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Old 07-07-2015, 03:13 PM   #9601
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Yeah, but did Limon ever clearly state "we can make a LOT of money together" like OP did?

OP didn't say "a little money" or "not very little money". He clearly stated a LOT of money.

We're talking a LOT of money and we all have the opportunity to get in on the ground floor here!

Gwillprobablyhavetoshiftsomemoneyaround,butIthinkI canmakethiswork,withtheproperpartnersofcourseG
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Old 07-07-2015, 03:39 PM   #9602
kekeeke
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I never understood stacking for cash games.

If you are a winner it's easy to build a br. Why would you want to split your profits? In tourney it's standard because of the insane variance and buy in amount, but cash games? Rather keep my profits.
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Old 07-07-2015, 04:00 PM   #9603
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

There's times where it makes sense but it's usually something like two or three of the best regs in the biggest game that regularly runs taking equal shares and flipping to see who plays in a game that's much bigger and rarely runs but is a really good spot when it does.
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Old 07-08-2015, 02:27 AM   #9604
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

last two 1/2 sessions

session 1: 6.5 hours, -$750 (-$115/hr)
session 2: 3.5 hours, +$1000 ($285/hr)

combined: 10 hours, +$250 ($25/hr)

variance is alive and well
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Old 07-08-2015, 02:34 AM   #9605
NeverLosesAtPoker
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Stop playing 1/2
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:38 AM   #9606
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by NeverLosesAtPoker View Post
move up to where they respect your raises
fyp
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Old 07-08-2015, 11:08 AM   #9607
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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move up to where we can all stake you and make lots of money together
fyp

GdisappointmentedentertainmentdieddownsoquicklyG
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:52 PM   #9608
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Look at all these forum addicts talking trash, lol. I'll update with you guys in a month. I'm better than all of you.
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:54 PM   #9609
NeverLosesAtPoker
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

You are better than all of us but you need staking for 1/2. Hmmmmm
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:55 PM   #9610
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I prefer "junkie," thanks.
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:57 PM   #9611
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by prozach View Post
Look at all these forum addicts talking trash, lol. I'll update with you guys in a month. I'm better than all of you.
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Old 07-08-2015, 06:07 PM   #9612
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Sorry in advance if this is a bit lengthy, but I have a question about poker playing a larger financial role in my life, and I’d like feedback from anyone who has used poker as a primary means of income for a substantial period of time. (This is not an “OMG I WON $500 ON POKER STARS CAN I GOES PROZ YET?” type question, by the by). Thanks in advance for the feedback and taking the time to read this.

My current poker situation:
I’ve been playing off and on for years, but I just recently started playing seriously, taking time really to study the game, etc. (I play almost exclusively live 1/3, BI=200) I just recently passed the 300 hr mark and am averaging a little over $28 an hour. I’d say I see at least 30 hands an hour. Biggest win: +500, biggest loss: -200. I play several times a week at a casino half an hour from my house and the games are absurdly soft and easy. We only have two casinos in my entire state, so everyone congregates to the same place, and there’s always fish coming and going who can easily be taken advantage of. Most of the regulars, I think, would be really fishy in tougher games. Playing ABC poker with decent hand reading ability is enough to win here consistently. I tell you all this, because I think that these variables might make my LOL sample size more representative of my quality of play. I also have a good mathematical and strategic mind, for what it’s worth. A few examples: I taught myself to count cards, used to play chess semi-seriously, and tested out of calculus before college.

Life situation:
In the fall, I plan on going back to college full time (my school’s paid for through scholarships), and in two years I will be done and going to grad school. Due to a small part time coaching job I keep on the side and an extracurricular that pays for my school, I travel A LOT, making it very difficult for me to find a reliable, decent job that fits my schedule. No employer is going to be fine giving me off almost every Friday and Monday and allow me only to work nights. As for the jobs that would allow me to do that, well, mentally, I can’t go from studying all day to flipping burgers in a hot kitchen for minimum wage or waiting tables six nights a week. It's too stifling, and it makes me hate being alive.

So that’s where poker comes in. I’ve read quite a few threads here about bankroll management and I’m well rolled for what I play. I have 4k that I can set aside purely for poker, and have about five months of living expenses saved (that’s conservatively; if needed, I could stretch another month or two out of that).

So, all things considered, do you think it would be worth a shot to try to make poker my primary means of income? Living expenses where I’m are INSANELY cheap. If you have a job that pays $15 an hour here you’re pretty lush compared to most people under 25. If I could beat 1/3 for only 7bb/hr, for only 20 hrs a week, at the end of the month I’d actually be making more than what I make now working full time. Given my situation as described above, is this a worthwhile shot to take?

I hope that, even if you think this is an idiotic question, you can see why this is tempting. I know I don’t have the ideal amount of experience, but life requires calculated risk taking, right? I only have to do it for two years, then I’m out, and I know I have the discipline necessary to put in the hours to support myself and continuously improve my game. Compared to working a s**t job for less than 20% of what I currently make, I’d be willing to take a risk or two.

If this is the worst idea you’ve ever heard, that’s fair, but please tell me why and not just say “lol, you poor noob you’ll go broke.”

Thanks again. Good luck to everyone at the tables!
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Old 07-08-2015, 06:22 PM   #9613
Angrist
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

That's still a small sample. Even if you are good and your pool is soft.

1/2 hour drive is a hike to play a couple of hours at a session. You're spending a good chunk of time in the car, and maybe a good bit of money on gas.

Try it and see how it goes. Set a firm stoploss between your roll and your life money, and if it doesn't work out GET A JOB.
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Old 07-08-2015, 06:29 PM   #9614
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Short answer is no.

Long answer is more difficult to understand without having actually tried playing poker on an extended period of time.
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Old 07-08-2015, 06:49 PM   #9615
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Even if you were a proven winner at poker, it still might not be a good idea depending on your life leaks.
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Old 07-08-2015, 07:25 PM   #9616
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by thecaveman View Post

So, all things considered, do you think it would be worth a shot to try to make poker my primary means of income? Living expenses where I’m are INSANELY cheap. If you have a job that pays $15 an hour here you’re pretty lush compared to most people under 25. If I could beat 1/3 for only 7bb/hr, for only 20 hrs a week, at the end of the month I’d actually be making more than what I make now working full time. Given my situation as described above, is this a worthwhile shot to take?

I hope that, even if you think this is an idiotic question, you can see why this is tempting. I know I don’t have the ideal amount of experience, but life requires calculated risk taking, right? I only have to do it for two years, then I’m out, and I know I have the discipline necessary to put in the hours to support myself and continuously improve my game. Compared to working a s**t job for less than 20% of what I currently make, I’d be willing to take a risk or two.
First of all, congrats on the great start in 1/3. With that said, your sample size is not significant and your true hourly my be far great or lessor than the 28/hr.

Does your coaching or extracurricular job contribute anything to your CV/resume? Are your jobs finding the experience rewarding or meaningful? How much do you value these things?

You seem like a pretty smart guy, but it also takes discipline and mental fortitude to consistently win at poker. How would losing $800-1,000 in a day or losing 4 times in row make you feel? Will you make lose motivation to play and improve when you're on a hot streak? If you biggest win is +500 and biggest lost is -200 that means you must have stop-loss and stop-win right?

Only you can answer these questions and weigh them accordingly.

FWIW,

I started with $2,200 two years ago at 1/2 300 BI. Within 500 hours I was almost exclusively playing 2/5 600 buy-in. Now I buying in for 800 (the max) at 2/5 and taking occasional shots at 5/T.
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Old 07-08-2015, 07:43 PM   #9617
thecaveman
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Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
Long answer is more difficult to understand without having actually tried playing poker on an extended period of time.
Fair. I'd greatly appreciate the long answer, or at least a summary of it; if nothing else, just for curiosity's sake.
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:00 PM   #9618
thecaveman
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Originally Posted by BenzY View Post

Does your coaching or extracurricular job contribute anything to your CV/resume? Are your jobs finding the experience rewarding or meaningful? How much do you value these things?

You seem like a pretty smart guy, but it also takes discipline and mental fortitude to consistently win at poker. How would losing $800-1,000 in a day or losing 4 times in row make you feel? Will you make lose motivation to play and improve when you're on a hot streak? If you biggest win is +500 and biggest lost is -200 that means you must have stop-loss and stop-win right?
In this situation, I'd keep the part time coaching job. I enjoy it and it provides a little bit of money to help me with expenses, but it doesn't really fit with what I'm aiming to do any more than poker would. Currently, none of the jobs I do really 'help' my resume- I'm aiming to go into academia, so publishing credits tend to be worth more than job experience. Actually, if this situation worked out and I could support myself for two years, it could be helpful when interviewing for MFA programs because of the life experience.

As for mental fortitude, while I haven't lost 1000 in a day, I have experienced some fair downswings and flatlines, and I've lost multiple times in a row. Nothing like the monster streaks of bad variance that I know will come, but enough to make me realize I'm no poker god and that my game has had flaws I need to correct and continue to correct. I'll admit losing makes me more eager to improve my game, but even when I'm winning I don't neglect study or lessen my hours of play. The only reason I would play less during heaters is because of stop-win.

Congrats on the success for the last two years! I'd love to replicate something like that.
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:12 PM   #9619
JGP417
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by prozach View Post
Look at all these forum addicts talking trash, lol. I'll update with you guys in a month. I'm better than all of you.
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:13 PM   #9620
Angrist
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by thecaveman View Post
As for mental fortitude, while I haven't lost 1000 in a day, I have experienced some fair downswings and flatlines, and I've lost multiple times in a row. Nothing like the monster streaks of bad variance that I know will come
Just wait until you go on a 200 hour downswing.
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:24 PM   #9621
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

A 200 hour downswing probably isn't a downswing
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:33 PM   #9622
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It's only about 6000 hands.
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:35 PM   #9623
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Yeah but shouldn't an expected winrate be around 30bb/100?
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:40 PM   #9624
Angrist
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30bb/100 is 9bb/hr, or $18/hr at a $1/2 game.

That's higher than I'd call "expected" ... that's pretty crushing.

Even so, we consistently tell people that 100 hours is absolutely nothing. 200 hours isn't much better.
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:42 PM   #9625
ibelieveyouoweme$80k
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances



little uptick due to BBJ
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