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Old 03-26-2014, 10:04 AM   #6826
homerdash
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Just hit 100 hours of 1/2 in Feb/Mar, have only played LLSNL <20 hours lifetime before starting this grind. Winrate is at 7.5bb/hr and that includes being almost break-even (-$50) over my last 55 hours, so very preliminary results in determining hourly are promising.
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Old 03-26-2014, 12:27 PM   #6827
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyLuckBox View Post
Wait your in vegas?? You have a million options, go to bellagio and crush 2-5

Its prolly worth the drive to go from making $20/hr to $50/hr imo

And i still really doubt the red rock $2-5 is as tough as you say it is. Just doesnt make any sense for crushers to all be playing together on the same table of $2-5 when they live in vegas of all places.

It would be a total waste of time if they really are pro
I make a lot more than $20/hr playing 1/2 and I have a real job. By the time I'm done with my real job for the day, driving all the way to the strip and back, dealing with traffic and the long walks from parking garages to the poker room seems like a hassle when I can drive 5 minutes to Red Rock and park right next to the poker room and already have reads on every reg that plays there. Believe what you want, the RR 2/5 game is awful 90% of the time. When the game looks good I play and have about 150 hours in it since November at $59/hour, but it usually sucks. I just play for fun, not as my main source of income.
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Old 03-26-2014, 01:20 PM   #6828
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
I make a lot more than $20/hr playing 1/2 and I have a real job. By the time I'm done with my real job for the day, driving all the way to the strip and back, dealing with traffic and the long walks from parking garages to the poker room seems like a hassle when I can drive 5 minutes to Red Rock and park right next to the poker room and already have reads on every reg that plays there. Believe what you want, the RR 2/5 game is awful 90% of the time. When the game looks good I play and have about 150 hours in it since November at $59/hour, but it usually sucks. I just play for fun, not as my main source of income.
+1
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Old 03-26-2014, 02:04 PM   #6829
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
I make a lot more than $20/hr playing 1/2 and I have a real job. By the time I'm done with my real job for the day, driving all the way to the strip and back, dealing with traffic and the long walks from parking garages to the poker room seems like a hassle when I can drive 5 minutes to Red Rock and park right next to the poker room and already have reads on every reg that plays there. Believe what you want, the RR 2/5 game is awful 90% of the time. When the game looks good I play and have about 150 hours in it since November at $59/hour, but it usually sucks. I just play for fun, not as my main source of income.
More illogical stuffs coming out of you. I'll just point them out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
I make a lot more than $20/hr playing 1/2 and I have a real job. By the time I'm done with my real job for the day, driving all the way to the strip and back, dealing with traffic and the long walks from parking garages to the poker room seems like a hassle when I can drive 5 minutes to Red Rock and park right next to the poker room and already have reads on every reg that plays there. Believe what you want, the RR 2/5 game is awful 90% of the time.
1. You don't want to drive extra 15 minutes to play a wide selection of 2/5 because you rather play the same 1/2 regs that you know.

You claimed that you won $59k in 1/2:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
Made a little over $59k in 2013, mostly at 1/2. December was pretty up and down, had my biggest downswing of the year, then got it all back and more last week of the year. 2014 off to a good start with a $656 win last night.
You know a handful of players crushing the same game:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
A $1/2 game with $300 max BI and $4-5 rake should be beatable for 15bb/hour by a good player. I know at least a handful of friends winning more than that.
Red Rock, a casino in Vegas off the strip, multiple big winners are crushing a small pool of 3 to 5 1/2 games with the same regulars day in and day out.

------------------------------------

2. You don't want to play 2/5 in Red Rock because there are 3-4 tough pros.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
Probably, but the $2/5 game at my local casino is usually horrible with 3-4 solid LAGs that play for a living, 3-4 super nits, and the occasional fish. In the $1/2 game everyone sucks, so it's like going to the ATM with no variance. Life expenses also make $2/5 downswings suck a lot more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
Yes there are 3-4 very solid players that are in the 2/5 game there almost every day. Mostly play at red rock. Anyone who plays there should know who they are. One has $1M+ tourney cashes, they're all rolled for and play 5/T, and are all very good at playing deep and putting you in tough spots. None of that happens at 1/2. There's actually at least 5 now that I think about it. The "icebox" from Matt Moores Another Kid Another Dream post has also been playing there regularly past few weeks. Heard she never folds and plays super aggro but I'm sure there's a method to her madness.
They're well-rolled for 5/T, one of them has 1mil+ in tourney cashes, and yet they choose to be regulars in a small casino playing 2/5 amongst each other, not to mention the sharks in 1/2 that are crushing the game for 15bb+/hr.

------------------------------------

3. You play for fun, and poker is not your main source of income.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
I just play for fun, not as my main source of income.
You claimed that you won 59k last year:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
Made a little over $59k in 2013, mostly at 1/2. December was pretty up and down, had my biggest downswing of the year, then got it all back and more last week of the year. 2014 off to a good start with a $656 win last night.
And yet, your poker income on top of your main income is still not enough to cover both your life expenses and downswings in 2/5:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
Probably, but the $2/5 game at my local casino is usually horrible with 3-4 solid LAGs that play for a living, 3-4 super nits, and the occasional fish. In the $1/2 game everyone sucks, so it's like going to the ATM with no variance. Life expenses also make $2/5 downswings suck a lot more.
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Old 03-26-2014, 02:21 PM   #6830
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
1. You don't want to drive extra 15 minutes to play a wide selection of 2/5 because you rather play the same 1/2 regs that you know.
Correct.

Quote:
You claimed that you won $59k in 1/2:
Correct.


Quote:
You know a handful of players crushing the same game:
Correct.


Quote:
Red Rock, a casino in Vegas off the strip, multiple big winners are crushing a small pool of 3 to 5 1/2 games with the same regulars day in and day out.
Correct. Anyone who plays at RR regularly knows who the best players in the room are. There are a handful of big losing players that keep coming back day in and day out. My 1/2 winrate at RR is actually $6/hr more than other casinos, and RR takes a $4+1 rake instead of the $4 rake at the main strip casinos.



Quote:
2. You don't want to play 2/5 in Red Rock because there are 3-4 tough pros.
That's not what I said. I don't care if they are in the game as long as the game is good, but when it's them and 3-4 super nits, the game sucks, so why play? Throw a whale or two in the game and I'm in there.


Quote:
They're well-rolled for 5/T, one of them has 1mil+ in tourney cashes, and yet they choose to be regulars in a small casino playing 2/5 amongst each other, not to mention the sharks in 1/2 that are crushing the game for 15bb+/hr.
Correct. I won't name names, but the $1M tourney guy can be found on hendonmob or other databases that track tourney cashes, it's not a secret. There is a 5/10 game at RR on Friday nights that plays pretty big and there's also a semi-private game organized by one of the regs with some pros and high rollers that usually goes at Suncoast once a week, usually 5/10/20 or 5/10 mandatory button straddle or some variation of that. They all play in those games, I don't have access to their bank accounts obviously but I have no doubt they are rolled for it. RR isn't a small casino, they usually have the same number of tables going as Aria.



Quote:
3. You play for fun, and poker is not your main source of income.
Correct

Quote:
You claimed that you won 59k last year:
You already said that.

Quote:
And yet, your poker income on top of your main income is still not enough to cover both your life expenses and downswings in 2/5
I'm a life roll nit. Not that I have anything to prove to you, but I max out my retirement contributions, bought a house, spent a lot of money renovating it, bought an expensive car, bought expensive toys for said car, bought an expensive extended warranty for said car, and spend $20-40k/year on business expenses. All of those costs add up. It's not that I can't handle the downswings in 2/5, I would just rather not play in a crappy game against tough players or drive to the strip every day when I can drive 5 minutes away and crush the 1/2 game. I am rolled to play 5/10 but like I said, it's not my main source of income and I just play for fun. If I wasn't working a "real" job and was solely depending on poker for income, I would drive to the strip and play 2/5.

Last edited by wj94; 03-26-2014 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 03-26-2014, 02:29 PM   #6831
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Why are you nitpicking him so hard?


1. His statement about the convenience of Red Rock for a recreational player at the end of a work day is 100% understandable.

2. People are creatures of habit. Not everybody is analyzing every situation and looking for the most +EV solution. ie. 2/5 pros not driving to the strip to play softer games.

3. His last statement about the 2/5 swings reads more like a general statement about the positives of 1/2 over 2/5 rather than a personal experience. Also, he clearly stated he is a rec player, I don't think he is claiming he has a 59k+ bankroll.
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Old 03-26-2014, 02:39 PM   #6832
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

"On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog."
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Old 03-26-2014, 02:48 PM   #6833
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I am not nitpicking his claimed stats, only his illogical implications.

It is the same thing that I do in strategy discussions: look for logic and try to make sense of it, and when it doesn't make sense, point it out for discussion.
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Old 03-26-2014, 03:44 PM   #6834
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Originally Posted by HappyLuckBox View Post
I meant any strip game. I dont play in vegas normally so i cant say where is best
If you don't play at any Vegas casinos then why are you offering insight as to where he should play? With all due respect that doesn't make sense.
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Old 03-26-2014, 04:25 PM   #6835
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It'd be a lot more believable if one of the LVL guys went out to RR and played with him and then came back here and said, "this guy crushes like nobody I've ever seen". Because that's basically what his win-rate is implying.
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Old 03-26-2014, 04:45 PM   #6836
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It'd be a lot more believable if one of the LVL guys went out to RR and played with him and then came back here and said, "this guy crushes like nobody I've ever seen". Because that's basically what his win-rate is implying.
Played with several forum members before. gangip used to be a reg at RR before he moved. Also played with Axel Foley a few times. Played with Jseeley a bunch of times who is like the top winning low-mid stakes reg on UltimatePoker. iSUCK_out crushes at RR but he's more of a lurker here. If someone wants to come play at RR I'll buy them a beer at Yard House.
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Old 03-26-2014, 05:29 PM   #6837
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I have played with wj94 at the venetian. we gambooled at 2/5 together

I can say this much - he knows his way around a poker table. I can not verify his w/r at 1/2 and honestly I do not give a shyt either. Fact is he is a real person who plays live poker - he is obviously skilled and is doing something right.

Interesting fact: as a perfessional for quite some time I have found that the dudes that humble up (know where there skill set lies - in other words don't need to pull their dick out and play in the biggest game) seem to last the longest. WJ is stomping the crap out of 1/2 and is pretty happy doing what he is doing. He is playing essentially variance free pokerz to the tune of a very strong w/r that is virtually stress free due to the lack of downward pressure. Sounds like a pretty chill way to crank out a side income

Keep killing it my man.

stop by and say hi next time you are at the v.
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Old 03-26-2014, 05:31 PM   #6838
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by squid face View Post
I have played with wj94 at the venetian. we gambooled at 2/5 together

I can say this much - he knows his way around a poker table. I can not verify his w/r at 1/2 and honestly I do not give a shyt either. Fact is he is a real person who plays live poker - he is obviously skilled and is doing something right.

Interesting fact: as a perfessional for quite some time I have found that the dudes that humble up (know where there skill set lies - in other words don't need to pull their dick out and play in the biggest game) seem to last the longest. WJ is stomping the crap out of 1/2 and is pretty happy doing what he is doing. He is playing essentially variance free pokerz to the tune of a very strong w/r that is virtually stress free due to the lack of downward pressure. Sounds like a pretty chill way to crank out a side income

Keep killing it my man.

stop by and say hi next time you are at the v.
+1

This character assassination on wj was making me cringe.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:04 PM   #6839
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wj94 plays at RR, and I would bet he crushes. I can't vouch for his w/r. I don't watch him like a hawk or keep track of his stats but he is clearly a winner and 1 of the better and more feared 1/2 players from listening to the reg fish banter.

wj we've played together, you know who I am. I play quite a bit at RR and my 1-2 winrate there is very strong. I play there for the same reasons as him, convenience. It is the closest casino to my house, and it is smack dab between my house and my girls.

There are usually 3-6 1/2 games running which is enough for me.

Also the RR is located in an affluent suburban area of Vegas with a lot of money in that area. A lot of old money too. It is not a small casino. It is probably the biggest casino off the strip and it's actually nicer than some of the strip properties.

There are some large losers that do consistently come back. Also some tougher grinders who are definitely winning players, so everything he says adds up to me.

Looking at bravo right now the V only has 1 more table going than RR. 12 to 11.

So take all of that for what it's worth

Last edited by jsmo0th10; 03-26-2014 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:09 PM   #6840
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:15 PM   #6841
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Did not try to attack anyone, just asked questions because they don't seem to make sense to me.

For example, RR has 11 tables running, but 6 of them are small limit games, which don't really support the notion that there are a lot of big pocket losers.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:18 PM   #6842
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Originally Posted by jsmo0th10 View Post
wj94 plays at RR, and I would bet he crushes. I can't vouch for his w/r. I don't watch him like a hawk or keep track of his stats but he is clearly a winner and 1 of the better and more feared 1/2 players from listening to the reg fish banter.

wj we've played together, you know who I am. I play quite a bit at RR and my 1-2 winrate there is very strong. I play there for the same reasons as him, convenience. It is the closest casino to my house, and it is smack dab between my house and my girls.

There are usually 3-6 1/2 games running which is enough for me.

Also the RR is located in an affluent suburban area of Vegas with a lot of money in that area. A lot of old money too. It is not a small casino. It is probably the biggest casino off the strip and it's actually nicer than some of the strip properties.

There are some large losers that do consistently come back. Also some tougher grinders who are definitely winning players, so everything he says adds up to me.

Looking at bravo right now the V only has 1 more table going than RR. 12 to 11.

So take all of that for what it's worth
If you play at RR regularly I'm sure I've played with you before....but not quite sure who you are. PM me?
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Old 03-27-2014, 02:44 AM   #6843
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Interesting fact: as a perfessional for quite some time I have found that the dudes that humble up (know where there skill set lies - in other words don't need to pull their dick out and play in the biggest game) seem to last the longest.
For me, this is at least one little drop of water in the desert--since you consistently tell people:

1. how hard the poker life is
2. how keeping it up for 30 years is crazytalk (for virtually everyone)
3. how many amazingly winning players you've seen who still end up quitting because they can't handle it
4. that you'll take the time to talk some sense into anyone who goes to Vegas and cares to listen.

Major props for being a long-time player and saying these things. Being realistic is extremely important, and it's amazing that you are so willing to offer your time. It's just nice to know that there are qualities that you note in players who end up lasting...and I have at least *one* of them.

Quote:
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If you play at RR regularly I'm sure I've played with you before....but not quite sure who you are. PM me?
Or, better yet, tell a confirming story here about a hand that will establish it, without giving away any identities to anyone else. Much more interesting for the thread.

Last edited by corlath; 03-27-2014 at 02:52 AM.
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Old 03-27-2014, 03:16 AM   #6844
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by squid face View Post
I have played with wj94 at the venetian. we gambooled at 2/5 together

I can say this much - he knows his way around a poker table. I can not verify his w/r at 1/2 and honestly I do not give a shyt either. Fact is he is a real person who plays live poker - he is obviously skilled and is doing something right.

Interesting fact: as a perfessional for quite some time I have found that the dudes that humble up (know where there skill set lies - in other words don't need to pull their dick out and play in the biggest game) seem to last the longest. WJ is stomping the crap out of 1/2 and is pretty happy doing what he is doing. He is playing essentially variance free pokerz to the tune of a very strong w/r that is virtually stress free due to the lack of downward pressure. Sounds like a pretty chill way to crank out a side income

Keep killing it my man.

stop by and say hi next time you are at the v.
this is pretty much what i'm banking future success on.

i don't care if i'm the best player at the table or if i get bluffed. i'm going to be there to make $ and pay bills.

if i never play higher than $1/$3 the rest of my life, my ego isn't going to be bruised.

will i play higher? probably at some point i will at least sit at another $2/$5 game. but first i want to win $ and be able to pay all my bills, take a vacation and buy nice things for people i want to
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Old 03-27-2014, 03:41 AM   #6845
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Things I remember from playing with WJ at RR:

1. One of the loud regs immediately commented on his presence when he sat down. Something to the effect of, "Don't give this guy any action. He shouldn't be playing in a game with civilians."

2. His first hand he raised J8dd, turned a flush and got a middle aged Asian player to stack off for 130bbs.

3. He overlimped/3b from MP against a button raise once. Button folded but middle aged Asian player from above hand called from BB and flopped an NFD.

4. In general was a more aggressive player than one normally encounters at 1/2. I think the regs tend to see him as crazy/without a fold button even though he can actually make lay downs.

5. Wore a t shirt that referred to skateboarding. Possible that some older regs at RR get tilted by this and his black headphones.
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Old 03-27-2014, 03:43 AM   #6846
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Lol old people always tilted by skateboarders

And cops too
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Old 03-27-2014, 03:50 AM   #6847
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Other thing I'd say regarding RR: it can be nittiness/spewfest depending on the time of day. And depending on who is temp banned. They have a few trust fund types who are really bad aggressive players that tend to come out at night.
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Old 03-27-2014, 04:35 AM   #6848
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if i never play higher than $1/$3 the rest of my life, my ego isn't going to be bruised.
^ This. Although I wouldn't say that I'm *banking* success on humility alone--it is clearly only one of many qualities necessary to be successful at poker. But I'm definitely humble. I have no desire to move up in stakes unless I feel like I can already crush 1/2 and 1/3 in a variety of environments for at least 30 hours a week, and I am far from that goal.

And the "baller" lifestyle really doesn't appeal to me. Just seems like a waste of money, as nice as it looks.
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Old 03-27-2014, 05:09 AM   #6849
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Originally Posted by Axel Foley View Post
Things I remember from playing with WJ at RR:

1. One of the loud regs immediately commented on his presence when he sat down. Something to the effect of, "Don't give this guy any action. He shouldn't be playing in a game with civilians."
lol, that would be Ken
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Old 03-27-2014, 06:12 AM   #6850
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I wish I had downloaded a better poker app, but I'm not paying for two.

Played a lot more then last year so far, but still only at ~110 hours this year. Play has been split about 60% 1/2, 30% 2/5 and 10% 1/2 PLO (we either have a mandatory straddle or a $5 bring in). All of these games are able to be bought in for 200bb deep and almost every reg does.

I had a pretty awful week at 2/5 being card dead and not getting any good spots vs the whales, so that's brought my hourly down to $55 for the year between the games.

For this small sample, my hourly splits and overall would be insane if not for how poorly I've run at PLO, in which we regularly have 3+ people join the game deep having no concept how to play PLO and are playing it for their first few handfuls of times. Wouldn't be shocked if I was down something like $3k in all in ev in the last three weeks there.

67/hr at 1/2 over the tiny sample size of 70 hours, 85/hr at 2/5 which I've tried to play as much as possible since I found it it ran last month. Only 30 hours in that game, but it's a great game. The main problem being it never gets going until 9-10 at night with the casino closing at 3. The -65/hr at PLO isn't helping though and the only black spot.

I table select at 1/2 pretty hard, but there is only ever (with rare exception) one table of 2/5 or PLO going, and neither runs every night. I honestly think 20bb is sustainable long term with proper table selection in both of these games, maybe ~40+ for PLO, but I'll never get a proper sample in that game. (Basically follow the after tournament fish as they tilt off even more money).
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