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Old 02-10-2015, 08:26 PM   #8951
aoFrantic
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Last 11 sessions of PLO, 9 of them 1/2 and one 2/5 and one 5/5 session I'm running at $135/hr and I'm not even running that great at 1/2 imo.
lol plo.
lol 50 hour samples.
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Old 02-10-2015, 08:38 PM   #8952
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by aoFrantic View Post
Last 11 sessions of PLO, 9 of them 1/2 and one 2/5 and one 5/5 session I'm running at $135/hr and I'm not even running that great at 1/2 imo.
lol plo.
lol 50 hour samples.
People are ****ing *AWFUL* at PLO. Can't read the board, can't read their hands, don't know that they don't make a flush with a single card, etc. (Although the inadvertent Blush will happen then.)

I see them stack off with all kinds of trash, call preflop raises with garbage, and generally punt of large stacks without any clue what they're doing. Any time you can convince a rec NLHE player to try PLO you should.

I love PLO.
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Old 02-10-2015, 08:43 PM   #8953
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ya - ok champ. this is just about as silly of a statement as they come.
Just my opinion, don't have to agree with it. I myself just know I could never survive mentally if I did not have a large bankroll.
And you all say this is an absurd number but then again how many good players have you seen go broke? I have used my method for over 6 years now and have never had to worry about my bankroll, or the bills it pays for
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:01 PM   #8954
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A 15k roll w/ 10k for living expenses is more than enough at 2/5 for someone who is an established winner. The only part that is cause for concern is that OP isn't an established winner at live yet. Some online players don't successfully transition to live for whatever reason although it's usually not a problem once they get settled in.
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:25 PM   #8955
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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A 15k roll w/ 10k for living expenses is more than enough at 2/5 for someone who is an established winner.

What if ur monthly nut is 20k.?
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:57 PM   #8956
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What if ur monthly nut is 20k.?
Get cheaper hookers and blow obv
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Old 02-11-2015, 02:01 AM   #8957
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Just put in more hours.
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Old 02-11-2015, 02:57 AM   #8958
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Originally Posted by Xsist View Post
Just my opinion, don't have to agree with it. I myself just know I could never survive mentally if I did not have a large bankroll.
And you all say this is an absurd number but then again how many good players have you seen go broke? I have used my method for over 6 years now and have never had to worry about my bankroll, or the bills it pays for
I apologize to you on behalf of all the peasants here who didn't have the common sense to bow down to your greatness.

I didn't know that bragging was still such a big thing in 2015...especially such grandiose bragging. Please accept our heartfelt apologies for daring to challenge a poker pro like yourself. We may be peasants who are not fit to eat crumbs from your table, but we should be appreciative peasants when we are in the presence of such greatness such as yours.
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Old 02-11-2015, 04:13 AM   #8959
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Originally Posted by spikeraw22 View Post
It could actually be higher variance to have a quick stop
Loss. If you're cutting volume in a good game when you could still have your edge then your accepting a 2 BI swing when staying longer might get back to even.

That's 100 percent fact.

I've been stopped out of many good games before. I also have stop wins because I don't want more than x% of my roll at risk in one session. I also play plo only so my risk is much higher.


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Old 02-11-2015, 03:10 PM   #8960
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Sure, a stop loss affects your EV in a game if you're a robot, but if you have mental problems chasing losses, it would be -EV to convince yourself to "keep playing because they are so bad"

I went from a marginal winner to a decent winner in the games I play just by blurting "CASH ME OUT" once my tilt-o-meter hit red
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:12 PM   #8961
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I went from a marginal winner to a decent winner in the games I play just by blurting "CASH ME OUT" once my tilt-o-meter hit red
Verbal is binding
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:22 PM   #8962
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

More butchering of what "variance" is ITT...

#1 stop losses have nothing to do with variance control.

#2 stopping at 1 buy in is in no way a factor in variance.

#3 Variance does not mean "down"... in fact, the whale that felts 100% of his sessions is perhaps the lowest variance player in the room. Consider that when thinking about "variance control strat"

**
A stop loss is there to prevent hero from playing when tilted. Having a hard stop loss is like handing over your keys before you start drinking... you make the decision before your decision making is impaired.

Stop losses are extremely valuable for the people that need them, yet pointless for people who don't need them. If you have a necessary stop loss - it does a great deal of work guarding your win rate. However, a 1 buy in stop loss is not productive in any regards for a good player. If you can't handle losing a buy in well, then your views on the game & strat are out of whack.
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:29 PM   #8963
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Apologies to whoever it was that volunteered that their stop loss is 1 buy-in. I am not picking on you.., I am correcting some of the posts that followed
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:47 PM   #8964
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Preach
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Old 02-11-2015, 04:00 PM   #8965
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by bip! View Post
More butchering of what "variance" is ITT...

#1 stop losses have nothing to do with variance control.

#2 stopping at 1 buy in is in no way a factor in variance.

#3 Variance does not mean "down"... in fact, the whale that felts 100% of his sessions is perhaps the lowest variance player in the room. Consider that when thinking about "variance control strat"

**
A stop loss is there to prevent hero from playing when tilted. Having a hard stop loss is like handing over your keys before you start drinking... you make the decision before your decision making is impaired.

Stop losses are extremely valuable for the people that need them, yet pointless for people who don't need them. If you have a necessary stop loss - it does a great deal of work guarding your win rate. However, a 1 buy in stop loss is not productive in any regards for a good player. If you can't handle losing a buy in well, then your views on the game & strat are out of whack.
U mad?
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Old 02-11-2015, 04:04 PM   #8966
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U mad?
Doesn't sound like it, he is making a lot of good points though.
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Old 02-11-2015, 04:14 PM   #8967
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Personally I don't have a stop-loss really. If I'm getting it in good but losing, I just brush it off. If I punt off a buy-in or two, then I will stop playing. I've gone on some pretty big swings in a single session (10-12BI). I find it helps me when I concentrate on the EV line instead of the green line. I've talked with a bunch of large-volume players, most of them have put in their most epic sessions when they have started off in the red.
Longest session I've ever played(100NL):
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Old 02-11-2015, 05:13 PM   #8968
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If you play perfect and don't tilt, but have no stop loss and consistently have majority or all of your roll in play, you will go broke multiple times.

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Old 02-11-2015, 05:27 PM   #8969
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by isplashcranberrys View Post
Personally I don't have a stop-loss really. If I'm getting it in good but losing, I just brush it off. If I punt off a buy-in or two, then I will stop playing. I've gone on some pretty big swings in a single session (10-12BI). I find it helps me when I concentrate on the EV line instead of the green line. I've talked with a bunch of large-volume players, most of them have put in their most epic sessions when they have started off in the red.
Longest session I've ever played(100NL):
you either had some sick bonuses running or you're paying like 5x your winnings in rake
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Old 02-11-2015, 06:09 PM   #8970
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by nutinsider View Post
If you play perfect and don't tilt, but have no stop loss and consistently have majority or all of your roll in play, you will go broke multiple times.

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If you're under-rolled nothing can help you. But you can be medium-rolled. Then a stop loss will prevent you from overcoming an early bad streak but it will also prevent you from experiencing a very long bad streak. Ideally I'd love to be way over-rolled, but if I had that much money, I probably wouldn't be playing LLSNL to help earn a living.
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Old 02-11-2015, 06:17 PM   #8971
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Originally Posted by Angrist View Post
People are ****ing *AWFUL* at PLO. Can't read the board, can't read their hands, don't know that they don't make a flush with a single card, etc. (Although the inadvertent Blush will happen then.)

I see them stack off with all kinds of trash, call preflop raises with garbage, and generally punt of large stacks without any clue what they're doing. Any time you can convince a rec NLHE player to try PLO you should.

I love PLO.
I ~only won $700 last night, losing $250 in the last orbit with AAxx and KK44ds, and this felt like I lost a stack. Idk what my true winrate is in this game and I'll never get enough volume to know, but I genuinely think ~$60 an hour is sustainable, especially considering over the past year and ~150 hours I'm nearly double this.
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Old 02-11-2015, 06:36 PM   #8972
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Originally Posted by bip! View Post
More butchering of what "variance" is ITT...

#1 stop losses have nothing to do with variance control.
True, but if you are dealt less hands per session (which is likely to happen if you have a 1 buy-in stop loss) then your variance is spread across a longer period of time and thus will have a great affect on the player (whether positive or negative). Yesterday I lost AIPF AK vs 55. 20 minutes later I felted 2 players including the player in the previous hand AIPF with QQ vs JJ vs XX. If I had a one buy-in stop loss it would have taken 2 sessions to accomplish what I did in 20 minutes. Without a stoploss I could lose 4 buyins in a session and subsequently win all those buy-ins back in the same session. With a 1 buy-in stop loss this would take a minimum of 5 sessions.

I'm not arguing for or against stop losses. Simply pointing out how stop losses are relevant when considering variance.
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Old 02-11-2015, 07:01 PM   #8973
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Originally Posted by DK Barrel View Post
you either had some sick bonuses running or you're paying like 5x your winnings in rake
yes to everything
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Old 02-11-2015, 07:08 PM   #8974
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Originally Posted by NeverLosesAtPoker View Post
True, but if you are dealt less hands per session (which is likely to happen if you have a 1 buy-in stop loss) then your variance is spread across a longer period of time and thus will have a great affect on the player (whether positive or negative). Yesterday I lost AIPF AK vs 55. 20 minutes later I felted 2 players including the player in the previous hand AIPF with QQ vs JJ vs XX. If I had a one buy-in stop loss it would have taken 2 sessions to accomplish what I did in 20 minutes. Without a stoploss I could lose 4 buyins in a session and subsequently win all those buy-ins back in the same session. With a 1 buy-in stop loss this would take a minimum of 5 sessions.



I'm not arguing for or against stop losses. Simply pointing out how stop losses are relevant when considering variance.

^ Not sure if serious?
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Old 02-11-2015, 07:19 PM   #8975
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Mr Bip is correct. What I should have said was using a stop loss might keep your variance from evening out for the night. Basically, you're narrowing the goal posts on a field goal attempt. It increases win rate for a mentally weak player and decreases it for a mentally strong player.


Note: it really decreases it for a mentally dilussional player.

Last edited by spikeraw22; 02-11-2015 at 07:19 PM. Reason: How's that Bip?
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