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Old 12-08-2014, 01:45 PM   #8226
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by spikeraw22 View Post
Looks like the graph is leveling out. Game is passing you by.
Ha, honestly if you take out that part from mid 2012 - all 2013 (where I, like, didn't lose), the graph isn't nearly as impressive. Has also started correcting itself with that recent 79 hours worth of hell.

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Old 12-08-2014, 01:49 PM   #8227
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This is the biggest that runs at your room, right?
I think I've heard pros are untaxed in the great white north, what do they take from amateurs?
Ya, pretty much. Once in a blue moon a bigger game goes (recently a 5/5 game has been going during some weeknights). I don't really have much desire in moving up since I can crush this game so easily, but if a consistently good bigger game ever starts happening I guess I'll have to look into it.

Casino winning are not taxed up here. Not exactly sure of what is "supposed" to happen if you are doing this as main source of income, but I do this as a side hobby so nothing to worry about.

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Old 12-08-2014, 02:29 PM   #8228
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GG you're not in Canada are you?

In the US if you make anything over $600 (i think that's the sum) You're responsible for reporting it. Most don't because it's not easily tracked, but if you make enough it'll start showing up and the IRS could possibly take notice and then **** hits fans and fans blow it all over you.
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Old 12-08-2014, 02:30 PM   #8229
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

outstanding work gg. very well done!
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Old 12-08-2014, 02:31 PM   #8230
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Confirmed in Canada. Parts unknown though.

Gum,Saskatchewan,yeah,that'sit,Saskatchewan...brrr ,sureiscoldhereandsnowyinthewheatfieldsG
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Old 12-08-2014, 02:32 PM   #8231
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outstanding work gg. very well done!
Thanks Squid!

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Old 12-08-2014, 02:32 PM   #8232
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So you must play with Ngraneau all the time right, cuz there can only be like one game going in Canada.
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Old 12-08-2014, 02:35 PM   #8233
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Yeah, I always sit to Danny's left (I call him Danny), but I think I'm losing hearing in my right ear.

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Old 12-08-2014, 02:41 PM   #8234
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Thanks Squid!

Gwasn'tworkthough:was100%allfunG

just read yer hashtag...I know u are a rec playa...but this is some serious kick ass work and should be inspiring to anyone trying to take poker seriously. U absolutely destroy this game with virtually no variance. Several year sample and just a continuous up trend - zero tilt factor - solid play and the classic CAN I attitude (constant and never-ending improvement)
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Old 12-08-2014, 02:44 PM   #8235
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Don't forget the luck part.

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Old 12-08-2014, 02:54 PM   #8236
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Almost went to Regina for the little series a few weeks back, heard about the lol NLO game and the super soft 5/10 action tho.
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Old 12-08-2014, 03:43 PM   #8237
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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GG you're not in Canada are you?

In the US if you make anything over $600 (i think that's the sum) You're responsible for reporting it. Most don't because it's not easily tracked, but if you make enough it'll start showing up and the IRS could possibly take notice and then **** hits fans and fans blow it all over you.
Yea, I've wondered about this for a while. Hiding $600/yr is stupidly easy. Even $3-4k/yr isn't really all that difficult if you've got other healthy income and a lot of cash expenses (although I wouldn't want to try to hide $4k/yr only making $15k in my regular job).

Anyone have anecdotal experience with how much they've won without reporting, how much got them audited or harassed by the IRS, and how difficult dealing with them was?

I think I'm probably stuck reporting this year anyway though, on taxes, on some run-good.
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Old 12-08-2014, 03:58 PM   #8238
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Yea, I've wondered about this for a while. Hiding $600/yr is stupidly easy. Even $3-4k/yr isn't really all that difficult if you've got other healthy income and a lot of cash expenses (although I wouldn't want to try to hide $4k/yr only making $15k in my regular job).

Anyone have anecdotal experience with how much they've won without reporting, how much got them audited or harassed by the IRS, and how difficult dealing with them was?

I think I'm probably stuck reporting this year anyway though, on taxes, on some run-good.
I have a lot of experience on it obv
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Old 12-08-2014, 03:59 PM   #8239
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Listen guys, if you want to use your poker winnings to buy nice things; report your income to the IRS. Don't be an idiot.

Also; seek out a tax professional to get you the best deductions and tax credits if you work full time but gamble on the side.

I am just a CPA in training but trust me on this.
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Old 12-08-2014, 04:19 PM   #8240
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Listen guys, if you want to use your poker winnings to buy nice things; report your income to the IRS. Don't be an idiot.

Also; seek out a tax professional to get you the best deductions and tax credits if you work full time but gamble on the side.

I am just a CPA in training but trust me on this.
Obv given that this is my business I would highly encourage you to seek appropriate counsel. Most of the advice you will find on 2p2 with respect to taxes is worthless. People tell you to ignore it or file XX way; most have no clue wtf they are talking about. I can tell you that 95% of the audits/IRS issues my clients run into are because they tried to save a buck or did something their buddy/cousin/sister-in-law/etc said they could do. Or they stuck their head in the sand and simply elected to ignore it.
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Old 12-08-2014, 04:23 PM   #8241
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If you report it, you'll likely deal with some kind of hassle. Thanks to BWS for helping me navigate mine. But if you make the attempt you can avoid much of the hassle. You also can spend your money freely without having to worry about the government coming after you, which once you start talking about cash over a few thousand is a pretty big deal.
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Old 12-08-2014, 05:04 PM   #8242
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I've already got a tax guy. Reported a BBJ table share for $4k a couple of years ago when I got a W-2G. Didn't require any other documentation. Not sure how much he knows about reporting other winnings.

Spike, did you just straight up claim "I won $12k gambling"? Or did you have to provide them a log in the initial filing?

I've got a personal idea about what % of my total income I'm comfortable not reporting, and some idea from my tax guy what's worth bothering with too. Just looking for some other experience.
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Old 12-08-2014, 05:14 PM   #8243
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There is an actual place to report other income and you can check gambling winnings. Fed return you itemize losing sessions. State sodomizes you by only letting you claim total wins.

So, you claim your total of winning sessions and itemize your losing sessions, except in Michigan where they say **** you and don't let you itemize the losses.

For me it's mostly an integrity thing. I just would rather pay tax on my actual income and not worry about hiding it. I have enough income to handle the extra tax anyway.
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Old 12-08-2014, 05:18 PM   #8244
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So, you claim your total of winning sessions and itemize your losing sessions, except in Michigan where they say **** you and don't let you itemize the losses.
Holy **** you to Michigan. One more thing that sucks about living here.
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Old 12-08-2014, 05:19 PM   #8245
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true, but we also have a much healthier poker scene than most states so its a trade off
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Old 12-08-2014, 05:55 PM   #8246
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Obv given that this is my business I would highly encourage you to seek appropriate counsel. Most of the advice you will find on 2p2 with respect to taxes is worthless. People tell you to ignore it or file XX way; most have no clue wtf they are talking about. I can tell you that 95% of the audits/IRS issues my clients run into are because they tried to save a buck or did something their buddy/cousin/sister-in-law/etc said they could do. Or they stuck their head in the sand and simply elected to ignore it.
glad we see eye to eye bruh.
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Old 12-11-2014, 05:38 PM   #8247
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Any PLO guys frequent this thread? There is pretty much nothing on 2+2 with regards to sustainable live PLO winrates so I cam here.



I transitioned into live PLO earlier this year after several years of playing live NL as a sole source of income at 2/5 and 5/10. So far its gone very well but I really have no grasp for what my winrate should really be after say 3,000 hours of play. 90% of this was 2/5 or 1/2/5 Pot Limit Omaha games with a 500 max. The other 10% was 5/5 or 5/10 PLO with $1k+ games.

I have never seen anyone post a significant sample (2,000+ hours) of their live PLO winrate anywhere on this site. It seems like dark territory with few answers. Assuming I am pretty much top of the chain and crushing this game, what could my hourly be?
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Old 12-11-2014, 06:16 PM   #8248
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Any PLO guys frequent this thread? There is pretty much nothing on 2+2 with regards to sustainable live PLO winrates so I cam here.



I transitioned into live PLO earlier this year after several years of playing live NL as a sole source of income at 2/5 and 5/10. So far its gone very well but I really have no grasp for what my winrate should really be after say 3,000 hours of play. 90% of this was 2/5 or 1/2/5 Pot Limit Omaha games with a 500 max. The other 10% was 5/5 or 5/10 PLO with $1k+ games.

I have never seen anyone post a significant sample (2,000+ hours) of their live PLO winrate anywhere on this site. It seems like dark territory with few answers. Assuming I am pretty much top of the chain and crushing this game, what could my hourly be?


Some things for you. Not sure how relevant they are cause sample size stuff but here it goes.

My.sample is around 3100 hours. 2200 hours or so are live plo. Win observed winrate is 100+ per hour. My winrate for exclusively plo is 180 per hour.

My observed standard deviation is about 13.5x my winrate.

I'm taking rest year off cause.im in the.middle of my worst downswing ever and I dont.like poker right now to be.honest.

Lost 48k last 5 weeks. Before this my biggest drawdown was 32k. Before that 16k. My longest break even stretch ever was like 500 hours. My longest break even stretch since I shifted to plo exclusively was 350 hours.

I normally have 2 losing months a year or so.

Most of the games I play are home games. The bring in is 25. There are no blinds and.the button has a mandatory 25 straddle.

It's a great game. But you need a lot of money to play it consistnetly. I'd say 200k is a minimum for my game.

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Old 12-11-2014, 06:25 PM   #8249
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I imagine the sample for PLO needs to be quite a bit larger than for NLH do to the higher variance and smaller edges. Other than that, I have no freaking clue what your win rate should be. I tend to think that crushing PLO is a lower win rate than crushing NLH due to it being way harder to get all in with complete dominance like you can over and over in NLH.

That being said, I've seen unbelievably bad PLO live. We're much earlier on the curve for popular PLO in the population. It's tougher to be super horrible at PLO, but a lot tougher to be super good too.
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Old 12-11-2014, 07:00 PM   #8250
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I think 4-5000 hours is a good sample but people play live plo really poorly. Especially home games so who knows.

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