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Old 03-29-2015, 09:55 PM   #9176
Palmersquall
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

New live player here. Here are my results after 160 hours. I know I have been running hot but i've also been playing super solid and have made a ton of good folds post flop.
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Old 03-29-2015, 10:07 PM   #9177
D0UGHBOY
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

You suck at 2/5.
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Old 03-29-2015, 10:17 PM   #9178
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Palmersquall View Post
New live player here. Here are my results after 160 hours. I know I have been running hot but i've also been playing super solid and have made a ton of good folds post flop.
Pretty sick results. Can you talk about your strategy a bit?
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Old 03-29-2015, 10:52 PM   #9179
Palmersquall
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Pretty sick results. Can you talk about your strategy a bit?
PM me your skype name.
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Old 03-29-2015, 11:21 PM   #9180
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PM me your skype name.
I can't use skype anymore because someone tried to extort me on it (long story bro). Can you PM me here?
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Old 03-29-2015, 11:54 PM   #9181
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I can't use skype anymore because someone tried to extort me on it (long story bro). Can you PM me here?

Ahh the ole get naked and jerk off for a dude extortion scam.
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Old 03-30-2015, 02:04 AM   #9182
de4df1sh
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Ahh the ole get naked and jerk off for a dude extortion scam.
But he gave me coaching for free.
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Old 03-30-2015, 11:09 AM   #9183
pexw
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Haha. Well it definitely wasn't a dude at least. I'm at work now but maybe I'll tell the full story later.
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Old 03-30-2015, 11:23 AM   #9184
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Not sure if I should make a new thread for this or not.

I'm an architect and I've been playing live 1/2 and 1/3 since January. My sample size is obviously still really small yet but I want to see if anyone can make anything of my current stats.




I know 90 hours is not enough to determine anything, but any feedback would be great. I know I'm not a great player, but I feel like I have had a lot of bad luck in my last several sessions. Like getting all-in with the nuts only to be boated up on. I do believe that if I continue playing I will eventually win over a long period of time. But I'm finding it's nearly impossible to get people to fold their flush or straight draws at these games I play in. It's almost like I need to tighten up even more and only play the nittiest possible game in order to win. I have plugged one major leak that I had early on, which is paying people off on the river when I know I'm beat. I'm studying every week and I feel like my game is definitely improving. One of the big edges I've found in these games is sitting to the left of LAG players who will bet with nothing and call all your raises.

Here's my rough pre-flop opening range (this obviously varies depending on villains, e.g. I'll loosen up a bit at a tight table and tighten up at a loose one):

Blinds: AKs, QQ+
EP: JJ+, AJ+
MP: 88+, T9s+, KJ+, AJo+, ATs+
LP: 55+, 87s+, QT+, KTs+, A8s+, 98o+, AJo+
BTN: 22+, 56s+, J9s+, KTs+, K9s+, Axs, A8o+, 87o+, T8o+

My pre-flop 3bet range is very tight. I'm usually only 3-betting AK, KQs, or JJ+. It loosens up a little bit if I'm on the BTN, then I might consider 3-betting something like JTs+ 1/3 of the time.

I'll typically limp a lot of low pocket pairs and suited connectors from MP and LP.

I try to play a pretty tight ABC game and throw in a few semi-bluffs here or there. I will fold to a cbet or post-flop 3bet most of the time if my cards don't hit. At the same time, I don't think I'm the most predictable player at the table. I try to do things to throw people off here or there like 3-betting with 87s in MP or limping JJ.

One thing I find really hard to do is to leave a game when I'm behind after a few hours. Like if I'm down $100 after 5 hours I'll sit there until I go bust rather than just going home.

Any feedback is very much appreciated!
Bottom line is that 90 hours just isn't enough to tell anything.

Your preflop raising range is a lot wider than mine, but for me it all depends on whether your raises are successfully narrowing the field. If they are (preferably to HU) then it's probably fine. But if you are just building bloated multiway pots every time, my belief is that you should rethink this strategy.

Best idea is to post some hands / grunch other threads and glean as much as you can from that, imo.

Ggoodluck!G
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Old 03-30-2015, 12:42 PM   #9185
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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But I'm finding it's nearly impossible to get people to fold their flush or straight draws at these games I play in.
Players with no fold button are what I look for.

Quote:
One thing I find really hard to do is to leave a game when I'm behind after a few hours. Like if I'm down $100 after 5 hours I'll sit there until I go bust rather than just going home.
That sounds like you don't take things seriously when down, results oriented. There are many reasons to keep playing, chasing losses is bad. Don't rack off, cash out. I've left and gone home 20 minutes into a table because I figured out the players were on my level or above, and that's not profitable unless I get lucky.
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Old 03-30-2015, 01:06 PM   #9186
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I've left and gone home 20 minutes into a table because I figured out the players were on my level or above, and that's not profitable unless I get lucky.
Oh man. If that's really true, sometimes that's a good time to sit and watch. Fold (nearly) everything and just pay attention to what they're doing and how they're playing. (While obviously waiting on a table change request.)
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Old 03-30-2015, 04:07 PM   #9187
Koko the munkey
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I sat in a short-handed 2-5 game in Las Vegas last year during the series. It was me and 4 European grinders. I got up and left after a short time. Sometimes there is just easier money to be made at a different table.
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Old 03-30-2015, 04:39 PM   #9188
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Pretty sick results. Can you talk about your strategy a bit?
4srs, don't follow as gospel the guy with 160 hours of live play. He may be a good player but he may just be a guy on a heater.
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Old 03-30-2015, 04:57 PM   #9189
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

@pexw

As has been mentioned, results are fairly irrelevant until you get close to 1000 hours and even then it's more just an indicator. Don't fret too much about a loss over 100 hours. You are winning more than you are losing per session, so you have that going for you. What you want to focus on going forward are these aspects of your game:

1) (While playing) Am I playing well right now? If not, can I refocus or should I go home even if it means booking a loss? (Small losses are obviously preferable to big ones)

2) (After the session) Am I getting my money in as a favorite? If not, what is the key decision I'm making that is leading to getting the money in bad? Focus on playing better in those spots.

3) When you experiencing a bad run, it is helpful to return to basics. Playing straightforward ABC will win the money at 1/2 and while it can be useful to mix up your play, at the lowest levels it's mostly unnecessary. Our opponents are generally unobservant and making balancing plays can introduce leaks into our game without any real benefit.

4) Post and discuss hands that you're unsure of and don't dwell on losing hands where you lose as a favorite against their range.

If you can do these things, I'm confident that your winrate will quickly right itself.
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Old 03-30-2015, 06:11 PM   #9190
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I think the best way to learn live game is to play abc tag at 5 or 10nl online. Nothing beats experience and you play a lot more hands online for wayy cheaper. A break-even 10nl player can win at 200nl live if you don't tilt and are able to stay patient.

On a bright side, just had the best session of my life yesterday. Running good on a gambly table=very fun.
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Old 03-30-2015, 06:15 PM   #9191
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrinningBuddha View Post
1) (While playing) Am I playing well right now? If not, can I refocus or should I go home even if it means booking a loss? (Small losses are obviously preferable to big ones)

2) (After the session) Am I getting my money in as a favorite? If not, what is the key decision I'm making that is leading to getting the money in bad? Focus on playing better in those spots.
One question that kind of covers both of these is Am I winning the reciprocality game? #Tommy Angelo
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Old 03-31-2015, 03:11 AM   #9192
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I think the best way to learn live game is to play abc tag at 5 or 10nl online. Nothing beats experience and you play a lot more hands online for wayy cheaper.
Not really. It's like saying that play lots and lots of play money poker will help you improve, and that old farts who have been playing poker for 50 years are best players.

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A break-even 10nl player can win at 200nl live if you don't tilt and are able to stay patient.
Apple and orange.
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Old 03-31-2015, 10:50 AM   #9193
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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A break-even 10nl player can win at 200nl live if you don't tilt and are able to stay patient.
I often found this to be close to the truth but is obviously very dependent on which online site you play on and which casino you are playing at...

What do people think is an achievable win rate playing £1/£2 or $1/$2 ?
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Old 03-31-2015, 11:08 AM   #9194
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Read post #1 of the thread
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Old 03-31-2015, 12:16 PM   #9195
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Not sure how many online players came to this forum and wonder why they can't beat live.

Everyone just assume that because it is tougher to win online, therefore you must have acquired the skillset to beat live.
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Old 03-31-2015, 12:18 PM   #9196
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by elnino550 View Post
I often found this to be close to the truth but is obviously very dependent on which online site you play on and which casino you are playing at...

What do people think is an achievable win rate playing £1/£2 or $1/$2 ?
$3.50 is pretty solid
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Old 03-31-2015, 12:20 PM   #9197
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Not really. It's like saying that play lots and lots of play money poker will help you improve, and that old farts who have been playing poker for 50 years are best players.
You need decent fundamentals to beat online, the same fundamentals you need to beat low stake live.

Of course the game is slightly different and there is a transition period to adjust to multiway bloated pot but the discipline to fold hands/hand read/bet sizes can all be learned OL.
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Old 03-31-2015, 12:30 PM   #9198
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You need decent fundamentals to beat online, the same fundamentals you need to beat low stake live.
Can't disagree with the first part, but definitely disagree with the second.

There are many elements required to beat live, because you can't just sit there in front of your computer and multi-table to grind out small edges.

How many of these players that beat online would still play same game if they are not allowed to multi-table?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kekeeke View Post
Of course the game is slightly different and there is a transition period to adjust to multiway bloated pot but the discipline to fold hands/hand read/bet sizes can all be learned OL.
It's more than that.

Sure, you can establish a baseline rather easy in live, but whatever edge you think you have in beating 10NL, it ain't gonna help you to beat boredom, tilts, and the randomness that are donkeys.

Funniest thing I read is always: "god, these live players are so bad...but I don't know how to beat them, because I have never played with players as bad as them online."
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Old 03-31-2015, 12:50 PM   #9199
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Funniest thing I read is always: "god, these live players are so bad...but I don't know how to beat them, because I have never played with players as bad as them online."
I remember thinking something like this. "Wow I should be crushing this game people are so bad" when I started my transition to live.

Of course the mental aspect of the game is different, but abc poker is abc poker.
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Old 03-31-2015, 12:59 PM   #9200
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Of course the mental aspect of the game is different, but abc poker is abc poker.
LOL at abc poker...
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