Google Miss Kansas for several impressive "accomplishments".

F U - I am pretty proud of it.

I thought about saying the same thing but I don't think it's really fair. There are some really good 2/5 players.

If you play as well as you answer questions I guess we can eliminate you.

If you have a full-time job and are only playing for recreation or side money or whatever, then $11k is WAY over the roll you need to have to be taking shots. For what it's worth, I took my first shot at 2/5 when my roll was still under $6k. I only felt comfortable doing it, though, because I didn't actually rely on the money in my roll to pay for necessities--otherwise that wouldn't have been nearly enough. $15k-20k I would consider to be over-rolled for 2/5 (for someone who has a full-time job as well). In fact, my roll was in the $20k-25k range the first time I sat in a 5/10 game.

But regardless, also all of this:

As long as you think to yourself, "OK, my roll is big enough to play in these games, now I'm going to pick the best game to play in" (not just the best 1/2 or the best 2/5), you will not go far wrong.

^ In addition, the playing in "only a really good game" suggestion, I'd define "really good" while you're in this transition as low variance. I said it once before in a stand-alone thread and no one agreed with me but the mental and monetary effects of playing in a very loose 2-5 game can be detrimental whether you win or lose. You lose and get shell-shocked or win and feel like it's so easy, why did you ever play 1-2. So I'd look for lineups comprised of many guys you've played with at 1-2, you're not going in readless, you know where the good seat is, and the bet sizing won't be dramatically different.

Do you think it's possible to be over rolled from a BR perspective but under rolled from an "experience" perspective? I have ~700 hours experience at 1/2, though 350-400 of those came in my "dark age" period when I was routinely playing drunk before I took 4 months off to reassess and retool my game.

I think my game has taken a big step forward moving beyond ABC. I'm doing a lot more adjusting. playing the player, making some well timed bluff-raises when I think my opponent's range is capped. But some of the things I am doing now at 1/2 I don't think I would be able to do at 2/5 due to the potential swings/variance.

The reason I am trying to delay 2/5 is because I want to be absolutely MURDERING 1/2 before I make the move so that my game translates seamlessly to 2/5 and the only thing I have to worry about is geometrically increasing my bet sizing rather than playing a watered down lower variance ABC game than what I am developing now.

I've gotta say, 1/2 is starting to get REALLY REALLY fun. And I think another 300-500 hours would serve me really well there, but that would realistically take me through the end of 2015. Is it really a life leak to continue cutting my teeth there? I just turned 28 - I feel like I am entering my "poker prime" and I wanna enjoy the journey and see where it takes me, but I just don't want to move up prematurely.

There is also a 1/3 game I could go to (a bit farther drive) with a $500 max buy-in. I think I may try that out in the interim.

How come Doug doesn't get any respect? Doug knows all of the edges..
X(fundamentals) + Y(edges)= Z($$the best)

You don't need more experience at 1/2. 2/5 is low limit. Try it, imho. You can always do it gradually. E.g., plan to play half 1/2 and half 2/5 for the next two months. If you feel good then, then play only 2/5. For now, play both every night. Or play 1/2 the first night, and 2/5 the next night, then 1/2 the next night, etc. Just try it, exactly how is up to you. The only really important key is that if your BR gets too small, then move back down to only 1/2.

Not a leak at all to stay where you are comfy for right now. I wouldn't call 11k being way overrolled. It is a big roll, but a downswing and/or an unexpected life expense can still take out a decent chunk of it and cause you heartache. After playing under rolled for quite a while, I can tell you that it is more than worth being over rolled. Even it's more than you need from a mathematical perspective, it is awesome from a peace of mind perspective.

Once you start getting closer to 20k, you are probably making a decent mistake by not playing 2/5. For now, there is nothing wrong with continuing to learn and grinding out the 1/2 money. If you do see an incredible 2/5 game though, there is nothing wrong with taking a shot. No one goes broke with conservative BRM.

A lot of people will say you should play bigger, but a lot of people fool themselves about how bad variance can get and how much you really need to be totally comfortable. I understand you aren't paying your bills, but I'm assuming it would be pretty hard to get started again if you were to bust. That was my experience anyway. If you have a ton of extra money every month to replenish your BR with then you can be much more aggressive.

Making the most money doesn't have to be your motivation in poker.

If your hourly is higher in 2/5 but the swings make you sick whereas you're perfectly happy at 1/2, you don't need to rush to move up.

That said I see no reason you can't take shots or sit in particularly juicy games. Or just try playing one session because you're so curious.

Just to clarify--11k is definitely not over-rolled to be playing 2/5. I do think it is over-rolled for a rec player to be taking shots at 2/5. I mean, we may be coming from different places here but I think if you are a rec player and your roll is 7k+ you are over-rolled for 1/2 and can afford to take 2 buy-ins to a 2/5 table and try it out.

When I was a rec player with an 11k bankroll, I mostly played 2/5. That said, with that size roll, I would drop down to 1/2 before allowing myself to have a sustained downswing at 2/5 for exactly the reason you gave.

EDIT: To Johnny: I think the takeaway from what I and others are telling you should probably be, your roll is big enough that you can choose whether you want to play 1/2 or 2/5, but not necessarily that you *should* do either. Just play the game you want to play and don't feel like you should sit out of 2/5 because your roll isn't big enough. You might choose to stay at 1/2 for a different reason, but it shouldn't be because you're under-rolled to play 2/5.

Does anyone else have a problem with the phrase "taking shots?" To me that means praying to bink a session in a game you know you don't belong. I don't have a good phrase but playing 1 level higher is really "not comfortable playing that level regularly because of my bankroll but I know my skill is adequate." Maybe we can come up with a better phrase.

"NCPTLRBOMBBIKMSIA"

^ control + c and never copy anything to the clipboard ever again

It doesn't mean that to me at all. One of the oddities of poker is that where your skill set implies you should be and where your bankroll allows you to be can often be very different. "Taking a shot" to me is a bankroll thing, not a skill thing.

Exactly. I've sat on the rail watching a few $5/10/20 games and was surprised it wasn't as tough a game as I was expecting. If I sat in one of those games, I may not have been a huge favorite but I definitely wouldn't have been one of the spots. Still, I'd play scared money because I'd have my entire bankroll in play.

^ That's what I want it to mean. I didn't create the nomenclature but shots has a more "lottery-like" connotation to it.

Well I fully intended on sitting in at 2/5 last night (thanks to the words of encouragement here) but as soon as I saw them assign me to a short-handed table of six 2/5 reg-grinders that I recognized I immediately said "no thanks" and plopped my ass back down at 1/2.

So ... score one for table selection I guess

Definitely don't play short handed given that it is higher variance than full ring and requires you to play more hands. When starting out at a new level I'd recommend playing a very tight range of hands while you get accustomed to the play at that level.

Is 2/5 the biggest stakes offered at your casino? 6 grinders seems excessive. My guess is that many of the players that you see "grinding" 2/5 everyday are actually really bad recreational players.

I'm starting to take shots at the 2/5 at my local casino and my bankroll is nowhere near what your is, johnny. I'm a recreational player and once I reached a level that I felt comfortable losing, say, $1000 at a 2/5 shot, I put my name on the list when I saw a good table. From my observations the 2/5 often plays very similar to 1/2 as far as player skill and stack size. To be fair, our 1/2 has a $500 max buyin and the 2/5 has a $1000 max buyin, so this may not be as applicable if your 1/2 is capped at $200.

IMO a good game for someone taking shots is not a deepstacked, aggressive game. If you hit a couple of hands, you can make a big win but the variance is counterproductive to getting experience at this level. I prefer games with players that I see often playing 1/2 and with stacks closer to what I'm used to playing with. I buy in for $400-$500 rather than the max because it's what I'm comfortable with. As I win a few pots, I get more and more used to having a lot of money on the table and making good decisions with it. If the fish in the game bust out and are replaced by remotely competent players, I'll pick up and go home or back to 1/2. This is exactly what happened last night, in fact. I followed a spewtard from 1/2 to the 2/5, found two more already sitting in the game and managed to get all of them to donate to me. When the last of them left, I called it a night.

tldr: Pick games that are close to what you're used to at 1/2 when possible and target bad 1/2 players who are playing 2/5 that night.

I was in your exact situation two years ago. Good job, growing bankroll, crushing 1/2 and 2/3

I would be doing what it seems you're doing. Look first at the 2/5 game and if it looks ok, sit in it. There are definitely better players playing higher but even some of the guys who look like good regs probably aren't very good when you've observed them for a while so unless the game is really bad, sit there.

At least in my room, the game plays differently and you'll need time to adjust to it and the larger sizing so it'll take a while before you get used to it and confident you understand it

I've got 350 ish hours at 5/5 now and I think it took 200+ hours to get comfortable. And I still sit at 3/3 sometimes if the games are bad higher up

I was saying 11k isn't hugely over rolled for 1/2. It is a big roll but if you're happy making your 1/2 win rate and having a good time then I wouldnt be in a rush to move.

Personally I like to have 40-50 BIs for my main game before taking shots. I know that seems way excessive to some people, but there is a reason I am one of the most aggro regs in my game and can make very light hero calls, all while sleeping very well regardless of the outcome.

That said, I was much more aggressive moving up to 2/5 because I wasn't really satisfied with my 1/2 hourly. I'm not saying Johnny shouldnt play really good games. Just saying it is far from necessary if he is happy where he is currently at. So I think we agree on that.

Just take 1 day and play the other game its worth it. Lots of people make their first "move up" foray when the game is particularly juicy aka it's playing like the stake above so they're actually skipping a level (or more even.)

I think that is the goal to effectively BINK a large session. That way being more comfortably bankrolled for the larger 2/5 game becomes quicker.

Sometime depending on the 2/5 table moving from 1/2 with a ~$200 stack and playing push shove is good choice. your risking the same but a double up or two might be easier if the 1/2 game is bad that night.

It comes down to profit, risk and reward, bankroll management, shot taking analysis, and table selection. A good poker player can't learn how to be "great" by following guidelines. Because situations are never the same and a player should eventually rely on instinct on playing the hands were dealt in the most +ev way. A seasoned shark can smell fresh blood miles away and they must rely on instinct that is learned and adapted along the way.