to a sweatshop, so I can get a raise.
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Old 08-12-2015, 01:42 PM   #9966
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.38/hr could just be variance and you're actually a big loser.

Don't celebrate too fast.
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Old 08-12-2015, 02:02 PM   #9967
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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.38/hr could just be variance and you're actually a big loser.

Don't celebrate too fast.
Your level of misery is impressive
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Old 08-12-2015, 02:07 PM   #9968
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Right, because I care about what poker players think are sign of happiness.
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Old 08-12-2015, 02:32 PM   #9969
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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.38/hr could just be variance and you're actually a big loser.

Don't celebrate too fast.
Usually sarcasm works best when you re punching up not when punching down to a person who's already self-deprecating.

But naw, I am not worried, overall I am winning at 8.3 bb per hour.
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Old 08-12-2015, 02:37 PM   #9970
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Never quite understand why people call river then shows their loser...sympathy?
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Old 08-12-2015, 02:41 PM   #9971
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Right, because I care about what poker players think are sign of happiness.
Why are you so angry all the time? Life needs happiness and rainbows more then hatred and tornado's.
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Old 08-12-2015, 03:03 PM   #9972
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Anger takes a lot of energy and shuts down the mind, far too -EV for someone like me to be.
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Old 08-12-2015, 03:23 PM   #9973
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie View Post
Funny this came up as I've been listening to an old Limon podcast from last year about PokerStars' rake increase. He makes a good point where rake increases filter out the marginal regs/pros, thus making a game MORE profitable for the top of the food chain.

This is working under the assumption that recreational players won't care about rake increases and will still play the game.

There are no solid #'s to back the theory up, but it is food for thought.
I agree, seems like a very good point. Jacksonville FL rakes $2 if you take down the blinds preflop at 2-5 and their full $5+$2 rake hits at $40 pot. From my lol sample size of 4 long sessions there, pro/table ratio looked really low.
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Old 08-12-2015, 03:27 PM   #9974
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Win rate for last 13hrs or so of 200nl (since Aug 4th) has been $216.48/hr. Is this sustainable?
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Old 08-12-2015, 03:27 PM   #9975
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Never quite understand why people call river then shows their loser...sympathy?
Pretty much. It represents 99% of the coolers you hear/read about and they're beats that are almost always avoidable.
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