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Old 05-01-2014, 05:21 PM   #7126
Angrist
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by chet22r View Post
What is the approach for winning a promo such as a high hand for x amount...do you count it to your win rate or not? Or just add it to the bankroll as rake back.
I include it as a separate game, so it shows in my overall results but doesn't skew my $1/2 hourly or my $2/5 hourly.

But there is a case to be made to simply include it as a normal session "win" since you're including all the extra jackpot drops in your results anyway.

Meh. Pick something that makes sense to you and stick with it.
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Old 05-01-2014, 06:08 PM   #7127
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I think short of hitting the bad beat jackpot when it's at some ungodly amount, you can include promos in your WR if you want - but don't feel obligated to. Like Angrist said, do whatever makes the most sense to you. If it's going into your bankroll then I would include it in my WR, personally.
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Old 05-01-2014, 06:39 PM   #7128
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

i have separate columns for "gross" and "net" hourly on my excel. "gross hourly" includes everything including jackpots and promos while "net hourly" only pertains to the profits from the actual game.
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Old 05-01-2014, 07:49 PM   #7129
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by genghiskan View Post
i have separate columns for "gross" and "net" hourly on my excel. "gross hourly" includes everything including jackpots and promos while "net hourly" only pertains to the profits from the actual game.
Do you also change your hours based on time at the table vs time spent driving and on breaks?
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:06 PM   #7130
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

no, i only count the hours i spent at the casino (including breaks). i kinda want to do apples to apples comparison to regular jobs so i don't count the time spent driving.
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:49 PM   #7131
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

A question regarding stop losses and topping up at the table... Say for a 1/2 game, you bring 2 buy-ins, or $400. When is a good time to add on to your stack if you happen to take a hit early on?

I've had the problem where I top up like $30-40 and then get stacked. At that point I'm left with less than a full buy-in without going over the stop loss. Any tips on navigating these situations?
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:53 PM   #7132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neemahb View Post
A question regarding stop losses and topping up at the table... Say for a 1/2 game, you bring 2 buy-ins, or $400. When is a good time to add on to your stack if you happen to take a hit early on?

I've had the problem where I top up like $30-40 and then get stacked. At that point I'm left with less than a full buy-in without going over the stop loss. Any tips on navigating these situations?
I always have 100bb minimum on the table

Bring $600 but the last $200 is only for top ups. but if your stop-loss is $400 for whatever reason then get up as soon as you're down $400
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:55 PM   #7133
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neemahb View Post
A question regarding stop losses and topping up at the table... Say for a 1/2 game, you bring 2 buy-ins, or $400. When is a good time to add on to your stack if you happen to take a hit early on?

I've had the problem where I top up like $30-40 and then get stacked. At that point I'm left with less than a full buy-in without going over the stop loss. Any tips on navigating these situations?
I'm guessing from this type of question that you're either under-rolled or don't have a separate poker roll at all??
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Old 05-02-2014, 01:25 AM   #7134
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I have an hourly of $23hr over 300 hours, so I am obviously a winning player.
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Old 05-02-2014, 07:02 AM   #7135
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Originally Posted by scourrge View Post
I'm guessing from this type of question that you're either under-rolled or don't have a separate poker roll at all??
Under-rolled. Poker roll is 7 buy ins at 1/2 without much room to supplement from other sources.

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Bring $600 but the last $200 is only for top ups. but if your stop-loss is $400 for whatever reason then get up as soon as you're down $400
I like this. Except in the case I get stacked after I've topped up and putting out a full buy-in would set me over my stop loss say I were to get stacked again (lol).
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Old 05-02-2014, 07:22 AM   #7136
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Dont get stacked as much?..

But seriously:
If you get stacked after topping up, don't fret. As long as you play well, its fine. Its not often that you will get stacked twice in one session.
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:05 AM   #7137
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I have changed several things in my game and I've seen a better profit in April (35$/h over 200h). The bad news is that I lost a loooooooot with my mistakes
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Old 05-03-2014, 07:15 AM   #7138
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

How many hours of cash play before you know your hourly? I've been an MTT guy and have enough of a sample to see my ROI as representative of my skill but now I plan on playing more cash and am curious if anyone has an opinion on how long I will have to play before I know where I am at.

Also, what would be a solid hourly for 5/10 NLHE? I played this limit for the first time last week and over 40 hours made $223/hr but had some serious run good (think I won 4 of the 5 pots I played that were over 3K). Is $100/hr a reasonable goal for a solid B+ player?
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Old 05-03-2014, 07:44 AM   #7139
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by pninwin View Post
Also, what would be a solid hourly for 5/10 NLHE? I played this limit for the first time last week and over 40 hours made $223/hr but had some serious run good (think I won 4 of the 5 pots I played that were over 3K). Is $100/hr a reasonable goal for a solid B+ player?
Games vary a lot across the country so it's hard to say but in general I'd say that is a reasonable goal for an "A" player. If you are a B+ player you should probably focus on 2/5 tbh.
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Old 05-03-2014, 07:47 AM   #7140
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I've read in several posts across the forums that an hourly winrate of 8-10bb/hr is considered the uppermost limits of crushing a LLSNL game. Is this for 100-150bb cap games with an avg 5+1 rake structure, i.e. 1/2 NL $60-300?

I live in PA, where 2/5 is a 200bb cap BI, $200-1000. There is a fair amount of shortstacking, but I'd say the average BI is $750-1000. Even the sstackers end up relatively deep to blind structure, and it's not uncommon to find games where at least half the table is playing +500bb deep. Standard opening raise is 5-7x.

My point is that winrates in this game would seem to tend to approach those expected of a 5-10, rather than a 100bb cap 2/5 (which I understand is how most rooms in NJ and CA are run). I heard LV 2/5 is also 200bb cap; does anyone have any significant hours logged?

FWIW I am at 30bb/hr over the last 100 hrs at 2/5 200bb. I know that this would be running waaaaay above expectation even at a 5-10 150bb cap structure (15bb/hr), but it seems ungodly high for expected 2/5 win rates.

In b4 fish on a heater
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:53 PM   #7141
SammyZ
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Originally Posted by IbelieveinChipKelly View Post
Ah, consistency:

Week 1 as 'pro:' -$200
Week 2 as 'pro:' +$2200
Lol. Try:
Month 1 as a "pro": +$8,000
Month 2 as a "pro" +$200
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Old 05-03-2014, 01:29 PM   #7142
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by scelsi View Post
I've read in several posts across the forums that an hourly winrate of 8-10bb/hr is considered the uppermost limits of crushing a LLSNL game. Is this for 100-150bb cap games with an avg 5+1 rake structure, i.e. 1/2 NL $60-300?

I live in PA, where 2/5 is a 200bb cap BI, $200-1000. There is a fair amount of shortstacking, but I'd say the average BI is $750-1000. Even the sstackers end up relatively deep to blind structure, and it's not uncommon to find games where at least half the table is playing +500bb deep. Standard opening raise is 5-7x.

My point is that winrates in this game would seem to tend to approach those expected of a 5-10, rather than a 100bb cap 2/5 (which I understand is how most rooms in NJ and CA are run). I heard LV 2/5 is also 200bb cap; does anyone have any significant hours logged?

FWIW I am at 30bb/hr over the last 100 hrs at 2/5 200bb. I know that this would be running waaaaay above expectation even at a 5-10 150bb cap structure (15bb/hr), but it seems ungodly high for expected 2/5 win rates.

In b4 fish on a heater
I mean, I can't really speak to specific numbers here, but it's effectively always true that if you don't suck at playing deep, then playing deeper stacked will increase your edge. So yes, having deeper-stacked average stacks could increase your hourly quite a bit.

Probably more telling is that the raise size is 5-7x. This is really going to magnify win-rates imo, and suggests the game is effectively playing close to 5/10 in terms of average pot size anyway.

That being said, 100 hours is effectively nothing. A pretty big fish could be a winner over that period, and a pretty good player could be a loser over that period. So a solid player could post a massive win-rate over that period if he ran above expectation.
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Old 05-03-2014, 07:09 PM   #7143
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

One's winrate is dependent more on the quality of players than it is on stack depth. There are games across the country that are 100bb or less where the achievable hourly is higher than in a 200bb buy in Vegas game. In fact, often times the deeper buy-in games actually play nittier. Also, just because the buyins are short doesn't mean the stack sizes are short. If the game is good the stack sizes will likely get as big or bigger than the stack sizes of a deep buy-in game.
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Old 05-03-2014, 10:35 PM   #7144
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by GrindPokerAllDay View Post
One's winrate is dependent more on the quality of players than it is on stack depth. There are games across the country that are 100bb or less where the achievable hourly is higher than in a 200bb buy in Vegas game. In fact, often times the deeper buy-in games actually play nittier. Also, just because the buyins are short doesn't mean the stack sizes are short. If the game is good the stack sizes will likely get as big or bigger than the stack sizes of a deep buy-in game.
Yes, but we're going to consider the fields equal, i.e. this a good 2/5 where folks play 200bb+ like a 40bb stack (overvaluing pairs, playing weak hands OOP etc.).
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Old 05-04-2014, 05:12 AM   #7145
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If tables are weak and deep then the achievable winrate will be on the upper end of the the spectrum. However, I wouldn't say it would be like 5/10 unless players regularly open for $60+. Also, keep in mind most 5/10s are deep as well.
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Old 05-04-2014, 07:30 AM   #7146
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by GrindPokerAllDay View Post
If tables are weak and deep then the achievable winrate will be on the upper end of the the spectrum. However, I wouldn't say it would be like 5/10 unless players regularly open for $60+. Also, keep in mind most 5/10s are deep as well.
Good info, Ty.
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Old 05-04-2014, 06:27 PM   #7147
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Fwiw I said it would be "close" to 5/10 in average pot, but a better statement might be "it's close to 5/10 in terms of typical pot size." Since obviously the big pots in 5/10 will still be way more massive than at 2/5, so the average pot size will still be different between the games.

5-7x at 2/5 is 2.5x-3.5x at 5/10. I don't play 5/10, but I find it unlikely that people are typically making it closer to 6x than say 4x pre with no limpers in. I could be way off though.
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:45 AM   #7148
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I think 4x is standard at 5/10 because people are actually thinking about your open size.
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Old 05-05-2014, 05:59 AM   #7149
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I think 4x is standard at 5/10 because people are actually thinking about your open size.
Anywhere from 30-40 is standard at 5-10
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:41 AM   #7150
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Based on my play in 5/10 I'd say there is no standard. Some games are like 3x to 4x and other games are like 6x to 7x and a lot of games you are going to put in $100+ to see a flop. There is a lot more 3-betting in 5/10 so that makes the pots bigger, but also rich guys don't like getting pushed out of pots. The vast majority of my hours at 5/10 have been played where 5/10 is the biggest game so it could vary elsewhere.

FWIW, SABR42 was playing in a 5/10 tonight where the guy on his left was making it $4k a hand. Good luck finding a 2/5 that plays like that.
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