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Old 06-14-2014, 07:41 PM   #7426
GrindPokerAllDay
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by spikeraw22 View Post
Why would you say that? Someone who has a huge edge over a station is going to profit the same way as someone with a small edge. They'll just so it more efficiently. Being "better" is kind of arbitrary. Being better in a certain game type is more accurate. A great player will have that edge vs. lots I player types.
My point is that most assuredly a normal winning player will receive more benefit (in absolute dollars) from playing a terribad player like this than a player that crushes the game will receive. Mathematically:

[EV playing vs Fish that Can't Fold] - [EV playing vs Bad Players that can Fold] = BenefitReceived

The lower your edge the higher this BenefitReceived amount will be. Sure, someone that crushes the game will have a higher [EV playing vs Fish that Can't Fold] vs other players. That can't be disputed. However I don't believe the difference in that value will be that great between a winner that crushes and one that doesn't, where as the difference in [EV playing vs Bad Players that can Fold] will be substantial between a winner that crushes and one that doesn't.

So the question is how much benefit does a crushing player receive by playing one of these bingo poker players that can't fold. I'm saying that if a crushing player is good enough, the BenefitReceived may actually be negative.
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Old 06-14-2014, 08:33 PM   #7427
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Oops, I should clarify one thing. I was thinking avg effective stack depths..ie 60bbs to 150bbs. Obviously if you are 300+ bbs deep then playing against a player that is not good enough to fold a hand is so ridiculously profitable that no amount of play can overcome that.
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Old 06-14-2014, 08:55 PM   #7428
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

its true for avg eff stack depths too
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Old 06-17-2014, 04:02 AM   #7429
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Hey Guys just a typical question about which game I should play.

I used to play 5/10 online for a living but gave it up after the whole BF thing. After 2.5 years of almost no poker I found myself unemployed late last year and decided to give live poker a go.

Due to rustiness and playing live $1/$2 like I used to play online short handed I really struggled for the first few months and almost went completely busto. But since February I have been doing much better, here is my graph:



That is around 660 hours, with around 450 of those at $1/2 and the rest at $1/$3.

Now my bankroll is $10500 and I am living from that bankroll as well. My monthly expenses are around $1300.

There are 3 games I am looking at:

$300NL - soft game usually 50/50 between weak or nitty regs and clueless recreational players.

$500NL - never tried it, there is usually only 1 or 2 tables has a max buyin of $700. I often see people with 3K+ there. Does seem to have a few full time pros in it and people at 1/3 talk about how aggro it is but for most of them 3 betting AK seems aggro.

$1/$2 Omaha - Usually has a straddle of $5 and a buyin between $200-$1000. There are some good regs in that game but it seems to be fuelled by a collection of asian whales with bottomless pockets who have absolutely no idea how to play but rely on omaha variance + big bankrolls to sometimes get very lucky. Seems like a very profitable game but its omaha so huge swings are expected.

Right now I am exclusively playing the $1/$3 game and just wondering what sort of bankroll I need to play the $2/$5 and omaha games and when I should begin taking shots.
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:07 AM   #7430
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Take shots at the 2/5 when it looks good now. Avoid Omaha.
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Old 06-17-2014, 07:03 AM   #7431
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If 2/5 is the biggest game the casino has the game may not be that great. You probably have an edge but I would be fairly selective about taking shots until you know how good the game is on a daily basis. Also right now you are still a bit under rolled.
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:20 AM   #7432
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If you were able to beat 5/10 online pre BF (I assume you mean NLHE), you will have no problem in pretty well any 2/5 game live.

I just think you BR is too small. If you BR was 10,500 and you had a life roll of 3 months living expenses saved up in a separate account, I would say take a shot at 2/5. I would recommend playing 1/3 till you have 10,000+3 months living expenses. Then move the living expenses to a separate account. Then take a shot at 2/5.
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:51 PM   #7433
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by GrindPokerAllDay View Post
If 2/5 is the biggest game the casino has the game may not be that great. You probably have an edge but I would be fairly selective about taking shots until you know how good the game is on a daily basis. Also right now you are still a bit under rolled.
This.
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:12 PM   #7434
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If you were able to beat 5/10 online pre BF (I assume you mean NLHE), you will have no problem in pretty well any 2/5 game live.
I agree I'm principle but there is a definite learning curve going from online to live. There's no HUDs, you actually have to pay attention and no stats on people you've never seen before. Plus people react differently when actually pulling money out of a wallet to rebuy rather then just clicking. Heck I.even had a friend who was a solid winner online but always flashed his cards when looking at them in a casino. I always recommend spending time at a lower game until you're used to all the aspects of the live game


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Old 06-17-2014, 11:24 PM   #7435
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Related question. I have a $6300 BR that is solely for poker. I'm planning on taking a shot or two at 2/5 here soon. Just wondering how many bullets is too many bullets. Was thinking like $1000 to chip up a buy in and then just go back down if it doesn't go well. Have a significant edge in $1/2 so really not worried about going busto or anything.
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:53 PM   #7436
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Originally Posted by spikeraw22 View Post
Related question. I have a $6300 BR that is solely for poker. I'm planning on taking a shot or two at 2/5 here soon. Just wondering how many bullets is too many bullets. Was thinking like $1000 to chip up a buy in and then just go back down if it doesn't go well. Have a significant edge in $1/2 so really not worried about going busto or anything.
If that's just a poker roll, and you have a proven record of beating up 1/2 that's perfectly fine.

Also good luck bro.
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:44 AM   #7437
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22 View Post
Related question. I have a $6300 BR that is solely for poker. I'm planning on taking a shot or two at 2/5 here soon. Just wondering how many bullets is too many bullets. Was thinking like $1000 to chip up a buy in and then just go back down if it doesn't go well. Have a significant edge in $1/2 so really not worried about going busto or anything.
personally id take shots at 8k if there is no limit between 1/2 and 2/5
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:59 AM   #7438
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I started with a 1.2k bankroll and play 2-5. So far I am up 1100 in 4 sessions and buyin for 400$ a session.

I dont recommend it but it was more of a challenge than anything. I am trying to turn 1.2k to 5k in a couple months. I played tighter at first and the people are horrible. Since they think I am tight, I can bluff at some big pots and take them down most of thr time. Bad players and tighter play is the way to go. Also, I see that aggression against weak oppnents pays off most of the time. People don't understand how to react to aggressive play and make big mistakes

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Old 06-18-2014, 09:22 AM   #7439
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22 View Post
Related question. I have a $6300 BR that is solely for poker. I'm planning on taking a shot or two at 2/5 here soon. Just wondering how many bullets is too many bullets. Was thinking like $1000 to chip up a buy in and then just go back down if it doesn't go well. Have a significant edge in $1/2 so really not worried about going busto or anything.
The biggest reason I don't shot-take at 2/5 is because I have about -$2,000. (Yes, negative, I have access to money but owe loans to the guy that made me and the stupid federal government, so it's < $0.) When there's someone who makes six figures a year and has over 6grand put aside that he doesn't need to touch in order to keep living, and he's still worried that he doesn't have enough to play 2/5, it makes me really mad and a little sick.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:45 AM   #7440
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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The biggest reason I don't shot-take at 2/5 is because I have about -$2,000. (Yes, negative, I have access to money but owe loans to the guy that made me and the stupid federal government, so it's < $0.) When there's someone who makes six figures a year and has over 6grand put aside that he doesn't need to touch in order to keep living, and he's still worried that he doesn't have enough to play 2/5, it makes me really mad and a little sick.
Wait, you're a made man? HOW ARE YOU NOT TAKING SHOTS???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_man
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:55 AM   #7441
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^ Mad props lol. I been saying that for a while, [obv] meaning my dad, no one's ever come back with that though. Most of the time someone says "He made you do what?"
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:17 AM   #7442
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^ Mad props lol. I been saying that for a while, [obv] meaning my dad, no one's ever come back with that though. Most of the time someone says "He made you do what?"
Those people are dumb. Or have never seen goodfellas
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:50 AM   #7443
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The biggest reason I don't shot-take at 2/5 is because I have about -$2,000. (Yes, negative, I have access to money but owe loans to the guy that made me and the stupid federal government, so it's < $0.) When there's someone who makes six figures a year and has over 6grand put aside that he doesn't need to touch in order to keep living, and he's still worried that he doesn't have enough to play 2/5, it makes me really mad and a little sick.
Sorry to offend.

I keep it 100% segregated. If its not the old lady will not tolerate it. Hence the preoccupation with brm.

I know what it's like to be broke. The first 33 years of my life were broke. You'll get there.
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:52 PM   #7444
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This is completely standard right? I played about 50 hours for a profit of $1k before I started taking it seriously and logging my sessions so the stats aren't quite as bad as they seem. Haven't had a winning session bigger than +75bb since April 12. It's all 1/2 at MDL, CT and now Vegas for the past week.



Session graph:

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Old 06-18-2014, 12:55 PM   #7445
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Originally Posted by spikeraw22 View Post
Related question. I have a $6300 BR that is solely for poker. I'm planning on taking a shot or two at 2/5 here soon. Just wondering how many bullets is too many bullets. Was thinking like $1000 to chip up a buy in and then just go back down if it doesn't go well. Have a significant edge in $1/2 so really not worried about going busto or anything.
For the reasons you posted I would be shot taking with 2300 since your risk of ruin is practically nil at 1/2 as you have noted while the opportunity of shot taking a higher game is so much higher.

That's not to say that you need to take 2.3k to the table or that if you are in a bad game/not playing the best just leave the 2/5 game. But grinding 1/2 with just poker money while you already have a job and living expenses covered is just a huge waste of time IMO.

There is a stickied thread here about shot taking which basically explains my thoughts on it to the T.

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Old 06-18-2014, 02:55 PM   #7446
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Kind of how I'm starting to think about it. I really wanted to do it the right way and grind it from 0 to ~ without a stupid shot higher up. I think I'm in a pretty good spot for it now. Will see how it goes.
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:34 PM   #7447
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This is completely standard right? I played about 50 hours for a profit of $1k before I started taking it seriously and logging my sessions so the stats aren't quite as bad as they seem. Haven't had a winning session bigger than +75bb since April 12. It's all 1/2 at MDL, CT and now Vegas for the past week.
Its not a huge sample so I wouldnt be super concerned. Just keep working on your game. How much of that is vegas though? Ive been playing there the last few nights and these games are playing like the thin profit high variance games I used to play online.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:03 PM   #7448
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Its not a huge sample so I wouldnt be super concerned. Just keep working on your game. How much of that is vegas though? Ive been playing there the last few nights and these games are playing like the thin profit high variance games I used to play online.
Only 20 of the 170 hours are Vegas, and I totally agree that Vegas games, even 1/2, seemed pretty dang tough over the past week. Makes me grateful that MDL is my home casino
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Old 06-19-2014, 06:25 AM   #7449
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Only 20 of the 170 hours are Vegas, and I totally agree that Vegas games, even 1/2, seemed pretty dang tough over the past week. Makes me grateful that MDL is my home casino
Lol, mdl right now >> Vegas in early June >>>>>>>>>>>>>mdl the past 4 months. Table selection imo.
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Old 06-19-2014, 06:50 AM   #7450
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by spikeraw22 View Post
Related question. I have a $6300 BR that is solely for poker. I'm planning on taking a shot or two at 2/5 here soon. Just wondering how many bullets is too many bullets. Was thinking like $1000 to chip up a buy in and then just go back down if it doesn't go well. Have a significant edge in $1/2 so really not worried about going busto or anything.
If the games are good then I'd recommend using a bankroll of $3k to take shots at 2/5 with a $1k stop loss.

If you use a stop loss and have a full bankroll, then I think $1500 is typically a good stop loss #, maybe $2k if you have a loose style and aren't too tiltable. Anything over that and you might as well not have a stop loss.
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