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Old 05-25-2014, 06:17 PM   #7251
jermainthepayne
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February 28 - Today
I've played 125 Freeroll tournaments on SealsWithClubs and cashed in 33 winning 75.88 chips.
1st. 4x
2nd. 4x
3rd. 3x
4th. 5x
5th. 3x
6th. 3x
7th. 7x
8th. 3x
11th. 1x
Most of these tournaments were freerolls so the tilt factor was at a minimum. Should these stats even be considered valid? Any input is greatly appreciated.
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Old 05-25-2014, 06:40 PM   #7252
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by jermainthepayne View Post
Most of these tournaments were freerolls so the tilt factor was at a minimum. Should these stats even be considered valid? Any input is greatly appreciated.
I doubt there is anyone in this subforum that knows much about freeroll tournaments.
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Old 05-25-2014, 06:42 PM   #7253
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by jermainthepayne View Post
Most of these tournaments were freerolls so the tilt factor was at a minimum. Should these stats even be considered valid? Any input is greatly appreciated.
What are you asking? You've netted .076 BTCs, which is like $40, in x hours. Calculate your hourly and see if it's worth your time. I don't think it is, but perhaps you do.
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Old 05-25-2014, 06:47 PM   #7254
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by y0l0Theory View Post
What game(s) are you playing?

Option 1) 1/2 NL (with $2 mandatory straddle on BTN, effectively a 3 blind game) 60-200 max. 5+2 rake. 15 minute drive. Solid game selection. Plenty of tables to choose from.

Option 2) 2/5 NL, 200-500 max. 5+2 rake. 15 minute drive. 2-3 tables on average.

Option 3) 1/2 NL 60-300 max. 5+2 rake. 45 minute drive. Solid game selection. Plenty of tables to choose from

Option 4) 2/5 NL 200-500 max. 5+2 rake. 45 minute drive. Soild game selection. 4-6 tables on average.

Option 5) 2/5 NL. 300-1000 max. 5+2 rake. 45 minute drive. Usually just 1-2 tables.

Option 6)1/2 NL 100-300 max. 5+2 rake. 1 hour drive. Lots of tables. Great game selection.

Option 7) 2-5 NL 200-600 max. 5+2 rake. 1 hour drive. Good game selection. Lots of weekend action.

Preciate the input
You don't have much time so this is a no-brainer go with Option 1. If you profit in that you can either build your bankroll playing it or take aggressive shots at 2/5 (option 2). If you have a weekend free then you could do the 1 hr drive but for now I see no reason.
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Old 05-25-2014, 07:12 PM   #7255
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I used to grind freerolls when I was 13. I know a thing or two!
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Old 05-25-2014, 07:36 PM   #7256
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I'm asking considering the stats you think it would be a wise option to start playing actual $ tournaments?
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Old 05-25-2014, 07:37 PM   #7257
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Yea I think so. Just keep learning and getting better and you'll be ok
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Old 05-25-2014, 07:39 PM   #7258
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

The problem with asking the question here is that this is a cash games sub-forum, not tournaments.
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Old 05-25-2014, 09:18 PM   #7259
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You don't have much time so this is a no-brainer go with Option 1. If you profit in that you can either build your bankroll playing it or take aggressive shots at 2/5 (option 2). If you have a weekend free then you could do the 1 hr drive but for now I see no reason.
Is it really that much of a no brainer? That 3 blind structure seems realllly bad. Almost unplayable imo (once again its mandatory $2 on btn)
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Old 05-25-2014, 09:20 PM   #7260
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Like thats an extra $6 hour in whats an alreadly egregiously raked game, doesnt really seem worth it, even tho its closest venue and only stake im reasonably rolled to be playing
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Old 05-25-2014, 09:38 PM   #7261
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

The blinds aren't rake though. The blinds are just blinds. I don't know the exact impact of the button blind but in general I would expect a game with more blind money to play a bit bigger.

Sure, if you are a nit then then you are at a disadvantage the more often you have to put money in blind, but if you are able to adjust your game then I don't see any major issues with the button straddle.
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Old 05-25-2014, 09:45 PM   #7262
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Saying that adding an extra blind to the game will decrease your winrate means that if we move from 1/2 to 2/5 we would make less because there are bigger blinds. And that's clearly just wrong.

In fact, I think for a good player we will likely see an increase in $'s / hour and an increase in bb / hour.

The first is obvious. There is more money in the pot, so aveage raise size will be bigger. Which means that the average mistake by our villains wil lbe bigger. Increasing our win rate.

The latter is really just a function of game size compared to blind size. It's like a 2/5 game with a mandatory straddle. The game is still 2/5 in the way that most people will look at bb/won per hour, but really, if it's a straddle game, you are playing 5/10 and you should count your bb/hour as $'s won / 10 not $s won / 5.

In in this case the blinds that ew calculate are still 1/2 but now there is $5 in the pot pre flop instead of $3. So, the average raise size will be bigger, and as a result we will win more bb/hour (if we are good) even though the 'blind' size hasn't changed.
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Old 05-25-2014, 10:06 PM   #7263
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Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch View Post
Saying that adding an extra blind to the game will decrease your winrate means that if we move from 1/2 to 2/5 we would make less because there are bigger blinds. And that's clearly just wrong.

In fact, I think for a good player we will likely see an increase in $'s / hour and an increase in bb / hour.

The first is obvious. There is more money in the pot, so aveage raise size will be bigger. Which means that the average mistake by our villains wil lbe bigger. Increasing our win rate.

The latter is really just a function of game size compared to blind size. It's like a 2/5 game with a mandatory straddle. The game is still 2/5 in the way that most people will look at bb/won per hour, but really, if it's a straddle game, you are playing 5/10 and you should count your bb/hour as $'s won / 10 not $s won / 5.

In in this case the blinds that ew calculate are still 1/2 but now there is $5 in the pot pre flop instead of $3. So, the average raise size will be bigger, and as a result we will win more bb/hour (if we are good) even though the 'blind' size hasn't changed.
Not sure i entirely agree with this. Winrates are more a function of effective stack sizes than the blinds. A higher blind game with low effective stacks will generally yield low win rates.

Also it should be noted that this game is raked even if no flop is seen.

And at 1/2 I imagine that playing like a nit is the best way to go about it. So that extra 2 dollars im paying in rake every round will make a difference if im not playing many hands.

Appreciate the discussion and suggestions so far, thanks
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Old 05-25-2014, 10:13 PM   #7264
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I could be totally wrong about this by the way! just trying to make the best decision and weigh all factors before i start playing again
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Old 05-26-2014, 12:03 AM   #7265
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Re: 2/5 Live Realistic Bankroll

I think 20 buy-ins is the minimum roll one should have to withstand variance of live play, if you're a competent player, but that's not saying 20 buy-in downswings aren't possible. I think you should keep a 20-buy-in bankroll for whatever game you're playing live. If it was online 500nl I'd probably be only shot taking.
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Old 05-26-2014, 12:31 AM   #7266
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Originally Posted by y0l0Theory View Post
I have a similar what game should i play situation as ZY...

My background is similar. I was a full time pro prior to Black Friday. Played mostly SSNL with some success at MSNL....

Flash foward to the present and i now have 4k worth of full tilt monies to play with. Im no longer a pro ldo and havent played much these past few years but i assume I still have fundamentals to win at a good clip live.

Assuming 4k bankroll. Im a student with a 26 per hour week job that covers my expenses. Not like this money is life changing but it would be disapponting to bust it... I wont have much time to play. Probably 20 hours week max, often 4-5 hour blocks at a time...occassionally longer on some weekends...

What game(s) are you playing?

Option 1) 1/2 NL (with $2 mandatory straddle on BTN, effectively a 3 blind game) 60-200 max. 5+2 rake. 15 minute drive. Solid game selection. Plenty of tables to choose from.

Option 2) 2/5 NL, 200-500 max. 5+2 rake. 15 minute drive. 2-3 tables on average.

Option 3) 1/2 NL 60-300 max. 5+2 rake. 45 minute drive. Solid game selection. Plenty of tables to choose from

Option 4) 2/5 NL 200-500 max. 5+2 rake. 45 minute drive. Soild game selection. 4-6 tables on average.

Option 5) 2/5 NL. 300-1000 max. 5+2 rake. 45 minute drive. Usually just 1-2 tables.

Option 6)1/2 NL 100-300 max. 5+2 rake. 1 hour drive. Lots of tables. Great game selection.

Option 7) 2-5 NL 200-600 max. 5+2 rake. 1 hour drive. Good game selection. Lots of weekend action.

Preciate the input
I would play 1/2 until you have about 6k then take a 1k shot at 2/5. If you dust off that 1k grind it back up at 1/2. Adjust this model according to risk tolerance.

As for location that comes down to personal preference. Make a list of the most important things you are looking for such as table selection and try out each venue a couple times and form your own opinion.
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Old 05-26-2014, 12:49 AM   #7267
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

RE: where to play...

IMO, if you can keep other variables constant, you should try to play in the deepest game of the biggest stakes you are comfortable with.

Therefore, in the 3 option muse posted above, I would play in the 1/3 game over any of the 1/2 games offered.

~~~

Assuming you have a nominal 4-door sedan, 1 hour of highway driving is about 60-70 miles. At $4/gal and 25MPG, its costing you < $24 per trip to the casino in fuel.

If you're playing 2/5, with an 8-10bb/hr win rate, I think you can ignore this expense.

If you're grinding 1/2 trying to get a 10bb/hr win rate, I would consider the travel costs to be unacceptable and play at the closer casino.

~~~~~~

One variable that you should not ignore is playing where the games are good. It doesn't matter if you play at the casino with the biggest poker room. It only matters if the games are good.

So in the 8 option muse, I would:
-- tend to play where the games are deeper
-- tend to play where the regs suck worse, or fail to adjust
-- tend to play where there are more random fish passing by

(Travel costs are unimportant to me. My car gets 41MPG and I enjoy driving as a form of relaxation, reflection and education (listening to audio tapes).)
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Old 05-26-2014, 01:00 AM   #7268
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Old 05-26-2014, 01:21 AM   #7269
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hey, thx for all the input guys. Starting this weekend, i plan to play1/2 at that 3 blind game at the closest casino (option 1) Im going to view my time playing 1/2 as a warmup mostly since my roll is what it is and i havent played in such a long time. Hopefully i run good from the start and get it up to 6k where i can take that 1k shot at 2/5 as pureaggression suggested.

Note: this plan goes directly against the advice given from one of my best friends who has been a live pro since black friday and is a top reg at 2/5 venetian. he suggested that i just jump into 2/5 right away and drop down if my roll gets to 1500.

i like the proposed idea bit better since i can get my feet wet and hopefully gain some experience and confidence early. i plan on updating in my pg&c thread fairly often so you can follow my progress there, Thx again for all the suggestions
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Old 05-26-2014, 01:40 AM   #7270
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Hey All

I play 2/5 Live at a place that has a minimum $200 maximum $500. Long story short I started playing it for part time income while earning the rest of my income in another part time job.

I am rolling with $10,000 which is 20 buy ins. Since I play live I do not have graphs but I have always done fairly well. Do you feel 20 buy ins is still the right bench mark or should I shoot for more and if so how much more? Also when you are running bad how many buy ins do you need to drop before you would move down to 1/2?

Thanks in advance.
Get poker journal, have graphs, I'd start off buying in for 300... 4k downswings happen in this structure. Being totally over rolled for a game is awesome, you are not that but you're probably more healthily rolled than 80% of your opponents. Plus it sounds like you have a job.
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Old 05-26-2014, 01:47 AM   #7271
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Re: 2/5 Live Realistic Bankroll

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Hey All

I play 2/5 Live at a place that has a minimum $200 maximum $500. Long story short I started playing it for part time income while earning the rest of my income in another part time job.

I am rolling with $10,000 which is 20 buy ins. Since I play live I do not have graphs but I have always done fairly well. Do you feel 20 buy ins is still the right bench mark or should I shoot for more and if so how much more? Also when you are running bad how many buy ins do you need to drop before you would move down to 1/2?

Thanks in advance.
b4 yer kwestion kan b answered - u must precisely define the bolded - I mean really. Number of hours played at precise steak and amt won or lost at each steak. Cuz u go into any poker room and 95% of poker players will tell u that they have always done fairly well at the poker tables. And I can promis u this. 95% of poker playaz are not winners
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Old 05-26-2014, 04:58 AM   #7272
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Just want an opinion, are these rake structures beatable?

$80-$200 (max buyin blind $1/$2) game 10% rake upto $10 with a $5 time charge per hour

$200-$300 (max buyin blind $3/3) game 10% rake upto $10 with a $5 time charge per hour

Keep in mind this a place where there is no tipping of dealers allowed.
If the quality of play is pretty bad, what sort of hourly is possible?
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Old 05-26-2014, 08:07 AM   #7273
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Just want an opinion, are these rake structures beatable?

$80-$200 (max buyin blind $1/$2) game 10% rake upto $10 with a $5 time charge per hour

$200-$300 (max buyin blind $3/3) game 10% rake upto $10 with a $5 time charge per hour

Keep in mind this a place where there is no tipping of dealers allowed.
If the quality of play is pretty bad, what sort of hourly is possible?
Even if the field is super soft you would be doing well to make $10/hr. Australian rake is terrible.
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Old 05-26-2014, 09:31 AM   #7274
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I got 48 pounds an hour at 1/2 over 800 hours I think. Games are 200bbs though.

Crown actually IS very soft, just the rake balances it out by a lot. I think you can definitely make more than $10, but the cap is very low.
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Old 05-26-2014, 10:37 AM   #7275
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'm having some serious bankroll management problems.

My current bankroll is €500, I'm down €400 because I hit some unlucky spots. (Had 65%+ each time my money went in.)
I'm 99% sure I'm capable of beating these games easily. Probably not for as much as possible, but I'm definitely not a losing player at the lowest stakes.
I can add 50-100 to my bankroll each month.

In my region there are 1/1 home games available like once a week, maybe twice but don't really know (or trust) the guys at the other game.
There are also two casino's that offer 2/2 games.

I feel pretty comfortable playing for €100 in the home games.
I feel a little uncomfortable playing in the casino, I prefer sitting down for €100 but don't really enjoy playing short stacked, as in I'd rather sit there with a €400 stack.
I'd feel rather uncomfortable playing in the casino for €200 or more, since that's almost half my entire bankroll.

What would be the best way to get my bankroll up to a sustainable bankroll? I'd like around 4000-8000 to start with.
Should I buy-in for €100 at the casino? Should I play less and only play the home games once or twice a week?
Should I just buy-in for €400 at the casino and not play for the next 3 months if I bust?

Should I get up when I double up? Or should I just continue playing with a bigger stack?
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