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Old 04-26-2015, 03:50 PM   #9326
eldiesel
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If his real life Villains always did exactly what he wanted, like the Villains in Poker Plays You Can Use, he might be.

Last edited by eldiesel; 04-26-2015 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 04-26-2015, 04:04 PM   #9327
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Who's considered the best live 2/5nl player in the world? is it Doug Hull..anyone know/ guess what his winrate is at 2/5nl?
Lately its Duke.
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Old 04-26-2015, 04:54 PM   #9328
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Lately its Duke.
He plays 3/5 bruh. Completely different game.
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Old 04-26-2015, 05:08 PM   #9329
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Who's considered the best live 2/5nl player in the world? is it Doug Hull..anyone know/ guess what his winrate is at 2/5nl?
Pretty sure it's me, and I am also world's tallest midget.
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Old 04-26-2015, 06:14 PM   #9330
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Originally Posted by bstillmatic View Post
Who's considered the best live 2/5nl player in the world? is it Doug Hull..anyone know/ guess what his winrate is at 2/5nl?
About $3.50
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Old 04-26-2015, 08:56 PM   #9331
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Being the best 2/5 player is like being the best looking person in Kansas. It's not exactly an accomplishment.
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Old 04-26-2015, 09:12 PM   #9332
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Google Miss Kansas for several impressive "accomplishments".
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Old 04-26-2015, 09:23 PM   #9333
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Being the best 2/5 player is like being the best looking person in Kansas. It's not exactly an accomplishment.

F U - I am pretty proud of it.
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Old 04-26-2015, 09:25 PM   #9334
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Being the best 2/5 player is like being the best looking person in Kansas. It's not exactly an accomplishment.

I thought about saying the same thing but I don't think it's really fair. There are some really good 2/5 players.
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Old 04-27-2015, 01:00 AM   #9335
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Originally Posted by bstillmatic View Post
Who's considered the best live 2/5nl player in the world?
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Originally Posted by 11t View Post
Being the best 2/5 player is not exactly an accomplishment.
If you play as well as you answer questions I guess we can eliminate you.
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Old 04-27-2015, 02:41 AM   #9336
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had a pretty good night at 1/2 last night. bankroll around $11,000. trying to decide what i want to do. my original goal was to play 2/5 once i got to 15-20k but that is quickly approaching and i feel i still have a lot of learning/experimentation to work on. i've been sitting in 2/5 once every two weeks or so but don't want to make it my game right now. but the other guy on my opposite shoulder is saying "take a shot. the money is better there."
If you have a full-time job and are only playing for recreation or side money or whatever, then $11k is WAY over the roll you need to have to be taking shots. For what it's worth, I took my first shot at 2/5 when my roll was still under $6k. I only felt comfortable doing it, though, because I didn't actually rely on the money in my roll to pay for necessities--otherwise that wouldn't have been nearly enough. $15k-20k I would consider to be over-rolled for 2/5 (for someone who has a full-time job as well). In fact, my roll was in the $20k-25k range the first time I sat in a 5/10 game.

But regardless, also all of this:

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Imo, the way to go is to keep grinding out 1/2 and take shots at 2/5 only when you see a really good game.

...

Also, as you move up, don't fall into the trap of being a "2/5 player." You will be much better off, being willing to play any level depending on game quality and bankroll circumstances. Good luck.
As long as you think to yourself, "OK, my roll is big enough to play in these games, now I'm going to pick the best game to play in" (not just the best 1/2 or the best 2/5), you will not go far wrong.
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Old 04-27-2015, 03:52 AM   #9337
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^ In addition, the playing in "only a really good game" suggestion, I'd define "really good" while you're in this transition as low variance. I said it once before in a stand-alone thread and no one agreed with me but the mental and monetary effects of playing in a very loose 2-5 game can be detrimental whether you win or lose. You lose and get shell-shocked or win and feel like it's so easy, why did you ever play 1-2. So I'd look for lineups comprised of many guys you've played with at 1-2, you're not going in readless, you know where the good seat is, and the bet sizing won't be dramatically different.
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Old 04-27-2015, 10:41 AM   #9338
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11k is definitely way more than enough to take a shot/move to 2/5, especially since you have a full-time job/separate life roll.

being too comfortable with where you are and being a bankroll nit is a life leak imo. once upon a time i had a 4500 roll for live poker playing 1/2, took a shot at 2/5 and never looked back

the bigger your edge/winrate is, the less the standard bankroll guidelines apply to you. GL!
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If you have a full-time job and are only playing for recreation or side money or whatever, then $11k is WAY over the roll you need to have to be taking shots. For what it's worth, I took my first shot at 2/5 when my roll was still under $6k. I only felt comfortable doing it, though, because I didn't actually rely on the money in my roll to pay for necessities--otherwise that wouldn't have been nearly enough. $15k-20k I would consider to be over-rolled for 2/5 (for someone who has a full-time job as well). In fact, my roll was in the $20k-25k range the first time I sat in a 5/10 game.
Do you think it's possible to be over rolled from a BR perspective but under rolled from an "experience" perspective? I have ~700 hours experience at 1/2, though 350-400 of those came in my "dark age" period when I was routinely playing drunk before I took 4 months off to reassess and retool my game.

I think my game has taken a big step forward moving beyond ABC. I'm doing a lot more adjusting. playing the player, making some well timed bluff-raises when I think my opponent's range is capped. But some of the things I am doing now at 1/2 I don't think I would be able to do at 2/5 due to the potential swings/variance.

The reason I am trying to delay 2/5 is because I want to be absolutely MURDERING 1/2 before I make the move so that my game translates seamlessly to 2/5 and the only thing I have to worry about is geometrically increasing my bet sizing rather than playing a watered down lower variance ABC game than what I am developing now.

I've gotta say, 1/2 is starting to get REALLY REALLY fun. And I think another 300-500 hours would serve me really well there, but that would realistically take me through the end of 2015. Is it really a life leak to continue cutting my teeth there? I just turned 28 - I feel like I am entering my "poker prime" and I wanna enjoy the journey and see where it takes me, but I just don't want to move up prematurely.

There is also a 1/3 game I could go to (a bit farther drive) with a $500 max buy-in. I think I may try that out in the interim.
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Old 04-27-2015, 10:46 AM   #9339
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Why would he be considered the best 2/5 player in the world?
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel View Post
If his real life Villains always did exactly what he wanted, like the Villains in Poker Plays You Can Use, he might be.
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Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
Pretty sure it's me, and I am also world's tallest midget.
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Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
About $3.50
How come Doug doesn't get any respect? Doug knows all of the edges..
X(fundamentals) + Y(edges)= Z($$the best)
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Old 04-28-2015, 06:24 PM   #9340
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
Do you think it's possible to be over rolled from a BR perspective but under rolled from an "experience" perspective? I have ~700 hours experience at 1/2, though 350-400 of those came in my "dark age" period when I was routinely playing drunk before I took 4 months off to reassess and retool my game.

I think my game has taken a big step forward moving beyond ABC. I'm doing a lot more adjusting. playing the player, making some well timed bluff-raises when I think my opponent's range is capped. But some of the things I am doing now at 1/2 I don't think I would be able to do at 2/5 due to the potential swings/variance.

The reason I am trying to delay 2/5 is because I want to be absolutely MURDERING 1/2 before I make the move so that my game translates seamlessly to 2/5 and the only thing I have to worry about is geometrically increasing my bet sizing rather than playing a watered down lower variance ABC game than what I am developing now.

I've gotta say, 1/2 is starting to get REALLY REALLY fun. And I think another 300-500 hours would serve me really well there, but that would realistically take me through the end of 2015. Is it really a life leak to continue cutting my teeth there? I just turned 28 - I feel like I am entering my "poker prime" and I wanna enjoy the journey and see where it takes me, but I just don't want to move up prematurely.

There is also a 1/3 game I could go to (a bit farther drive) with a $500 max buy-in. I think I may try that out in the interim.
You don't need more experience at 1/2. 2/5 is low limit. Try it, imho. You can always do it gradually. E.g., plan to play half 1/2 and half 2/5 for the next two months. If you feel good then, then play only 2/5. For now, play both every night. Or play 1/2 the first night, and 2/5 the next night, then 1/2 the next night, etc. Just try it, exactly how is up to you. The only really important key is that if your BR gets too small, then move back down to only 1/2.
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Old 04-28-2015, 11:38 PM   #9341
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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
Do you think it's possible to be over rolled from a BR perspective but under rolled from an "experience" perspective? I have ~700 hours experience at 1/2, though 350-400 of those came in my "dark age" period when I was routinely playing drunk before I took 4 months off to reassess and retool my game.

I think my game has taken a big step forward moving beyond ABC. I'm doing a lot more adjusting. playing the player, making some well timed bluff-raises when I think my opponent's range is capped. But some of the things I am doing now at 1/2 I don't think I would be able to do at 2/5 due to the potential swings/variance.

The reason I am trying to delay 2/5 is because I want to be absolutely MURDERING 1/2 before I make the move so that my game translates seamlessly to 2/5 and the only thing I have to worry about is geometrically increasing my bet sizing rather than playing a watered down lower variance ABC game than what I am developing now.

I've gotta say, 1/2 is starting to get REALLY REALLY fun. And I think another 300-500 hours would serve me really well there, but that would realistically take me through the end of 2015. Is it really a life leak to continue cutting my teeth there? I just turned 28 - I feel like I am entering my "poker prime" and I wanna enjoy the journey and see where it takes me, but I just don't want to move up prematurely.

There is also a 1/3 game I could go to (a bit farther drive) with a $500 max buy-in. I think I may try that out in the interim.
Not a leak at all to stay where you are comfy for right now. I wouldn't call 11k being way overrolled. It is a big roll, but a downswing and/or an unexpected life expense can still take out a decent chunk of it and cause you heartache. After playing under rolled for quite a while, I can tell you that it is more than worth being over rolled. Even it's more than you need from a mathematical perspective, it is awesome from a peace of mind perspective.

Once you start getting closer to 20k, you are probably making a decent mistake by not playing 2/5. For now, there is nothing wrong with continuing to learn and grinding out the 1/2 money. If you do see an incredible 2/5 game though, there is nothing wrong with taking a shot. No one goes broke with conservative BRM.

A lot of people will say you should play bigger, but a lot of people fool themselves about how bad variance can get and how much you really need to be totally comfortable. I understand you aren't paying your bills, but I'm assuming it would be pretty hard to get started again if you were to bust. That was my experience anyway. If you have a ton of extra money every month to replenish your BR with then you can be much more aggressive.
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Old 04-29-2015, 12:07 AM   #9342
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Making the most money doesn't have to be your motivation in poker.

If your hourly is higher in 2/5 but the swings make you sick whereas you're perfectly happy at 1/2, you don't need to rush to move up.

That said I see no reason you can't take shots or sit in particularly juicy games. Or just try playing one session because you're so curious.
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Old 04-29-2015, 02:17 PM   #9343
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I wouldn't call 11k being way overrolled. It is a big roll, but a downswing and/or an unexpected life expense can still take out a decent chunk of it and cause you heartache.
Just to clarify--11k is definitely not over-rolled to be playing 2/5. I do think it is over-rolled for a rec player to be taking shots at 2/5. I mean, we may be coming from different places here but I think if you are a rec player and your roll is 7k+ you are over-rolled for 1/2 and can afford to take 2 buy-ins to a 2/5 table and try it out.

When I was a rec player with an 11k bankroll, I mostly played 2/5. That said, with that size roll, I would drop down to 1/2 before allowing myself to have a sustained downswing at 2/5 for exactly the reason you gave.

EDIT: To Johnny: I think the takeaway from what I and others are telling you should probably be, your roll is big enough that you can choose whether you want to play 1/2 or 2/5, but not necessarily that you *should* do either. Just play the game you want to play and don't feel like you should sit out of 2/5 because your roll isn't big enough. You might choose to stay at 1/2 for a different reason, but it shouldn't be because you're under-rolled to play 2/5.
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Old 04-29-2015, 02:56 PM   #9344
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Does anyone else have a problem with the phrase "taking shots?" To me that means praying to bink a session in a game you know you don't belong. I don't have a good phrase but playing 1 level higher is really "not comfortable playing that level regularly because of my bankroll but I know my skill is adequate." Maybe we can come up with a better phrase.
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Old 04-29-2015, 03:00 PM   #9345
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"not comfortable playing that level regularly because of my bankroll but I know my skill is adequate." Maybe we can come up with a better phrase.
"NCPTLRBOMBBIKMSIA"
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Old 04-29-2015, 03:13 PM   #9346
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^ control + c and never copy anything to the clipboard ever again
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Old 04-29-2015, 03:14 PM   #9347
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Does anyone else have a problem with the phrase "taking shots?" To me that means praying to bink a session in a game you know you don't belong. I don't have a good phrase but playing 1 level higher is really "not comfortable playing that level regularly because of my bankroll but I know my skill is adequate." Maybe we can come up with a better phrase.
It doesn't mean that to me at all. One of the oddities of poker is that where your skill set implies you should be and where your bankroll allows you to be can often be very different. "Taking a shot" to me is a bankroll thing, not a skill thing.
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Old 04-29-2015, 03:38 PM   #9348
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It doesn't mean that to me at all. One of the oddities of poker is that where your skill set implies you should be and where your bankroll allows you to be can often be very different. "Taking a shot" to me is a bankroll thing, not a skill thing.
Exactly. I've sat on the rail watching a few $5/10/20 games and was surprised it wasn't as tough a game as I was expecting. If I sat in one of those games, I may not have been a huge favorite but I definitely wouldn't have been one of the spots. Still, I'd play scared money because I'd have my entire bankroll in play.
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Old 04-29-2015, 03:43 PM   #9349
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^ That's what I want it to mean. I didn't create the nomenclature but shots has a more "lottery-like" connotation to it.
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Old 04-29-2015, 03:50 PM   #9350
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Well I fully intended on sitting in at 2/5 last night (thanks to the words of encouragement here) but as soon as I saw them assign me to a short-handed table of six 2/5 reg-grinders that I recognized I immediately said "no thanks" and plopped my ass back down at 1/2.

So ... score one for table selection I guess
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