13k is plenty to at least shot take a good looking 2/5

Gg congrats and good to hear. Johnny nice job. Bluffing for like 700 profit in one session dayAm wtf man that's crazy.

Yea. I can relate to johnny, I think he's comfortable crushing 1-2 and is content with the game there. Not a bankroll thing.

I have the same mental "leak". I think it's def a leak, the skill/income plateau is much higher at 2/5 but 1-2 is comfortable, fun and easy.

Is $13,000 really isn't enough for $500 2/5 games? In reality how much would you lose until you dropped down in stakes? Wouldn't that amount be your true 2/5 bankroll?

Probably depends if that bankroll is your all-I-have-to-my-name liferoll versus easily replenishable pocket change.

GplayingwithmypocketchangeG

13k is definitely enough to shot take 2/5, even as a total roll. I mean if you run well the first session or two, you may never look back. If that becomes the case, how much money are you losing now playing 1/2 or 1/3?

I guess any amount where if you lose 100bb still leaves you with a comfortable roll for your main game is enough for shot-taking imo, as long as you think you have the reasonable skills to beat the game you're shot-taking.

For me personally, it's not really about shot taking. I am fairly confident I could take shots at 2/5 and play a watered down version of my game that is considerably tighter, not chasing as small of edges, etc. and achieve a small(er) winrate compared to 1/2, but I have no desire to do that.

In my mind, I have a mental checklist of skills and competencies I want to achieve/master at 1/2 before moving up. I want the peripheral edges, non-ABC "moves," attacking weaknesses, recognizing when opponents are bet/folding, capped at one-pair, which scare cards are good to bluff, my bluffing frequency, etc. type situations I encounter at 1/2 to be so ingrained into my muscle memory that when I move up to 2/5 I have no fear and just trust my instincts and experiences when deciding to take a course of action.

I've got a few more books to read. I have lots of experimentation to try regarding lightening my 3! range to the point the table hates me (based on a BalugaWhale seminar video which is gold); and I still have some other leaks in my game I am looking to plug.

Running around $30-32/hr but I think the potential is there to cross the $40/hr barrier and maybe even $45-50/hr by cutting down on some mistakes and working on my check list. It may be a bit ambitious or unrealistic but since I'm not playing for income right now and my poker roll is separate from my life roll I don't feel the need to aggressively shot take other than for ego.

How many hours are you at to be running at that hourly? I am in that same range over 500 hours and wasn't sure if I am just crushing my 1/2 games(uncapped buyin), or I am just running super hot. It's hard to be objective.

I also feel the same way about taking shots at 2/5, it is much more emotionally tough to make the moves you KNOW you can make for $200 bluffs rather than $500 bluffs

Play 5/T and T/20 some and then you will never have an issue making big bluffs at 2/5.

Uncapped 1/2 is not quite 1/2.

Reason why most standard of crushing at whatever stake is 10bb/hr is because most games are 40 - 100bb BI limits and most players at the table have average of 60 - 80bb.

Uncapped games would increase both average BI and average players' chip stacks at the table, making it much more likely to achieve higher WR.

2/5 is a completely different beast altogether compared to 1/2. It requires a different skill set. Something that will come with experience at that level. You can master 1/2 as much as you want, but the skills that you need for crushing 2/5 will only develop once you make the transition.

If you have access to enough 2/5 games, then there's no reason to not make the transition. Unless bankroll is an issue. You will see an immediate increase in your hourly win-rate, and it will get better with time and experience.

winners tilt => new downswing

Depends if he insists on buying in for the max.

hate to break it to you johnnybuz but its highly improbable that you or anyone can achieve 40$/hour in 1/2, also your true win rate is much more likely to be around 20$ instead of 30-32

Paging mr. wj94 for win rate check

wj94 is the greatest 1/2 player in Vegas that has never moved up.

I finally hit 500+ hours of tracked results last night. This is only 1/2 and 1/3, $300 max buyin. I only play once a week, for 5-6 hours per session, aside from the 1/year vacation to the casino where I log 12 hours/day for 4-5 days.



I think my winrate is reflective of table selection skills and controlling momentum with an adaptable LAG style.

Here are the individual sessions:

Date Hours Profit Running Hours Running Profit
8/28/2013 5.43 $1.00 5.43 $1.00
9/5/2013 6.70 ($309.00) 12.13 ($308.00)
9/5/2013 4.50 $303.00 16.63 ($5.00)
9/6/2013 8.35 ($8.00) 24.98 ($13.00)
9/6/2013 0.85 ($135.00) 25.83 ($148.00)
9/7/2013 2.77 ($273.00) 28.60 ($421.00)
9/7/2013 2.02 $238.00 30.62 ($183.00)
9/7/2013 5.77 $832.00 36.39 $649.00
9/7/2013 2.80 $860.00 39.19 $1,509.00
9/8/2013 9.30 $507.00 48.49 $2,016.00
9/8/2013 10.07 $701.00 58.56 $2,717.00
9/9/2013 5.12 ($100.00) 63.68 $2,617.00
9/9/2013 5.57 $150.00 69.25 $2,767.00
9/18/2013 5.62 $430.00 74.87 $3,197.00
9/25/2013 5.42 $410.00 80.29 $3,607.00
10/2/2013 5.68 ($277.00) 85.97 $3,330.00
10/23/2013 4.95 $610.00 90.92 $3,940.00
10/30/2013 4.28 ($300.00) 95.20 $3,640.00
11/13/2013 5.70 $60.00 100.90 $3,700.00
11/20/2013 5.35 ($112.00) 106.25 $3,588.00
12/4/2013 6.17 $40.00 112.42 $3,628.00
12/11/2013 5.85 ($100.00) 118.27 $3,528.00
12/18/2013 6.32 $256.00 124.59 $3,784.00
1/15/2014 4.10 $700.00 128.69 $4,484.00
1/22/2014 5.00 $270.00 133.69 $4,754.00
1/29/2014 5.10 $629.00 138.79 $5,383.00
2/5/2014 5.10 $545.00 143.89 $5,928.00
2/19/2014 5.17 $170.00 149.06 $6,098.00
2/26/2014 5.25 $169.00 154.31 $6,267.00
3/5/2014 4.67 ($985.00) 158.98 $5,282.00
3/12/2014 4.78 ($35.00) 163.76 $5,247.00
3/19/2014 5.13 $1.00 168.89 $5,248.00
3/26/2014 5.65 $363.00 174.54 $5,611.00
4/2/2014 5.42 ($196.00) 179.96 $5,415.00
4/9/2014 6.03 $955.00 185.99 $6,370.00
4/16/2014 5.73 $1,016.00 191.72 $7,386.00
4/24/2014 5.08 ($77.00) 196.80 $7,309.00
4/30/2014 5.30 $576.00 202.10 $7,885.00
5/7/2014 4.92 $675.00 207.02 $8,560.00
5/21/2014 5.97 $655.00 212.99 $9,215.00
5/28/2014 4.83 $285.00 217.82 $9,500.00
6/4/2014 5.58 $1,570.00 223.40 $11,070.00
6/11/2014 4.73 $745.00 228.13 $11,815.00
6/18/2014 5.65 $1,080.00 233.78 $12,895.00
6/25/2014 6.12 ($580.00) 239.90 $12,315.00
7/2/2014 4.85 ($510.00) 244.75 $11,805.00
7/9/2014 5.92 $970.00 250.67 $12,775.00
7/16/2014 5.65 ($190.00) 256.32 $12,585.00
7/23/2014 4.55 $282.00 260.87 $12,867.00
7/30/2014 5.67 ($442.00) 266.54 $12,425.00
8/6/2014 5.82 $390.00 272.36 $12,815.00
8/20/2014 4.85 $455.00 277.21 $13,270.00
8/27/2014 4.78 $725.00 281.99 $13,995.00
9/24/2014 5.10 ($500.00) 287.09 $13,495.00
10/1/2014 5.00 ($500.00) 292.09 $12,995.00
10/8/2014 4.88 $77.00 296.97 $13,072.00
10/15/2014 5.58 ($325.00) 302.55 $12,747.00
10/22/2014 5.50 $280.00 308.05 $13,027.00
10/29/2014 4.83 $96.00 312.88 $13,123.00
11/5/2014 5.53 ($435.00) 318.41 $12,688.00
11/12/2014 4.88 $510.00 323.29 $13,198.00
11/19/2014 5.00 $93.00 328.29 $13,291.00
11/25/2014 4.53 ($500.00) 332.82 $12,791.00
12/3/2014 4.38 $445.00 337.20 $13,236.00
12/10/2014 5.38 $535.00 342.58 $13,771.00
12/17/2014 3.38 ($800.00) 345.96 $12,971.00
12/22/2014 5.05 $767.00 351.01 $13,738.00
1/14/2015 5.68 $1,230.00 356.69 $14,968.00
1/21/2015 5.85 $100.00 362.54 $15,068.00
1/28/2015 5.35 $365.00 367.89 $15,433.00
2/4/2015 5.27 $1,492.00 373.16 $16,925.00
2/11/2015 5.45 $51.00 378.61 $16,976.00
2/18/2015 6.00 $65.00 384.61 $17,041.00
2/26/2015 6.33 $1,100.00 390.94 $18,141.00
2/27/2015 3.10 $260.00 394.04 $18,401.00
2/27/2015 1.95 ($132.00) 395.99 $18,269.00
2/28/2015 0.62 $0.00 396.61 $18,269.00
2/28/2015 8.57 $1,500.00 405.18 $19,769.00
3/4/2015 4.72 ($450.00) 409.90 $19,319.00
3/11/2015 5.47 $375.00 415.37 $19,694.00
3/18/2015 6.18 $1,092.00 421.55 $20,786.00
3/25/2015 6.58 $560.00 428.13 $21,346.00
4/1/2015 5.12 $985.00 433.25 $22,331.00
4/8/2015 5.32 $350.00 438.57 $22,681.00
4/15/2015 5.53 $455.00 444.10 $23,136.00
4/22/2015 5.92 $550.00 450.02 $23,686.00
4/29/2015 5.32 ($800.00) 455.34 $22,886.00
5/2/2015 5.18 $140.00 460.52 $23,026.00
5/6/2015 2.87 ($900.00) 463.39 $22,126.00
5/13/2015 5.18 $260.00 468.57 $22,386.00
5/20/2015 5.45 $1,855.00 474.02 $24,241.00
5/27/2015 5.00 $300.00 479.02 $24,541.00
6/3/2015 5.43 $632.00 484.45 $25,173.00
6/10/2015 5.18 $1,940.00 489.63 $27,113.00
6/16/2015 5.55 $510.00 495.18 $27,623.00
6/24/2015 5.38 $825.00 500.57 $28,448.00

Sorry for the datadump wall of text but thought some might care to look through for some statistics that I haven't calculated.

Very nice gg. I ran through a downswing like that over a year ago, and I ended up walking away from the game for over a year. Even now, I probably average one session per month. But I'm having a lot more fun being a BE rec player and playing whatever stakes I want just for the pure entertainment of the game.

I tip my cap to your perseverance.

Max BI is also $300 at my room for 1/2. So if $20/hr at $200 max is considered crushing does that make $30/hr at $300 max long-term sustainable?

I don't think I am doing anything special to attain this win-rate right now. Wouldn't say I'm on a heater or anything. I just try to avoid mistakes at all costs, rarely get felted (unless it's a missed draw or something), don't chase marginal spots and routinely fold top-pair when it becomes obvious (to me at least) that it's no good.

Money saved is money earned and I see a lot of regs that I think could be "good" but they make at least one horrible call for their stack every session that destroys hours of decent play.

I think this is spot on, also if you are able to table/game select to find regs you can exploit the hell out of, or cut out of bad games easily, $30/hr+ should be sustainable.

Or withhold a tip to record a $1 session?

lol, that was actually at a self-deal game.

Most people don't understand that average BI, average stacks at the table, time of the day, and day of the week all contribute to WR.

I guess other caveats include that I table change to tables with average stacks of $200+ if I get stuck at a short stacking table and my sessions usually take place from 9pm - 3am so I am usually involved in games that start getting loose and gambooly late night. A lot of nights I'll be stuck early and then clean up in the last hour or two. It sucks going to work the next day on a few hours of sleep but hey, it's necessary sometimes.

Sounds like it is possible.