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Old 07-13-2014, 02:50 AM   #7576
eldiesel
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenT07891 View Post
I'm still properly rolled for 2/5 and have a stable job.
Keep playing.

Rolled is really all you need. I'd say always take the high variance route if it means a higher EV, never care about downswings, never care about suckouts, etc. It's just that all of those are built on a foundation of being properly rolled. You'll care a lot if you're shot-taking and/or under-rolled. But if you have the $, just keep playing.
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Old 07-13-2014, 04:11 AM   #7577
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Re: Should I stay or Should I Go? BR mgmt questions

The skill factor goes down because the stack to pot ratio is lower making decisions less complicated. For example you're stacking AA pretty much on any flop when the SPR is < 1 but when the SPR is 15 you've got decisions.

And how thick your roll is depends on how easily you can redeposit if you run bad. I have a very thin roll that I can add to easily so I'd rather invest my winnings rather than keep them locked up in my roll.
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Old 07-13-2014, 04:19 AM   #7578
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Angrist View Post
I like the others suggestions about cashing out $500 at even thousand increments.

But one of the things that I do as a serious rec player is cash out small bills.

When I first started playing I'd stick around paying blinds or playing bull**** hands and leave when I had a stack evenly divisible by either $50 or $100. Bad idea. Now I just cash out whenever it's time to leave. I take the small bills ($20's and below) and stick them in my other pocket for my life roll. Win or lose, a couple of bucks are getting transferred out. Keeps me from going to the ATM for lunch money. It's worked pretty well for 3-4 years now.
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Originally Posted by dunderstron! View Post
Hey all,

A few days ago my bankroll finally reached $6,000, which is a nice 20 bullets for my 1/3 game. I've had this goal for a while and it feels really good to reach it even though I took 290 hours to make $5,000 (lol).

At this point I want to take out half of my winnings but I'm not sure how to do it. Obviously I can't just take half from every winning session because I might win $800 and then lose $600 which would take $200 from my roll. Right now I'm considering taking half of my profits out only when I have a winning session that puts my bankroll in virgin territory. That seems obnoxious to track but it would be doable.

So yeah, I'm going for some system that 1) keeps my bankroll growing, if slower, and 2) gives me money for paying off loans and ish. How do the rest of yall "serious rec" players do this?
A) Congrats on making the $5K. Doesn't matter if it took you 290 hours or 2900 hours. You are showing a profit and that is something to be proud of. That's $17 per hour, which isn't great ($30/hr is; $20+ hr. is probably what you should be striving for, but you have to play the style that is most comfortable for you right now; that might mean $17/hr is the max you can attain).

B) I like what the poster above says and I also do that. Just collect the $100s you cash out for and use the rest for expenses, fun, etc. If you want to balance it out and you lose, say, $430 in a night, take $30 from the life roll and put it into the poker roll ... and so on.
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Old 07-13-2014, 04:30 AM   #7579
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Re: Should I stay or Should I Go? BR mgmt questions

you should stay. it's not like you have 50 percent of your roll on the table. you have 1/13 of your buyins plus some profit.
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Old 07-13-2014, 04:58 AM   #7580
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Re: Should I stay or Should I Go? BR mgmt questions

Don't think about it until you have 1/4 of your BR on the table, and don't worry about it until you have 1/3 your BR on the table. But these considerations should only come into play if you are likely to get into pots where your entire stack is in jeopardy, meaning everyone has you covered. Since the fish only have the 100bb you buy in for it shouldn't be an issue, unless getting into pots with the reg is completely unavoidable.

Also, how good is that game compared to the average game you play in? The more likely you are to find a similar game tomorrow the more likely you should be to leave.
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:36 AM   #7581
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Re: Should I stay or Should I Go? BR mgmt questions

Quote:
The skill factor goes down because the stack to pot ratio is lower making decisions less complicated. For example you're stacking AA pretty much on any flop when the SPR is < 1 but when the SPR is 15 you've got decisions.
point taken, though only in the context of a pot that was inflated pre...
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Old 07-13-2014, 06:57 AM   #7582
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Re: Should I stay or Should I Go? BR mgmt questions

If the game is as good as you say it is...obvious answer is stay, just set a stop loss. If you are worried about the money on the table,quit and find a day job...bartending etc...
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:22 AM   #7583
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Re: Should I stay or Should I Go? BR mgmt questions

A very smart poster on this forum advocates for not having more than 10% of your bank roll on the table at any one point if you need the money for other things / if you can't replenish it from other sources.

And this is a very good idea.
So, the real question OP is what is the nature of your bankroll?

Are you playing for fun? Is it for a job? Can you take money from your life roll to augment your poker income? Do you feel comfortable playing deep?

Also, if the deep stacked reg left the game already, and the next biggest stack is 100bb deep, then you are not playing the full 300+ bb stack. You are only playing as deep as the next deepest person. So you still only have 100bb effective on the table.

Also, you now have 20% of your entire bank roll on the table. How are you going to feel if you loose the whole thing? Are you going to be mad? Is it going to affect your ability to play?


If you need the money for something, get up.
If you are playing just for fun, then play for fun.


Either way, just remember that if you have this much of your bank roll on the table at any time your chances of going completely broke sky rocket in the long run.
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:35 AM   #7584
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Re: Should I stay or Should I Go? BR mgmt questions

Cant you get up, cash out, grab dinner, then come back & rebut w ur initial buy-in?
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Old 07-13-2014, 11:24 AM   #7585
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Re: Should I stay or Should I Go? BR mgmt questions

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Originally Posted by wheydacheese View Post
confused...skill factor rises postflop and subsequent streets, this is where you can force your Vs to make bigger, more lucrative mistakes, obviously as the hero you can make significantly more impactful mistakes as well.

The skill factor definitely goes down after you start building the pot up. From that point on heavy action dominates. At that point money goes in the middle and there's little skill left over to be proud of. ...lol...lol
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Old 07-13-2014, 02:44 PM   #7586
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by IbelieveinChipKelly View Post
Congrats on making the $5K. Doesn't matter if it took you 290 hours or 2900 hours. You are showing a profit and that is something to be proud of. That's $17 per hour, which isn't great ($30/hr is; $20+ hr. is probably what you should be striving for, but you have to play the style that is most comfortable for you right now; that might mean $17/hr is the max you can attain).
It has nothing to do with style. Play LAG if that's the best way to beat the table, play TAG if that's the best strategy. Don't play LAG/TAG just because you call yourself that type of player. If you're playing TAG no matter what, you're leaving something out there.

The city matters a lot though. Don't say $17/hour isn't good enough. I'm pretty sure <5 guys break $17/hour where I play, there just isn't the action to support a higher winrate. In LV, $17/hour would be bad, in Iowa, $17/hour is awesome, we don't know where he plays though.
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:39 AM   #7587
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by BenT07891 View Post
Should I quit $2/5?
Cliffs: maybe?

Take it from someone who loses lots of money in this game often, drop down to 1/2. It is so relaxing to drop stakes, it's good for your poker mindset. It also helps reinforce basic concepts because at that level we know to only bet/fold and rarely bluff. At the higher stakes we start to get fancier because we are adjusting to slightly more spewy villains, but oftentimes we can get too fancy.

I usually have a rule of a 4bi drop = 1/2 play until I've profited 4bi in 1/2. It has nothing to do with financial gain / loss or where my roll is at, it's all about the mindset.

Being good at losing is one of the final deciding factors between those who make it and those who don't. Alot of people think it's how good at math, or how good at reading people, or lol "feel". But being a good loser in this game is probably the single most important factor in the separation from the flame outs and the winners.

I can say you are in dangerous territory when you are vigorously seeing how far ahead you were in hands.

The other night I dropped 2K in 5 hours playing what I'm pretty sure was the best poker of my life. Two 2 outers and one 4 outed, all all in otf or ott with me holding the nuts. Those who go "ZOMG I was a 95% favorite WTF" fail to see that they themselves are pointing out that they do in fact lose in those hands. In fact they lose 5% of the time. If you can't handle that or it affects your emotions negatively then you should quit the game. Not a dig, I think about quitting all the time.

Variance is the Reaper in this game, but if you understand her for what she truly is, you will be in flow with all that is. Instead of fearing her, you will be indifferent to her actions, and smile with every flick of the card.

Last edited by Avaritia; 07-14-2014 at 11:44 AM. Reason: God what a wall
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:41 AM   #7588
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
700bb is nothing...that's like two bad days.
Also, this.
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Old 07-14-2014, 12:18 PM   #7589
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenT07891 View Post
Hi all, very serious question here:

Should I quit $2/5?

I've lost about 3500 over about 50 hours, including losing the last 4 sessions in a row.

I know I've been running bad, but I also know I made some mistakes. The value of my mistakes in some spots was just slightly -EV, but the result every time was the full loss. EX: I play a $1000 pot where the EV of my shove (with the losing hand) turned out to be about -$160, but the result was I lost $500 on the hand.

I played 2 large pots where I had 70%+ equity and lost each. Had my hand held up, I'd be down about 2500 total.

I've flopped zero sets and must have seen at least 30 flops with pocket pairs.

Is a 3500 downswing too much to be attributed to variance? Should I move back down to $1/2? FWIW, I can beat $1/2 and my win rate at 1/2 recently has been higher than ever.

I'm still properly rolled for 2/5 and have a stable job.
Why do you play poker?

Answering that honestly might help give you your answer.

GgoodluckG
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Old 07-14-2014, 12:59 PM   #7590
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by BenT07891 View Post
Hi all, very serious question here:

Should I quit $2/5?

I've lost about 3500 over about 50 hours, including losing the last 4 sessions in a row.

I know I've been running bad, but I also know I made some mistakes. The value of my mistakes in some spots was just slightly -EV, but the result every time was the full loss. EX: I play a $1000 pot where the EV of my shove (with the losing hand) turned out to be about -$160, but the result was I lost $500 on the hand.

I played 2 large pots where I had 70%+ equity and lost each. Had my hand held up, I'd be down about 2500 total.

I've flopped zero sets and must have seen at least 30 flops with pocket pairs.

Is a 3500 downswing too much to be attributed to variance? Should I move back down to $1/2? FWIW, I can beat $1/2 and my win rate at 1/2 recently has been higher than ever.

I'm still properly rolled for 2/5 and have a stable job.
50 hours is a lol-small sample size, as we all know.

I like reading your forum posts for the math that gets worked out ... but based on those I think you suffer from a lot of FPS. You get into a lot of *really* thin spots where your equity is very dependent on your opponent's range. And if you're not ranging them exactly right the slightly +EV spots may not really be.

I'd consider backing off a little bit and avoiding the high variance / thin edge spots for a bit while you're still adjusting to $2/5.
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:28 PM   #7591
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Hey guys,

starting in august i will start playing live poker in london. I ve been a good winner at 50nl fullring online for a while but got tired and now I will give live a serious shot.

I will have a 2000 pound bankroll but basically if I bust this bankroll I will have to quit poker for a very long time. I have all living expenses seperate and paid for and poker isnt my way of making money, I am a student.

My question for you guys if you could help me out is what would you think is reasonable with the least chance of going broke. I really love the game and losing this br and not playing poker for a long time would be tough. In august I will play at least 250 hours, do you think I should start at 1/1 or just jump in at 1/2, I am very confident that my game is much better then most players playing at that pool but I am not well aware of the variance of live poker.

Any advice would be great, cheers guys!
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:36 PM   #7592
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Hey guys,

starting in august i will start playing live poker in london. I ve been a good winner at 50nl fullring online for a while but got tired and now I will give live a serious shot.

I will have a 2000 pound bankroll but basically if I bust this bankroll I will have to quit poker for a very long time. I have all living expenses seperate and paid for and poker isnt my way of making money, I am a student.

My question for you guys if you could help me out is what would you think is reasonable with the least chance of going broke. I really love the game and losing this br and not playing poker for a long time would be tough. In august I will play at least 250 hours, do you think I should start at 1/1 or just jump in at 1/2, I am very confident that my game is much better then most players playing at that pool but I am not well aware of the variance of live poker.

Any advice would be great, cheers guys!
Start at whatever level you feel most comfortable

If priority #1 is dont go busto then obviously play 1/1
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:41 PM   #7593
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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If priority #1 is dont go busto then obviously play 1/1
This.

You will have 20x 100bb buy ins.

Any time you get above 2,500 take 100bb shots at 1/2 assuming the games look good and you feel comfortable playing live.

Once you get above 3 or 3.5k I would switch to 1/2 only assuming you feel like you are making good decisions.
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:41 PM   #7594
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Duke0424 View Post
Start at whatever level you feel most comfortable

If priority #1 is dont go busto then obviously play 1/1
thanks, but apparently the rake at 1/1 is 10% caped at 5p which isnt very profitable,

and in terms of priority I would say priority #1 is making money, and #2 is not going broke.
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:42 PM   #7595
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thanks, but apparently the rake at 1/1 is 10% caped at 5p which isnt very profitable,

and in terms of priority I would say priority #1 is making money, and #2 is not going broke.
If 1/1 isn't a profitable game then why are you even asking about it lol
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:44 PM   #7596
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I am asking for advice from people who have much more experience then me in live poker. I dont know for a fact that a 10% game capped at 5p isnt profitable. If you came to ask me advice about online poker I wouldnt be "loling" you arogant prick.
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:54 PM   #7597
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I am asking for advice from people who have much more experience then me in live poker. I dont know for a fact that a 10% game capped at 5p isnt profitable. If you came to ask me advice about online poker I wouldnt be "loling" you arogant prick.
Well you did say the game "isn't very profitable"
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:56 PM   #7598
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I am asking for advice from people who have much more experience then me in live poker. I dont know for a fact that a 10% game capped at 5p isnt profitable. If you came to ask me advice about online poker I wouldnt be "loling" you arogant prick.
Also you might lol if I said "hey my goal is to make money and not go busto. Should I play 10nl or 25nl? BTW the 10nl game has 7bb/100 rake which isn't very profitable.
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Old 07-14-2014, 03:00 PM   #7599
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I wouldnt, but if your saying that a 10% 5bb capped rake is equivalent to a 7bb/100 rake I would appreciate you saying so instead of loling.
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Old 07-14-2014, 03:06 PM   #7600
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I wouldnt, but if your saying that a 10% 5bb capped rake is equivalent to a 7bb/100 rake I would appreciate you saying so instead of loling.
I'm not saying that =/ I didn't wanna argue with you, you said the game was unprofitable so I believed you. I wasn't aware that you actually didn't know if the game was unprofitable. You seemed so confident.

My best judgment is that game is profitable despite the rake because the play will be so awful. Just table select well, play tight, don't go for super marginal spots because after rake they'll be -ev anyway, and if you do all that I'm sure you can make 8-12 pounds/hr at 1/1
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