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Old 02-11-2015, 10:10 PM   #9001
I.G.
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Let me preface this my saying I am overolled for the stakes I play. Personally, I don't worry about stop losses anymore...I just play my set time for the session and call it a day. Over almost a year and a half of semi full time 2/5 play I have had one 500+bb loss, 2 400+bb losses and plenty of 300+bb or less losses. I definitely feel I play better when I'm not up against it and I'm just playing poker. Chips are just pieces of clay we use to keep score.

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Old 02-12-2015, 02:00 AM   #9002
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If you're under-rolled nothing can help you. But you can be medium-rolled. Then a stop loss will prevent you from overcoming an early bad streak but it will also prevent you from experiencing a very long bad streak. Ideally I'd love to be way over-rolled, but if I had that much money, I probably wouldn't be playing LLSNL to help earn a living.


Agree with most of that. I'm always underrolled in the home games cause it's massive plo where people get in several k pre with 4578 one suit. Because of the roll reqs I won't be "safe" for a minute.

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Old 02-12-2015, 02:46 AM   #9003
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I've personally found the big home games to almost have less variance because the players are:
generally worse
you can run it two, three or four times

Technically I'm probably not rolled for a 2/5 PLO game that has a straddle to 10 or a Mississippi to $20 every hand, but I've been more or less crushing the game for a year but it rarely plays that big, but will obviously be happy when it does.
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:52 AM   #9004
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I can't speak for all home games but the ones in my area are degrees of magnitude easier to beat for many of the reasons Dave mentioned. It took me a long time to get invited. It's one huge reason why being a dick or a buds wearing hermit at the table are big time -EV. I had to overcome bein a crushing player in their games by being a fun guy to have at the game. Once I was in, the money flowed. I suspect its similar elsewhere.
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Old 02-12-2015, 02:13 PM   #9005
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

^ What's the rake like at your guys' home games?
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Old 02-12-2015, 02:26 PM   #9006
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

same as card rooms.
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Old 02-12-2015, 02:30 PM   #9007
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^ What's the rake like at your guys' home games?


At the games I play in around 650 comes off the table per hour.

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Old 02-12-2015, 05:36 PM   #9008
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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At the games I play in around 650 comes off the table per hour.

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I'm in the wrong business.
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Old 02-12-2015, 05:41 PM   #9009
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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At the games I play in around 650 comes off the table per hour.

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Don't forget the game plays as big as 10/20. That makes a huge difference.
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Old 02-12-2015, 06:03 PM   #9010
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by zoltan View Post
We have it within our control to reduce variance because "tilt" is an intermediary that (likely) increases variance.
+1
We all know tilt kills winrate, duh, but tilt also magnifies variance. So reduce tilt = reduce variance.
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Old 02-12-2015, 07:01 PM   #9011
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Hey guys I just have a couple questions. I'm mainly a live tournament player but I've been thinking about getting into cash games more just to hopefully add a little more vacation money to my bank account. I have a full time job that pays all of my bills. My goal is to start out at 1-2 or 1-3 and work my way up to 2-5 or higher. Since I don't need poker money to pay bills what kind of bankroll should I have? Whats a pretty standard number of BI's for a player that could eventually reload if they go completely broke, which I'd rather not do?

I know cash is completely different from tourneys so can you guys point me in the right direction for some basic strategies to use. Thanks in advance.
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Old 02-12-2015, 07:10 PM   #9012
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by TAJ1827 View Post
Hey guys I just have a couple questions. I'm mainly a live tournament player but I've been thinking about getting into cash games more just to hopefully add a little more vacation money to my bank account. I have a full time job that pays all of my bills. My goal is to start out at 1-2 or 1-3 and work my way up to 2-5 or higher. Since I don't need poker money to pay bills what kind of bankroll should I have? Whats a pretty standard number of BI's for a player that could eventually reload if they go completely broke, which I'd rather not do?

I know cash is completely different from tourneys so can you guys point me in the right direction for some basic strategies to use. Thanks in advance.
I'd start with 1k and make sure to not run bad (lol) unless you really don't want to "reload" your br, then you prob need 1k6-2k. 8-10 bi roll is plenty imo.
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Old 02-12-2015, 07:48 PM   #9013
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Completely dependent on your win rate. If you're a loser then it won't matter. If you're a slight winner you need a much bigger roll. If you crush well then you probably don't need as much to start.
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Old 02-12-2015, 08:05 PM   #9014
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Completely dependent on your win rate. If you're a loser then it won't matter. If you're a slight winner you need a much bigger roll. If you crush well then you probably don't need as much to start.
I don't have a clue what my win rate is since I've never really played these games for an amount of time that would give an accurate example.
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Old 02-12-2015, 08:06 PM   #9015
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I'd start with 1k and make sure to not run bad (lol) unless you really don't want to "reload" your br, then you prob need 1k6-2k. 8-10 bi roll is plenty imo.
Thanks, I was thinking higher then that more like 6k range or would that be over rolled?
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Old 02-12-2015, 08:39 PM   #9016
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Thanks, I was thinking higher then that more like 6k range or would that be over rolled?
If your goal is to "work your way up", 6k is way overrolled.

Of course, if you have that much spare cash, you can always cash it out and buy fancy stuff.

I personally keep my roll at around 4k with the occasional 2/5 shots when it runs (very rarely) but I havent had 1k+ downswing ever at 1/2, once at 2/5 and just went back to 1/2.
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Old 02-12-2015, 08:45 PM   #9017
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by TAJ1827 View Post
Thanks, I was thinking higher then that more like 6k range or would that be over rolled?

4k roll would be sufficient for 1/2. But u would be unlikely to go broke with a $2k roll if you planned to grow it. $6k would be a good roll for 1/3..
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:10 PM   #9018
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by TAJ1827 View Post
I don't have a clue what my win rate is since I've never really played these games for an amount of time that would give an accurate example.
well if u have never "played these games" How the hell can people advise u on a roll size. Most likely it will need to be infinite cuz u prolly will not beat them when you start
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:21 PM   #9019
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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If your goal is to "work your way up", 6k is way overrolled.

Of course, if you have that much spare cash, you can always cash it out and buy fancy stuff.

I personally keep my roll at around 4k with the occasional 2/5 shots when it runs (very rarely) but I havent had 1k+ downswing ever at 1/2, once at 2/5 and just went back to 1/2.
Thanks
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:05 PM   #9020
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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well if u have never "played these games" How the hell can people advise u on a roll size. Most likely it will need to be infinite cuz u prolly will not beat them when you start
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Old 02-13-2015, 02:26 AM   #9021
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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well if u have never "played these games" How the hell can people advise u on a roll size. Most likely it will need to be infinite cuz u prolly will not beat them when you start
So rude! It's a very fair question for a new person to ask how much to set aside to start playing 1/2. That said, you do make a good point.

TAJ may very well be a losing player and has a real possibility of burning through any mini-bankroll before he starts to establish a winrate.

TAJ, I was in the same spot when I started playing live poker last May. Long story short, I was stuck $2000 after the first couple months, then i was breakeven/slightly winning for a few months, and now I'm up over $10k overall (could be a fish on a heater).

It's takes a lot of time and hard work to establish any sort of winrate. I would keep a log and take diligent notes during every session, and post a lot of hands in the forums. If you get to the point where you are stuck 20 buy-ins even after studying a ton, there likely some serious mental game leaks and you may want to stop for a while.

A cheaper option is to practice microstakes on Bovada. Live is quite different but at least you can get the technicals down playing online.

Happy to chat in PM if you have further questions.
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Old 02-13-2015, 03:42 AM   #9022
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I'm in the wrong business.


It's even sicker that the game is easily beatable.

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Old 02-13-2015, 09:20 PM   #9023
TAJ1827
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Originally Posted by HH2010 View Post
So rude! It's a very fair question for a new person to ask how much to set aside to start playing 1/2. That said, you do make a good point.

TAJ may very well be a losing player and has a real possibility of burning through any mini-bankroll before he starts to establish a winrate.

TAJ, I was in the same spot when I started playing live poker last May. Long story short, I was stuck $2000 after the first couple months, then i was breakeven/slightly winning for a few months, and now I'm up over $10k overall (could be a fish on a heater).

It's takes a lot of time and hard work to establish any sort of winrate. I would keep a log and take diligent notes during every session, and post a lot of hands in the forums. If you get to the point where you are stuck 20 buy-ins even after studying a ton, there likely some serious mental game leaks and you may want to stop for a while.

A cheaper option is to practice microstakes on Bovada. Live is quite different but at least you can get the technicals down playing online.

Happy to chat in PM if you have further questions.
Thanks for the info. I might have to check out Bovada. I haven't played online poker since BF, how easy is it to deposit on the sites that allow Americans?
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Old 02-13-2015, 09:31 PM   #9024
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Thanks for the info. I might have to check out Bovada. I haven't played online poker since BF, how easy is it to deposit on the sites that allow Americans?
Bovada is very easy, just buy a netspend visa card and load it with up to $1,000. I suggest depositing $1k because you get $1k in free bonus money that way. Only your first deposit is matched up to 100%.

You can also use any visa card you have that is authorized for international purposes. Usually only bank issued Visa's allow this. Not vanilla. I would personally use a netspend prepaid to prevent any possibility of fraud since the processors are offshore.

Bovada is your best option for U.S. poker right now.
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Old 02-13-2015, 09:49 PM   #9025
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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So rude! It's a very fair question for a new person to ask how much to set aside to start playing 1/2. That said, you do make a good point.
honestly my man 99%+ % of people that try to gambool 4 a livin fail and there are multiple reasons for that. Saying that I want to play these games but I never have what kind of roll do I need needs some one like me to say whats up. For a lot of people in these forums the roll to play 1/2 is really important $. And trying to gamble with it is pure folly

I have been in the biz for a long time and have seen 100's crash and burn. I am currently in the process of watching one do this for the second time. And it will happen - he has zero chance. Its sad to watch but it happens EVERY day.

Thinking that hey I read 2p2 - I have a roll - these guys are all droolers - all I have to do is show up and print $ - is not how it really is

Just sayin
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