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Old 12-23-2014, 01:34 PM   #8351
troutbum97
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

$8/hr win rate at LIVE casino $1/$3 cash games vs mostly rec-fish??

IMO, need to improve win rate / fix leaks at $1/$3 before doing anything else.
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Old 12-23-2014, 07:55 PM   #8352
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie View Post
If he barely is a winner at $1/2, how do you expect him to be a $2/5 winner at a better clip?



That said, at $10k rolled up, I agree - take a shot. If you feel like you're not the best or 2nd best player at any point, get up. If you can't find another $2/5 table where you are the best or 2nd best player, step down to $1/2 again.

Yes, it's unlikely but possible just because the games play differently.
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Old 12-23-2014, 08:05 PM   #8353
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie View Post
If he barely is a winner at $1/2, how do you expect him to be a $2/5 winner at a better clip?

That said, at $10k rolled up, I agree - take a shot. If you feel like you're not the best or 2nd best player at any point, get up. If you can't find another $2/5 table where you are the best or 2nd best player, step down to $1/2 again.
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Yes, it's unlikely but possible just because the games play differently.
Move up where they respect your raises and bluffs, ldo.

In all seriousness, that's just senseless blabbering.
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Old 12-23-2014, 08:11 PM   #8354
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Move up where they respect your raises and bluffs, ldo.



In all seriousness, that's just senseless blabbering.

If you play optimally it is. However if you are only making $8/hr at 1/2 you aren't play optimally so it is certainly within the realm of possibility.
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Old 12-23-2014, 08:13 PM   #8355
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

So if you aren't playing optimally in 1/2, you should move up because higher stake will make you play optimally?

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Old 12-23-2014, 08:14 PM   #8356
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Not at all. But your suboptimal play at 1/2 may be less suboptimal at 2/5 or 5/10 :-)
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Old 12-23-2014, 08:15 PM   #8357
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Not at all. But your suboptimal play at 1/2 may be less suboptimal at 2/5 or 5/10 :-)
Nice trolling...
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Old 12-23-2014, 08:19 PM   #8358
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

My read of this is that he was making 8/hr for the last 120 hours, but has untracked wins that are likely higher than that

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Old 12-23-2014, 08:25 PM   #8359
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Originally Posted by NeverLosesAtPoker View Post
Not at all. But your suboptimal play at 1/2 may be less suboptimal at 2/5 or 5/10 :-)
Why do so many people troll on this forum. Admin should apply short term bans for clear trolling.

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Old 12-23-2014, 08:34 PM   #8360
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Nah he said 8/hr for the last ~250 hours. And he has another 150 hours untracked.

If I won $8/hr for last ~250 hours I would assume I either had or am going through a major downswing, or I'm in a huge breakeven stretch. I would be studying hard. Not trying to move up

Either u are not value betting enough, you have calling station tendencies, or u are trying to out aggro the table. Basic hand reading/ranging skills. and a fold button should get you close to $10/hr. But u really need to be near that $20/hr mark

Last edited by LoudPacquiao; 12-23-2014 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 12-23-2014, 08:36 PM   #8361
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Nah he said 8/hr for the last ~250 hours. And he has another 150 hours ubtracked.

If I won $8/hr for last ~250 hours I would assume I either had or am going through a major downswing, or I'm in a huge breakeven stretch. I would be studying hard. Not trying to move up
Ditto

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Old 12-23-2014, 08:38 PM   #8362
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Oh right I have it backward, but still his estimate is up 6k in 360 hours, which is closer to 17/hr and pretty close to crushing 1/2

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Old 12-24-2014, 01:06 AM   #8363
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Why do so many people troll on this forum. Admin should apply short term bans for clear trolling.

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It's not a clear troll. Running Uphill was doing poorly at 1/2 (lol sample size maybe) then was staked for 2/5 and immediately crushed. My results have been better in reggy 2/5 weekday games than weekend 2/5 games over a 3 year sample size. My results at 5/10 have been better than my results at 2/5.

Fact is he won't know for sure if he doesn't take a shot. I agree that it's not likely but it's certainly not unprecedented.
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Old 12-24-2014, 01:19 AM   #8364
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Hi. Me again.

First off, I'd like thank everyone for their feedback. I really do appreciate it.

Now on to my reply:

Yeah, my first 120ish hours I made $4,051. I'm positive about the dollar amount, but I was sloppy tracking my hours. I lost track of hours when I was in Vegas (where else?). I'd say the true hours are between 110-130 hours, but I can't say with 100% confidence. If you combine that with my last 236.5 hours where I made $2,014 you have something slightly above 17 dollars an hour. That said, I fully admit during my first 120 hours I was on a heater. Even at the time I knew I was hitting a lot of hands. Hell I binked a cash in a WSOP tourney.

Then:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudPacquiao View Post
If I won $8/hr for last ~250 hours I would assume I either had or am going through a major downswing
Something like this happened. Well, two things actually - I started running bad (although not epic bad) and I introduced more LAGGY style into my game that didn't payoff in the short term. The tables at the horseshoe play fairly weak tight, so I tried to push things to steal more money. I experimented with raising pre flop w lighter hands, light 3 betting and squeezing, thinner c-betting, etc. Frankly, when I started I was picking lousy spots and doing it too often. Fortunately, I didn't remove those aspects to my game completely, but now I'm better with timing and identifying better spots. So, I taught myself those basics, but it was an expensive lesson. I'm no LAG, but I'm now a better TAG. You should learn those skills at 1/2, right?

Oh and during this period I started to run in to a lot more hands, which forced me to stopping leveling myself and paying off on the river (although I might be a bit too nitty to river aggression now). So again, another expensive lesson that's made me a better player.

So where does that leave me? I've decided to take a shot. Well, not a shot, but a fact finding mission. I want to experience some 2/5 games to identify areas I need to work on. I'll take those lessons back to 1/2 and continue to work on my game. After I feel more comfortable I'll slowly work myself in to 2/5. Maybe I'll play it every other weekend something for a few months, then hopefully fully transition.

Thanks again for everyone's time!
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Old 12-24-2014, 08:46 AM   #8365
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

A LAG style could possibly work better at 2/5 than 1/2. 1/2 is a very multi-way and showdown heavy game with typically shallow stacks. And face it, the dollar amounts don't have much real life meaning most of the time. Now at 2/5 that style is up against fewer opponents and single bet sizes that suddenly start to have some meaning ($250+). It's not that they "respect your raises" it's that they respect the amount of money they might be losing by calling.

Of course it's way more likely the dude just has huge leaks.
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Old 12-24-2014, 12:14 PM   #8366
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I think it was mostly me picking bad spots. Live and learn.

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Old 12-24-2014, 01:27 PM   #8367
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A LAG style could possibly work better at 2/5 than 1/2. 1/2 is a very multi-way and showdown heavy game with typically shallow stacks. And face it, the dollar amounts don't have much real life meaning most of the time.
Why does the game have more shallow stacks if money means less?

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Now at 2/5 that style is up against fewer opponents and single bet sizes that suddenly start to have some meaning ($250+). It's not that they "respect your raises" it's that they respect the amount of money they might be losing by calling.
Correct, but let's not forget that it works both ways.
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Old 12-24-2014, 02:05 PM   #8368
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Why does the game have more shallow stacks if money means less?

Bigger games almost always play deeper, especially if they are part of a must move. In my experience there is also a lot of hit and running at smaller games so they tend to stay shallow. Bigger games also tend to have larger min buys.
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Old 12-24-2014, 02:16 PM   #8369
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradleyT View Post
A LAG style could possibly work better at 2/5 than 1/2. 1/2 is a very multi-way and showdown heavy game with typically shallow stacks. And face it, the dollar amounts don't have much real life meaning most of the time. Now at 2/5 that style is up against fewer opponents and single bet sizes that suddenly start to have some meaning ($250+). It's not that they "respect your raises" it's that they respect the amount of money they might be losing by calling.



Of course it's way more likely the dude just has huge leaks.

Good poker players adjust to the table dynamics. If the table requires showdowns to win a good player plays patiently not LAGtarded.

Saying you are better at higher stakes is effectively saying you are unable to adapt. And if you can't adapt to terrible players then you are unlikely to actually be a good poker player.
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Old 12-24-2014, 02:38 PM   #8370
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Good poker players adjust to the table dynamics. If the table requires showdowns to win a good player plays patiently not LAGtarded.

Saying you are better at higher stakes is effectively saying you are unable to adapt. And if you can't adapt to terrible players then you are unlikely to actually be a good poker player.
This.
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Old 12-24-2014, 02:42 PM   #8371
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by bwslim69 View Post
Good poker players adjust to the table dynamics. If the table requires showdowns to win a good player plays patiently not LAGtarded.

Saying you are better at higher stakes is effectively saying you are unable to adapt. And if you can't adapt to terrible players then you are unlikely to actually be a good poker player.
Couldn't have said it better. +1

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Old 12-24-2014, 04:27 PM   #8372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwslim69 View Post
Good poker players adjust to the table dynamics. If the table requires showdowns to win a good player plays patiently not LAGtarded.

Saying you are better at higher stakes is effectively saying you are unable to adapt. And if you can't adapt to terrible players then you are unlikely to actually be a good poker player.
That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. Of course an exploitative strategy and adjustments to table dynamics makes the most money at lower limits, when did I say otherwise?

Anyway, for an analogy of what I did say think about GTO play at $1/2 or at $25/50.
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Old 12-24-2014, 04:38 PM   #8373
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Why do people always point at unicorns and use them as argument?
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Old 12-24-2014, 04:49 PM   #8374
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradleyT View Post
That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. Of course an exploitative strategy and adjustments to table dynamics makes the most money at lower limits, when did I say otherwise?

Anyway, for an analogy of what I did say think about GTO play at $1/2 or at $25/50.
If you want to talk GTO, that was our COTM last month and likely still on one of the first few pages.

Ask about it there, but I can pretty much guarantee you are mis-applying the idea.
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Old 12-24-2014, 04:50 PM   #8375
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by BradleyT View Post
That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. Of course an exploitative strategy and adjustments to table dynamics makes the most money at lower limits, when did I say otherwise?



Anyway, for an analogy of what I did say think about GTO play at $1/2 or at $25/50.

lol
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