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Old 10-09-2014, 02:01 PM   #8001
Koss
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Poker messes with my head in that my two goals are to make money and take on and beat the best players, and those two goals are at odds with each other.

The idea of bum hunting and seeing whales as just walking atms has never sat well with me. I guess I enjoy the challenge of figuring out how to get someones money by playing optimally against their style, but everytime i think "that guy sucks, i want to play against him" i feel like i need to take a shower afterwards.
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Old 10-09-2014, 02:03 PM   #8002
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss View Post
Poker messes with my head in that my two goals are to make money and take on and beat the best players, and those two goals are at odds with each other.

The idea of bum hunting and seeing whales as just walking atms has never sat well with me. I guess I enjoy the challenge of figuring out how to get someones money by playing optimally against their style, but everytime i think "that guy sucks, i want to play against him" i feel like i need to take a shower afterwards.
You can figure out how to get a whales money by playing optimally against his/her style
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Old 10-09-2014, 02:03 PM   #8003
n0npareil
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Question for the grinders:

Logged atleast 1800 hours at 1/2 w/ a decent winrate. Currently on a 2k downswing the last 100 hours. Is this too big of a downswing for 1/2 with 300 max buy in?
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Old 10-09-2014, 02:07 PM   #8004
Koss
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Duke0424 View Post
You can figure out how to get a whales money by playing optimally against his/her style
Im aware of this. But specifically seeking them out and trying to jesus seat them feels a bit wrong.
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Old 10-09-2014, 02:08 PM   #8005
Koss
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by n0npareil View Post
Question for the grinders:

Logged atleast 1800 hours at 1/2 w/ a decent winrate. Currently on a 2k downswing the last 100 hours. Is this too big of a downswing for 1/2 with 300 max buy in?
What is decent? Its on the high side but not impossible.
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Old 10-09-2014, 02:10 PM   #8006
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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What is decent? Its on the high side but not impossible.
10bb/hr
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Old 10-09-2014, 02:10 PM   #8007
Duke0424
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by n0npareil View Post
Question for the grinders:

Logged atleast 1800 hours at 1/2 w/ a decent winrate. Currently on a 2k downswing the last 100 hours. Is this too big of a downswing for 1/2 with 300 max buy in?
Yea that happens sometimes. Don't worry




Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss View Post
Im aware of this. But specifically seeking them out and trying to jesus seat them feels a bit wrong.
Why
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Old 10-09-2014, 02:12 PM   #8008
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by n0npareil View Post
Question for the grinders:

Logged atleast 1800 hours at 1/2 w/ a decent winrate. Currently on a 2k downswing the last 100 hours. Is this too big of a downswing for 1/2 with 300 max buy in?
I don't think so. I've punted off $1000-1500 in a weekend before at $1/2. If you get into a juicy game and lose a couple of big pots it's easy to burn through that kind of money.

100 hours isn't that long, and $2k isn't that many buy ins. Hell, it's three big hands where you get stacks in.

That being said, it's also very easy to work a bunch of bad play into a downswing to compound it. Calling off light because you're tility and trying to get even, staying too long chasing losses and playing tired, and even folding too tight because you don't want to get another stack in and possibly lose it. Take a step back and analyze it. Every downswing I've looked at has had at least 25% bad play.
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Old 10-09-2014, 02:20 PM   #8009
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by n0npareil View Post
Question for the grinders:

Logged atleast 1800 hours at 1/2 w/ a decent winrate. Currently on a 2k downswing the last 100 hours. Is this too big of a downswing for 1/2 with 300 max buy in?
I'm currently going thru the exact same thing. Played almost to ~1800 hours of live 1/3NL with an easy peasy ~10bb/hr winrate, cruising along as normal (even on a 7 session winstreak), and then out of nowhere, BAM!, last ~130 hours I've been in the middle of a downswing that at it's peak reached almost 10 BIs (955bbs). Currently working my way out of it (about half way back out of the hole).

Main problem is that I'm not a day-in-day-out grinder, so for a once-a-week rec player, these things can span months.

Gso,yeah,****happensG
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Old 10-09-2014, 02:33 PM   #8010
Angrist
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Koss View Post
Im aware of this. But specifically seeking them out and trying to jesus seat them feels a bit wrong.
Hell, if I could GPS tag a couple of the guys I've seen around I would do it. Getting in good with the local floormen sometimes gets you a text when there's a really juicy game happening too.
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Old 10-09-2014, 02:40 PM   #8011
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss View Post
Poker messes with my head in that my two goals are to make money and take on and beat the best players, and those two goals are at odds with each other.

The idea of bum hunting and seeing whales as just walking atms has never sat well with me. I guess I enjoy the challenge of figuring out how to get someones money by playing optimally against their style, but everytime i think "that guy sucks, i want to play against him" i feel like i need to take a shower afterwards.
In a raked game, it might be impossible (or close to it) to beat the best players.

Geveryonewouldbealoser,imoG
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Old 10-09-2014, 02:44 PM   #8012
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Angrist View Post
Hell, if I could GPS tag a couple of the guys I've seen around I would do it.
FYI to any reckless guys considering this stupid idea, it is a crime to GPS tag anyone's car except your own. (so you could legally GPS tag your own car to track where you wife is going in your car, but that's basically it)
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Old 10-09-2014, 02:45 PM   #8013
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATsai View Post
FYI to any reckless guys considering this stupid idea, it is a crime to GPS tag anyone's car except your own. (so you could legally GPS tag your own car to track where you wife is going in your car, but that's basically it)
But they did it on breaking bad
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Old 10-09-2014, 03:10 PM   #8014
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATsai View Post
FYI to any reckless guys considering this stupid idea, it is a crime to GPS tag anyone's car except your own. (so you could legally GPS tag your own car to track where you wife is going in your car, but that's basically it)

Do you know this from experience?
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Old 10-09-2014, 03:10 PM   #8015
Angrist
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATsai View Post
FYI to any reckless guys considering this stupid idea, it is a crime to GPS tag anyone's car except your own. (so you could legally GPS tag your own car to track where you wife is going in your car, but that's basically it)
I'd rather have one of those ear-tags like they use on bears instead
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:05 PM   #8016
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

You are not just playing against other players, you are playing against variance and playing against yourself (mental game). Not to mention the House and Dealers which always come out ahead.

For these reasons I don't think the idea of seeking out weak players is particularly dishonorable. It's just maximizing your edge (which isn't as big as you might think) in an already challenging game.

Even the worst players will routinely suck out on you for large sums of money, or end up beating you multiple times with the top of a very wide range. So can't feel too bad about playing them.
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:18 PM   #8017
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
I'm currently going thru the exact same thing. Played almost to ~1800 hours of live 1/3NL with an easy peasy ~10bb/hr winrate, cruising along as normal (even on a 7 session winstreak), and then out of nowhere, BAM!, last ~130 hours I've been in the middle of a downswing that at it's peak reached almost 10 BIs (955bbs). Currently working my way out of it (about half way back out of the hole).

Main problem is that I'm not a day-in-day-out grinder, so for a once-a-week rec player, these things can span months.

Gso,yeah,****happensG

GG,

Are you willing to share how you're run bad has affected your overall bb/hr? I started off my tracking with run bad and have just recently gotten my overall over the 10bb/hr mark (on much less hours). I understand if you don't want to share.
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:20 PM   #8018
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I can understand a certain reasoning though.

Bust someone's entire poker br, you can feel like a boss from that.

Bust someone's checking account and rent payment, might make you feel some type of way.

With the worst players it's likelier to be the latter imo
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:27 PM   #8019
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Does the Graph Mean Anything?

Does this graph of nearly 10k hands speak to my potential as a live player? I'm trying to "simulate" what type of bankroll swings I should expect, and though live/online are obviously different games, I'm still curious as 10k hands in live poker is ALOT for the pace I play... (I play .01/.02 specifically to practice and have no aspirations of being an online player...)

26/18/7 are my current stats (This is predominantly 6man play, my live play is 9man)


[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:33 PM   #8020
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If someone sits down at the same table as me, they're trying to take money from me. I'm going to everything I can to take every dollar that they happen to put onto the table. Zero remorse.
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:37 PM   #8021
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Re: Does the Graph Mean Anything?

Can't see image, but a live winrate is like 20bb/100 (if not higher), so a winrate / swings will never be comparable to online.
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:47 PM   #8022
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Submerged View Post
GG,

Are you willing to share how you're run bad has affected your overall bb/hr? I started off my tracking with run bad and have just recently gotten my overall over the 10bb/hr mark (on much less hours). I understand if you don't want to share.
Just computed it on PokerJournal thanks to filters (note this is all live 1/3 NL):

Before downswing: $30.35/hr (10.12 bb/hr) over 1773:55 hours
Current overall: $27.47 (9.16 bb/hr) over 1905:20 hours

So the recent 130ish hours downswing has produced a $2.88/hr hit to my overall winrate (i.e. I've lost ~1 bb/hr off my overall winrate in that time).

GopenbookG
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Old 10-09-2014, 06:36 PM   #8023
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Thanx!
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:13 PM   #8024
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

So after wasting 2 months online I am deciding to go back to playing live(im in between jobs and have lots of free time).

Ive had some decent success the last 2 years mostly playing weekends at a local casino that uses poker tek tables, and occasionally going to Niagara falls to play some 5/10.
My winnings are roughly (from what I recall my poker journal crashed in ios update).
10k(1/2) 20k(2/5, 5/5) 5k(5/10) with hourlys of roughly 40$-1/2, 20$-2/5$, 90$-5/5, and 70$-5/10

After a europe trip and some real life expenses I cant play 5/5 and 5/10 for a few weeks.

Im hoping to put in 45~ hrs a week at my local casino(until I get a job), and now my question would be what is the best way to build up again?

Im pretty sure tons of the 5/5 regulars would stake me if I talked to any of them. But I think it would be better for me to play on my own $ and just grind hardcore.

Usually my local casino has 4-6 1/2 tables at peak time that has a 300$ max buyin that are pokertek(so 50-60 hands an hour).

And usually 2 2/5s(500 max) on the poker tek tables as well.

So my question is simply what would be the best way to build up again?

In the past I would table select alot at 1/2 and it worked out well for me. I believe that my hourly is sustainable but some people have told me that it isn't. I believe I could get 30-40 at 2/5 this time around after knowing most of the players now.
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Old 10-10-2014, 07:28 AM   #8025
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by homerdash View Post
I can understand a certain reasoning though.

Bust someone's entire poker br, you can feel like a boss from that.

Bust someone's checking account and rent payment, might make you feel some type of way.

With the worst players it's likelier to be the latter imo

Maybe poker isnt the game for someone with guilt issues.
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